Heresy center on it's side?

[theplummer]

That almost all speakers made are longer vertically than their horizontal width is no accident. The horizontally-oriented center channel speaker that is all too common today is simply a compromise (and a bad one, at that) for users who either don't have the space to orient a center channel speaker vertically or don't like the appearance of a vertically oriented center channel speaker.

I totally agree, but what do you do? If you have a speaker as tall as a Chorus or Khorn, you'd have to place your seats on a 12" pedestal in order to orient your viewing height correctly, then the other thing, the looks. A tall speaker standing under or worse, on top of the television looks rediculous, according to the WAF, ( I tend to agree). At least a re-think on this Heratige center thing that's hot on everyones mind, I just think a little more thought should be put into actual use.

You either place the speaker on the floor, identically to the front left and right speakers, and position the TV or screen above the center speaker, or, if you place the speaker above the TV or screen, you can flip it over, upside-down, to place the mid/tweets closer to ear level. I never really understood why a speaker like a huge La Scala, when placed on it's side, made it any more aesthetically acceptable than simply orienting the monster vertically. []

Consumers (and their wives) need to be re-trained into accepting a vertically-oriented center speaker. [:|] [] []

ANY horizontally-oriented center speaker is a compromise, however there are ways to design them better to overcome many of the short-comings of the majority of the horizontally-oriented center channel speakers that are available.

Horizontally-oriented MTM speakers (midwoofer-tweeter-midwoofer; the design that the majority of horizontal center channel speakers exhibit) suffer from "lobing", which is, basically, an interference phenomenon caused by adjacent placement of two identical drivers that are producing acoustically identical output. The result of lobing, with respect to the horizontal mid-woofer to mid-woofer distance and arrangement encountered in MTM center channels, is a dip in horizontal, off-axis midrange frequency response. Since most dialogue relies heavily upon midrange frequencies for reproduction of human voices, a midrange dip is exactly what you don't want from a center-channel speaker.

There ARE several horizontally oriented speaker designs that attempt to alleviate the problems associated with horizontally-oriented center channel speakers; both the dispersion issue and the lobing issue. Horizontal MTMs are usually designed with a lower crossover point between the midwoofers and tweeter, so that the single tweeter produces some of the midrange content that would normally be cancelled due to lobing. Sometimes an offset tweeter design is used which allows for closer spacing of the 2 midwoofers, which helps reduce, but not eliminate, the lobing effect. Another common method used in horizontal center speakers to reduce lobing is to simply add a midrange driver, arranged vertically with a tweeter, both located between the two midwoofers; the so-called WTMW design. This is probably the design that a specifically-designed Heritage center channel speaker would exhibit. But none of these designs can completely eliminate the vertical dispersion issues.

That's why I'm so HOT on using a Chorus on its side, with the Mid/tweet horns relocated to the center of the speaker with them rotated 90 degrees. I feel that the shape of the speaker is conducive to current market trends, and the fact that the mid horn will handle most, if not all, of the human voices, this eliminates the lobing.

I wonder though, what if instead of Woofer, Mid/tweet, Woofer - a passive could be incorporated, Woofer, Mid/Tweet, Passive configuration. If this was implemented, a Chorus II could be used, I think the existing 15" woofer and Passive may work there. You'd have to plug the passive hole on the back and place it on one side of he speaker with the woofer on the other. This might work as the mid horn is a Tractrix style (Narrower than the conventional 90X40 exponential horn. This would also eliminate trying to modify the crossover.

In the end, a vertically-oriented speaker is still the best design for not only the front left and right stereo pairs, but also for the center channel speaker. A horizontally-oriented center-channel speaker, no matter the design, is not ideal. It is purely a compromise.

[sivadselim]

That's why I'm so HOT on using a Chorus on its side, with the Mid/tweet horns relocated to the center of the speaker with them rotated 90 degrees. I feel that the shape of the speaker is conducive to current market trends, and the fact that the mid horn will handle most, if not all, of the human voices, this eliminates the lobing. I wonder though, what if instead of Woofer, Mid/tweet, Woofer - a passive could be incorporated, Woofer, Mid/Tweet, Passive configuration. If this was implemented, a Chorus II could be used, I think the existing 15" woofer and Passive may work there. You'd have to plug the passive hole on the back and place it on one side of he speaker with the woofer on the other. This might work as the mid horn is a Tractrix style (Narrower than the conventional 90X40 exponential horn. This would also eliminate trying to modify the crossover.

