DENON 3801 OWNERS-NEED HELP !

[T2K]

Here is what I have and here is what I'm working toward.I am primarily interested in music with some HT interest.KSP300's in front

and rear corners,C7 center,SW12II sub,and S6

surrounds.I have SonyES reciever used as preamp for Acurus power.I listen to music in

direct mode with no processing.I will soon upgrade? reciever to Denon 3801.I want to know this- will this reciever,in 5 or 7 channel stereo mode, run the 4 300's,the C7,

and the S6's in a "direct" fashion with no processing?My present reciever cuts off the center in direct mode, which is not terribly important, but the option would be nice.

Basically I want to run all the speakers in direct mode for music and simply switch to surround for HT.Any input is appreciated.

Keith

Keith

[Guest BobG]

I must not be understanding the question Keith, because in Direct mode, all you'll get is 2 main speakers and a sub (assuming the sub is not connected to a LFE output). To get additional channels, you Must have processing circuitry operating. This is true with all electronics as long as the source material is 2 channel.

[RossVTaylor]

Keith,

I'm with BobG on this one. I've got the brother of the 3801 - in Direct mode, you just have the left and right front speakers, plus the subwoofer if you choose to use it. To run any other speakers, you need to use some DSP setting like DTS:NEO, 5/7-channel stereo, or similar.

Ross

[T2K]

Thanks for the info BobG.Lets say I connect my front speaker pair to the "A" speaker posts of my reciever and my rear speaker pair

to the "B" speaker posts of my reciever.I then flip speaker selector switch on front panel to "A+B" and use direct mode and get an

unprocessed stereo signal to the four corners

of my room.To my ears this sound is superior to any processed mode available to me even though my reciever is adjustable nine ways to heck.This could also be accomplished by using left and right preouts on reciever to a

line level amplifier to several power amplifers (preferably Acurus) to multiple speaker pairs.You could possibly have a room full of Klipsch speakers powered by several

Acurus amplifiers running a direct stereo signal.As my brother-in-law said over the week-end,"how many speakers do you want.This sounds better than Joe-Bobs Definitive set-up".If set up correctly,I could then flip the

A+B switch on reciever to A to power the front speaker pair only and go to the surround processing for HT.Anyway, that is what I have and was trying to duplicate with a new DD reciever.The set-up,in practice, was

much easier that the explanation here.Hope everyone understands the goal and contributes.Thanks,

Keith

[T2K]

RossVTaylor,

Thanks for the info.You hit on

question exactly.In your reply you touched on

"5/7 channel stereo".How is that set up in the Denon product.Does it include processing and what is your opinion of the sound you get

for music? Thanks,

Keith

[dougdrake]

TTK - I have a 3300, which handles the 5-ch stereo in the same way as the 3801 (I believe). It processes the stereo signal and creates 5 channels out of stereo, sharing the music among the 5 speakers (front, center, and rear). It is definitely not in "direct" mode when it is doing that.

I think, but I could be wrong as I have not used this function, that the A/B speaker is used on the rear speakers, and allows you to use a different set of rear speakers for HT than the set you would use for 5 ch stereo (for example, your S6s for HT and another pair of KSP300's for music). I believe that you can still only steer the rear channels to speakers with the A/B. I don't think you can direct the main stereo signal to the A/B switch.

Doug

[T2K]

dougdrake,

thanks for the info.Have you tried

this 5 channel stereo on your Denon?I know you also prefer the "direct" or unprocessed

sound.If so, what did you think?I'm beginning

to think that my current set-up is exactly what I need.Guess that's why I've got it.I simply wanted to send a stereo signal to multiple speaker pairs and have the option to

switch to HT use easily.I've yet to hear a preprogrammed mode that I like for music.

Now I think I'll just add a few more speakers

and another amp or two.Hmmmm, maybe 200 WPC.

[dougdrake]

I have mixed thoughts on the 5-channel stereo. It is a nice effect when you are relaxing and just want to be surrounded by sound. But for serious music listening, I switch back to 2-channel. It seems to have more punch than the 5-channel.

[Steve Phillips]

talktoKeith,sorry for the late reply.

You could do what you are thinking,all 4 corners to A+B and run "Direct"mod.The 3801 amps will handle the load.