I'm not sure why this would be better than your aforementioned Chorus design, unless you are trying to use a single central horn and use a passive to eliminate any lobing issues that you may have with 2 identical woofers straddling the horn. Honestly, I'm not sure where the Tractix horn is normally crossed in relative to a conventional tweeter on the Reference centers. I think it is crossed in lower already, so it may handle enough of the midrange to make lobing from the mid-woofers less of an issue. However, except to make the speaker slimmer, vertically, by using two smaller drivers, whether it's two woofers or a woofer and a passive, there really is no reason to use two drivers. One is plenty. Again, the "vertical Cornwall" design, although still not as slim in appearance as most horizontally-oriented center channel speakers, is probably the best. Your similar "horizontally-oriented Chorus" design, would actually appear more like a conventional center channel speaker.

[theplummer]

That's why I'm so HOT on using a Chorus on its side, with the Mid/tweet horns relocated to the center of the speaker with them rotated 90 degrees. I feel that the shape of the speaker is conducive to current market trends, and the fact that the mid horn will handle most, if not all, of the human voices, this eliminates the lobing. I wonder though, what if instead of Woofer, Mid/tweet, Woofer - a passive could be incorporated, Woofer, Mid/Tweet, Passive configuration. If this was implemented, a Chorus II could be used, I think the existing 15" woofer and Passive may work there. You'd have to plug the passive hole on the back and place it on one side of he speaker with the woofer on the other. This might work as the mid horn is a Tractrix style (Narrower than the conventional 90X40 exponential horn. This would also eliminate trying to modify the crossover.

I'm not sure why this would be better than your aforementioned Chorus design, unless you are trying to use a single central horn and use a passive to eliminate any lobing issues that you may have with 2 identical woofers straddling the horn. Honestly, I'm not sure where the Tractix horn is normally crossed in relative to a conventional tweeter on the Reference centers. I think it is crossed in lower already, so it may handle enough of the midrange to make lobing from the mid-woofers less of an issue. However, except to make the speaker slimmer, vertically, by using two smaller drivers, whether it's two woofers or a woofer and a passive, there really is no reason to use two drivers. One is plenty. Again, the "vertical Cornwall" design, although still not as slim in appearance as most horizontally-oriented center channel speakers, is probably the best. Your similar "horizontally-oriented Chorus" design, would actually appear more like a conventional center channel speaker.

Well, the main thought behind using a Chorus II instead of the Chorus I is nothing more than making it fit. I've done extensive measuring and found that the only way to get two 12" woofers and the conventional Mid horn to fit in a Chorus cabinet is to shove the mid horn to the bottom of the speaker to allow the radius of the woofers to pass by the mid horn (its that close), there's no way a pair of 15"s would fit. The Chorus II mid horn is narrower and taller, if the mid horn is shoved to the bottom of the cabinet (laying on its side), maybe the original 15" woofer and 15" passive would fit. I don't know, as I don't have a Chorus II to take some measurements.

I'm not sure if the forward firing PR would help eliminate or reduce the Lobing, (I'd defer to the experts here), but I do know that if a PR were front firing, this would make the speaker less location specific on installation, as there would be no issues with installing the speaker inside a large entertainment center, and to bonus there's no more parts swapping going on and no modifications to the crossover.

My only question now is, if this would work, how would a Chorus II voice with a regular Chorus.

[oldtimer]

I don't want to try to cut it up to make a "vertical heresy".

[:^)] Don't you mean a "horizontal Heresy"?

A heresy on it's side would sound better than anything except another Cornwall , try it you will not be sorry.

[:S] It won't sound better than a properly oriented (vertical) Heresy.

.............I think Klipsch could sell a TON of vertical Heresys...

.................it seems as if a customer should be able to custom order vertical versions....

Everyone keeps begging for Klipsch to make a Vertical Heresy, ............................ Say re-introducing the vertical Cornwall, or better yet a Vertical Chorus.

[*-)] HORIZONTAL!

A vertical Heresy would look nicer though.

[] That IS a vertical Heresy!

The Heresy was specifically designed to disperse sound properly in the horizontal plane when it is used as intended; vertically. If you turn it on it's side, it disperses much of its sound toward the ceiling and floor with a very narrow horizontal dispersion window. This is exactly what you DO NOT WANT from your center channel speaker. Unnecessary reflections off the ceiling and floor can alter a speaker's clarity significantly. This is particularly unwanted with a center channel speaker, which is responsible for almost all of a movie's dialogue. And unless you watch movies alone and always sit in the "sweet spot", what you want from your center channel speaker is wide horizontal dispersion so that the dialogue can be heard clearly from anywhere someone may sit in the room.

With both the Heresy and La Scala, the speaker's width is not much different than it's height. If it just won't fit in your space vertically, that's one thing, but if it's at all possible, a vertical speaker used as a center channel speaker should be used as it was intended; vertically. In that posted picture, it appears that the horizontally-oriented "center speaker" will clearly fit in the same space if it was oriented vertically. Tilting it down toward the listening spot can be useful and it can also be turned upside down if it's mounted high above ear level.

Ok, I think there is a mis understanding here. The reason were calling these things Vertical Heresy, Corwall, Chorus is not how the speaker stands, but rather how the mid and tweeter horns are oriented in the speaker. Way back in the day,(first days of Cornwall, it was made either way, with the mid/tweeter horns mounted vertically in the cabinet, therefore came the name Vertical Cornwall.

No confusion here. I know exactly what vertical cornwall means. That's why when you turn it on it's side (to fit somewhere) the horns are back to horizontal relative to the horizon for optimal dispersion.

[sivadselim]

Well, the main thought behind using a Chorus II instead of the Chorus I is nothing more than making it fit. I've done extensive measuring and found that the only way to get two 12" woofers and the conventional Mid horn to fit in a Chorus cabinet is to shove the mid horn to the bottom of the speaker to allow the radius of the woofers to pass by the mid horn (its that close), there's no way a pair of 15"s would fit. The Chorus II mid horn is narrower and taller, if the mid horn is shoved to the bottom of the cabinet (laying on its side), maybe the original 15" woofer and 15" passive would fit. I don't know, as I don't have a Chorus II to take some measurements.

Assymetrically locating the horn and pushing the drivers closer together actually reduces the lobing problem. But why must this hypothetical speaker have two drivers? One will work fine. A Chorus with the woofer simply moved down (which would be over to the side if horizontally oriented) and with the horns rotated 90degrees would work just fine.

I'm not sure if the forward firing PR would help eliminate or reduce the Lobing, (I'd defer to the experts here), but I do know that if a PR were front firing, this would make the speaker less location specific on installation, as there would be no issues with installing the speaker inside a large entertainment center, and to bonus there's no more parts swapping going on and no modifications to the crossover.

I thought that by using the PR in the place of one of the woofers you were trying to eliminate having two horizontally-oriented (mid)woofers producing identical output (the cause of lobing). I thought you were proposing a single-horned speaker much like the current Reference centers, but with one driver being a PR. But why do you even need the PR? A single-woofered center channel speaker would be fine.

In looking at the current Reference center offerings, I noticed that the 2 woofers operate such that they both cover the low-end of things, but only one operates over the mid-range frequencies, thereby reducing (or eliminating) the lobing effect.

[sivadselim]

No confusion here. I know exactly what vertical cornwall means. That's why when you turn it on it's side (to fit somewhere) the horns are back to horizontal relative to the horizon for optimal dispersion.

But you don't "turn it on it's side". You use it exactly the way it was intended, right? Am I missing something here? The "vertical Cornwall" when used with the horns oriented horizontally (as I presume it was intended) is wider than it is tall, correct?

As per THIS discussion, the speaker was actually meant to be a "horizontal Cornwall" with the horns rotated 90 degrees, the woofer repositioned, and meant to be oriented such that the horns WERE horizontal. However, per that discussion, as well, it says that many found the speaker to sound better in a vertical orientation, so does this imply that a "standard" Cornwall turned on it's side for center channel use (which would orient the horns vertically, as well) may also sound better?

Anyway, it is very obvious from that thread that there IS quite a bit of confusion regarding not only the nomenclature but the actual usage of the "vertical Cornwall".

OMG, after reading that thread, I'm really COMFUZED!!!!! [:|] Seems I'm not alone.

[sivadselim]

The last paragraph is quite telling, but apparently, is not at all definitive. [:S]

[kkerley33]

Sorry PC problems

[kkerley33]

Here is my thought on this whole Heritage Center Channel thing,

IN HT set-ups, most systems send the bass below a certain frequency to the Sub and or Subs.