I guess if I hade 4 K-Horns I'd try it just to hear for fun.

Ya,add some power,makes a difference in low level detail.

------------------

My Home Theater:

'77 Klipschorn L&R w/ALK's

'75 Heresy center,modified with,K-Horn sqauwker & AA network.

KSP-S6 at sides

2 IW-150s rear.

Denon AVR-3801

2 Denon POA-2800 200X2

1 driving the Horns

1 driving the bi-wired Heresy center.

All speakers set to"large".

2 DIY 12"4ohm subs,one in each corner(behind the Horns false walls)Carver A500x 400 watts per ch.feed.

1 12" powered sub(behind the couch)feed from the surrounds pre-outs.

Sony DVP-C650D.

Dish Echostar 4700 w/DD

JVC S7600U S-VHS

Pioneer CDL-D501 laser

Music in "Direct"only!

DH Labs T-14 speaker wire to the front 3.

Horns & Heresy bi-wired using Monster XPHP for the bass.

Stinger Queen interconnects.

[Steve Phillips]

OOPS!

Just noticed that my 3801 doesn't have A&B speaker outs for the mains.

Guess that's out.My 2800 had them.

The DTS Neo:M(the Neo music mod)is rather interesting.(I don't use it much)It directs the music to the L&R mains with a little going to the center for fill and directs some to the surround speaker you have turned on.Sounds better to me than 5/7 channel stereo.IMHO

[T2K]

dougdrake,

Thanks for remembering.Hey,been up

in the attic today looking thru the last eight years of Stereo Review and others and found review of Denon 3300.Also found some ad copy that was interesting for both 3801 &

3300.Can't remember the exact explanation of

the music modes and switching(got to reading

old Klipsch reviews)but the info was promising for my wishes.When I get time will

reread and post what was, I think, what you are referring to.Remember something about the hookup hhmmmm:confused .........Keith

[RWMIN]

I just glanced through the thread so I hope I'm not off here.

I have the Denon 3300 and in 5 ch stereo it sounds just like 2 ch with a slight loss of oomph(power). This is nothing that a little extra volume doesn't correct. I honestly can't tell the difference between 2 ch stereo and direct mode. Based on that, I would say that 5 ch stereo sounds like direct mode just from all 5 channels. I think that 5 ch stereo and 5 Legends with a Velodyne HGS 12 can provide a knock your house down effect. You are totally enveloped in sound with incredible clarity and power that is easily FELT! When you want to be able to hear yourself think, 2 ch is best but if you want to do some serious playing 5 ch is the only way to go, IMO.

As far as A/B speakers goes on the Denon 3300 you only have A/B REARS only. I have my WDST for B rears and my KLF 10's on A rears and during anything, at anytime, you can turn on all rears or just one pair. This is a nice feature on the Denon as it does provide an easy way to toggle back and forth for whatever the desired effect is.

[T2K]

WOW! RWMIN, for the fast read you certainly got a good grasp on my question.That is exactly what I wanted to know.I originally thought of the 3801 for the reciever upgrade but lately I've thought more about the 3300.Does't the 3300 have the cooling fan?

What are your thoughts on that(noisy?).Anyway

what I want to do is exactly as you described

for music(I love da music).I have 4- KSP300's

in the four corners with a KSFC5 center(got a C7 for a spare)and KSPS6 surrounds.Also have an SW12II sub.What I would like is the option to run all of the above for music.I understand the loss in volume you speak of when switching to 5 channel (processor),but

wanted to be sure to get full range signal to

all speakers,as I get now with line level signal to separate amps.As far as the serious

music listening goes I LOVE DA MUSIC.Did I mention that?Anywho, I appreciate everyone's

input on the matter.BTW RWMIN,what is your take on the Denon sound(read coloration)with

your Legends as opposed to any other brand electronics you've used with them,if any?Thanks, Keith

[wireless]

In my recent experience:

1) 5 channel sounds better than 2. To have a better sound you need full-range speakers on the surrounds. If you don't have full range then of course some of the ooomfh is not there. 5-channel definitely puts more sound there; it fills up the room better.

2) The Denon has a "thinner" sound than a Marantz. I would say there was little to no "coloration" from the Denon. The Denon has a clear, transparent sound. The Marantz has a fuller, warmer sound but I wouldn't call it colored. I had an avr-4800 for a month or two and returned it for an SR-8000. I like the Marantz a lot better.