I think klipsch should produce a Heritage Center Channel and Call it the Heritage Center.....

In my mind this could be done using the Mids and High ends from a Heresy and smaller low end drivers (maybe two 6 inch) This would allow for a wider footprint, limited low end and would meet the needs of present HT set-ups. In fact, I would even be willing to make a prototype for them LOL, though I am sure Trey would have much more fun LOL.

The Tweeter and Mid range would be placed in the middle with the two 6 Inch Drivers to the outside. The cabinet would probably be about 36 inches wide, but I don't think that is much wider than some of the current Reference CC's now.

KAK

[theplummer]

Well, the main thought behind using a Chorus II instead of the Chorus I is nothing more than making it fit. I've done extensive measuring and found that the only way to get two 12" woofers and the conventional Mid horn to fit in a Chorus cabinet is to shove the mid horn to the bottom of the speaker to allow the radius of the woofers to pass by the mid horn (its that close), there's no way a pair of 15"s would fit. The Chorus II mid horn is narrower and taller, if the mid horn is shoved to the bottom of the cabinet (laying on its side), maybe the original 15" woofer and 15" passive would fit. I don't know, as I don't have a Chorus II to take some measurements.

Assymetrically locating the horn and pushing the drivers closer together actually reduces the lobing problem. But why must this hypothetical speaker have two drivers? One will work fine. A Chorus with the woofer simply moved down (which would be over to the side if horizontally oriented) and with the horns rotated 90degrees would work just fine.

I believe that by "Assymetrically locating the horn", you mean leaving the horns on one side or the other would be OK. Am I right? If so, I believe that due to the fact that higher frequencies are so very directional, you'd be able to tell that the speaker is not exactly centered in the screen, That'd be like trying to ride a bicycle with the handlebars cocked to one side of the front wheel. I think that'd be awkward. I agree that two woofers would not be necessary, but I was afraid that because a 15" woofer would not fit, when the mid horn is centered in the speaker, I'd reduce the size of the woofer to 12" to fit, therefore reducing the output. The second 12" woofer would be to compensate for the lack of surface area. I know two 12"s would have more surface area than one 15", but I figured that more in the center would be better anyway (as the center is the most important speaker in the entire system)

On this same subject, I've seen some commercial Heresy moniters that have a rotatable upper motorboard so that the mid and tweeter could be rotated either way, but the horns are still not centered in the screen. I can't remember where I've seen one before, I think Colter has one. That'd be an easy answer for the Cornwall III conversion also.

I'm not sure if the forward firing PR would help eliminate or reduce the Lobing, (I'd defer to the experts here), but I do know that if a PR were front firing, this would make the speaker less location specific on installation, as there would be no issues with installing the speaker inside a large entertainment center, and to bonus there's no more parts swapping going on and no modifications to the crossover.

I thought that by using the PR in the place of one of the woofers you were trying to eliminate having two horizontally-oriented (mid)woofers producing identical output (the cause of lobing). I thought you were proposing a single-horned speaker much like the current Reference centers, but with one driver being a PR. But why do you even need the PR? A single-woofered center channel speaker would be fine.

In looking at the current Reference center offerings, I noticed that the 2 woofers operate such that they both cover the low-end of things, but only one operates over the mid-range frequencies, thereby reducing (or eliminating) the lobing effect.

[theplummer]

Here is my thought on this whole Heritage Center Channel thing,

IN HT set-ups, most systems send the bass below a certain frequency to the Sub and or Subs.

I think klipsch should produce a Heritage Center Channel and Call it the Heritage Center.....

In my mind this could be done using the Mids and High ends from a Heresy and smaller low end drivers (maybe two 6 inch) This would allow for a wider footprint, limited low end and would meet the needs of present HT set-ups. In fact, I would even be willing to make a prototype for them LOL, though I am sure Trey would have much more fun LOL.

The Tweeter and Mid range would be placed in the middle with the two 6 Inch Drivers to the outside. The cabinet would probably be about 36 inches wide, but I don't think that is much wider than some of the current Reference CC's now.

KAK

Your idea would be acceptable to me, except that the mid and tweeter from the Heresy is different from that of the Khorn and Lascalla. I would think using the same horns for those speakers would be more prudent.

Edit:

I'd Like to change my response here. I would not like smaller woofers. If so, I might as well stay with the Academy I already have. This is what prompted me to start thinking about modifying a Chorus in the first place.

I hate running my center channel in Small mode. It sounds terrible, there's a giant "Hole" in the soundstage unless a full range speaker is used.

[kkerley33]

There is nothing saying you can't use the mid and tweeter from the Khorn/LaScala... The box would need to be a little bit bigger.

I just measured my La Scala's. If you used Mid/Tweet from La Scala's including horn, you could then use 2 8 Inch Woofers on the "outsides" of the Mid/Tweet/Horn. The box would measure approximatly 42 Inches Wide, 11 Inches High and 25 Inches Deep. (could actually use it as a stand for Plasma/DLP tv's up to 54 inches and my TV stand for my 52 Inch DLP measure 44 x 24 (lol). Wonder if these would sell LOL.

The reason I mentioned using the Heresy Mids/Tweet/Horn and 6 inch Bass drivers was too keep the box considerably smaller... About 35 x 9 x 14 which would be close to the same size as the Current RC-64 Center Channel which is considered a large center channel speaker by my standards.

KAK

[kkerley33]

The Small vs Large setting is less dependant on the size of the Woofer and more dependant on its range. The RC-62's reach down to 57hz, while La Scala's only go down to 53 Hz. This is a matter of selecting the correct Bass Driver to use, not its actual size 6.5, 8,10,12,15 or whatever.

By selecting an 8 inch Bass driver that would reach down to 53hz and building the cabinet to produce it would produce the desired results you are looking for. Building the cabinet, insterting the drivers and crossover is not a problem, tuning the Cabinet to get the desired bass result (53hz basement) is.

[kkerley33]

Plummer,

Might I suggest using your Academy and changing the setting to Large Speaker. The Academey is by most standards a full range speaker. When you set a speaker to small, depending on the Pre/Pro or Receiver that you are using, you are setting your cut-off as high as 120HZ. Most manufacturers use a range of somewhere between 80 and 120 Hz for their small speaker setting. You are not even using your Current Academy to its potential which is 63HZ. Also unless you are using the Center for 5 Channel Stereo, you should not need much bass response below 63hz which is what the Academy is capable of as the Center Channel only produces Dialogue.

KAK

[sivadselim]

I believe that by "assymetrically locating the horn", you mean leaving the horns on one side or the other would be OK. Am I right?

No, that's not what I meant, there. I meant leaving it centrally located but having to move it toward the top (or bottom) of the horizontally-oriented speaker in which you are trying to place two woofers (or a woofer and a PR). The way YOU described having to move it.

But, yes, I AM proposing assymetrically locating the horns to either side of my hypothetical Heritage center - ala a Chorus modification that has a single, standard-sized Chorus woofer, if you will.

If so, I believe that due to the fact that higher frequencies are so very directional, you'd be able to tell that the speaker is not exactly centered in the screen.

No, you wouldn't. Not anymore than you can tell when a speaker is located above or below the screen. As long as it was close to the center of the screen, and not completely over to the side, it'd be unnoticable. Of course, you would design the speaker so that the horns were as close as possible to the center, but centering them is unnecessary.

There are people who, for whatever reason, have to position their traditionally designed center channel speaker assymetrically relative to their screen and it's not noticable. I had mine set up this way where I lived previously. Due to the layout of the room, I had to position my TV in a spot that was not directly centered between my front speakers. I had a choice of centering the center speaker on my TV screen or centering it between my front speakers. Because I listen to multichannel music (SACD/DVD-A) more than I watch movies, I chose the latter. I never noticed at all that the center was not centered on the TV screen when watching movies.

In other words, a "vertical Cornwall" (to use you guys terminology), works just fine as a center even though the horns are assymetrically located relative to the center of the screen when it is oriented horizontally. If the horns not being perfectly centered over the screen really "bothers" someone, they can easily move the entire speaker over in order to "center" the horns. But, again, this just isn't necessary.

HERE is a newly available center channel speaker that is identical to its front left and right counterparts save for the fact that the tweeter baffle has been rotated 90degrees. This design will work fine for a center. It is better than a corresponding dual-driver MTM would be, but still not as good as simply using an identical speaker to the left and right speakers, vertically.

I agree that two woofers would not be necessary, but I was afraid that because a 15" woofer would not fit, when the mid horn is centered in the speaker, I'd reduce the size of the woofer to 12" to fit, therefore reducing the output. The second 12" woofer would be to compensate for the lack of surface area.