-David

[T2K]

"For heightened surround sound music listening enjoyment from stereo program material,the AVR-3801 includes Denon's exclusive 7-Channel Stereo and 5-Channel Stereo modes.In 7-channel stereo mode,all three sets of left and right speakers(front,rear and surround back)reproduce a full fidelity unprocessed stereo and the center channel provides an L+R blend.This feature enables listeners to enjoy music reproduction from all the speakers in a seven-channel multichannel home entertainment system rather than from only the two left and right front speakers,but without the artificially created ambience and reverberant colorations of other soundfield simulation systems.The AVR-3801 also includes a 5-Channel Stereo mode,ideal for use in 5.1 channel home entertainment systems,in which both sets of left and right speakers(front and rear)reproduce full-bandwith stereo and the center channel provides a mixture of left and right front signal." Keith

[dougdrake]

TTK - Another 3300 owner weighing in here. Yes, it does have a cooling fan. Sometimes I hear it power up when there is some heavy musical action going on, but very seldom do I notice it. It is microprocessor controlled, and slows down to be less audible during quiet passages.

Doug

[T2K]

Thanks Doug,

finally found the quote above on the Denon website.Finally got the answer with

everyone's help and Denon's website.Guess i'll go with the 3801 unless I find a steal on a 3300.No hurry,I stay about three

moves ahead of myself, like to think about it and save myself any surprises.Boy,I can hear it now!

Keith

[RWMIN]

I wonder if the 3801's 7 ch stereo is the same as the Denon 3300 5 ch stereo with both sets of rears on? Anybody?

As for the cooling fan, Yes I have heard it but only once. When I first got the unit I did not follow manufacture recommendations for spacing beside or above the unit. I placed it in an enclosed entertainment center and after a couple hours of movies I opened the glass door to turn the unit off and I clearly heard the fan. The fan is supposed to run at a slow speed, when needed, at low volumes and a higher speed at higher volumes so you should never hear it unless the unit just gets too hot. I lowered the shelf to provide better air flow on top of the unit and I removed the back of my entertainment center just behind the unit and I have not heard a whisper since.

How does it sound compared to other units? Well, I don't have much valuble info there as I only really compared it to a Yamaha 795. I think the Yamaha had more bass but the Denon was clearer and had 5 ch stereo that just thumped. The Yamaha also had A LOT of DSP stuff that was just confusing and unused. I have had several friends and family members over and EVERYONE of them has said how CLEAR the sound is from my stereo. I take that as a huge compliment!

I have read several posts regarding the lack of build quality on the 3300 compared to earlier models like the 3600 and 5700. I have read no such thing about the Denon 3801 to date. This may provide helpful in making your decision. I have also ONLY seen good things written about the superb quality of the Marantz units. I would recon that if I did it all again, or upgraded, I would make an effort to compare those units and if possible Yamaha, Onkyo and Outlaw.

I am, NO audiophile and I have little experience or knowledge about the many differences in the many units and techno info available but I can say that I am very pleased with my current setup.

Now on to a glass of wine and some music!

[Bluesteel]

Roger that RWMIN!

TTK, I've got a Denon AVR 3300. I thought about the 3801 but I couldn't tell if it has a tape monitor switch to remotely activate an equalizer. All the electronics are sealed in an entertainment center that hides any noise, which I've yet to hear anyway. A friend's 3300 use to make noise until he got some Forte II's. Maybe it liked that load better than his B&W's. I guess you've read all those posts on AudioReview.com so it's kind of a shot in the dark.

My Receiver is driving 3 Chorus II's (main and center) and 2 Forte II's sitting next to the mains. With all the speakers set to "Large" on the Receiver, and five 15" passive radiators thumping one wall, there's not much need for a sub. I may try some RS-3's for movie surrounds later, and its hard to tell in the showroom, but they have not impressed me. However, for music, I find it very distracting to hear things like percussion instruments coming anywhere but from the front. Using the Receiver's A/B surround switch, I can change from 2-channel, to 3-channel, to a full sounding 5-channel.

Of course its a matter of taste, but for my money, a lot of that surround stuff is a gimmick.