Again, don't get too hung up on centering the horns; it's not necessary.

The second 12" woofer would be to compensate for the lack of surface area. I know two 12"s would have more surface area than one 15", but I figured that more in the center would be better anyway (as the center is the most important speaker in the entire system)

It's not necessary to "beef-up" the center channel speaker relative to the right and left speakers. If the front speakers are fine as a stereo pair, then a center channel speaker with the same driver compliment should be fine, as well. If you're trying to use 2 drivers as compensation for having to use a smaller driver, you're still trying to design a center channel speaker that's a compromise. There are many people here, as evidenced by the post that started this thread, who use a center channel speaker that has a woofer that's smaller than their front left and right speakers. But what I'm promoting as ideal is an absolutely identical center speaker, including orientation, to the front left and right speaker. This will provide for a perfectly seamless front soundstage. Of course, we wouldn't be discussing center channel speakers if that was possible for everyone to do.

On this same subject, I've seen some commercial Heresy moniters that have a rotatable upper motorboard so that the mid and tweeter could be rotated either way, but the horns are still not centered in the screen.

That'd work wonderfully. As I said, the horns need not be centered on the screen. However, very interestingly, in that thread about the "vertical Cornwall" it was noted that many people thought that the "vertical Cornwalls" sounded better when the were indeed vertically-oriented, with the horns vertical. Go figure.

[jpmgumdoc]

Well, I started all this with a simple question about turning a Heresy on it's side! I've got my original Cornwalls for R and L and Heresy I for center and rears and powered Klipsch sub. My 61" Samsung 1080p was delivered today and my top of the line Pioneer elite AV reciever and DVD are on the way as are Jolida tubes for 2 channel listening! All this to go in a presently unfinished but soon to be finished basement. My plan is to custom build the wall for the HT equipment that I can walk behind for ease of connections and allow me to slide the TV and Cornwalls and center Heresy into customized spaces so everything is flush across the frontplace and the center Heresy is in it's intended upright position! It will be awesome and I 'll post pcis when it's done.

Thanks for all the input!

John

[sivadselim]

Well, I started all this with a simple question about turning a Heresy on it's side! I've got my original Cornwalls for R and L and Heresy I for center and rears and powered Klipsch sub. My 61" Samsung 1080p was delivered today and my top of the line Pioneer elite AV reciever and DVD are on the way as are Jolida tubes for 2 channel listening! All this to go in a presently unfinished but soon to be finished basement. My plan is to custom build the wall for the HT equipment that I can walk behind for ease of connections and allow me to slide the TV and Cornwalls and center Heresy into customized spaces so everything is flush across the frontplace and the center Heresy is in it's intended upright position! It will be awesome and I 'll post pcis when it's done.

Thanks for all the input!

John

The only caveat I would add is that, depending upon exactly where this properly vertically-oriented Heresy is located in the vertical plane (that is, up or down), you may want to place it upside down in order to get its horns as close as possible to the horizontal line between your front left and right speakers' horns. []

[oldtimer]

No confusion here. I know exactly what vertical cornwall means. That's why when you turn it on it's side (to fit somewhere) the horns are back to horizontal relative to the horizon for optimal dispersion.

But you don't "turn it on it's side". You use it exactly the way it was intended, right? Am I missing something here? The "vertical Cornwall" when used with the horns oriented horizontally (as I presume it was intended) is wider than it is tall, correct?

As per THIS discussion, the speaker was actually meant to be a "horizontal Cornwall" with the horns rotated 90 degrees, the woofer repositioned, and meant to be oriented such that the horns WERE horizontal. However, per that discussion, as well, it says that many found the speaker to sound better in a vertical orientation, so does this imply that a "standard" Cornwall turned on it's side for center channel use (which would orient the horns vertically, as well) may also sound better?

Anyway, it is very obvious from that thread that there IS quite a bit of confusion regarding not only the nomenclature but the actual usage of the "vertical Cornwall".

OMG, after reading that thread, I'm really COMFUZED!!!!! [:|] Seems I'm not alone.

No gashdarnit consnabit!

Lets start with a normal cornwall. It has a woofer on the bottom, then above it a mid-range horn and a tweeter horn arranged horizontally. You know wider than higher. The speaker would normally sit on the floor this way. Now, take the vertical cornwall, which, if, it were set up the same way with the woofer on the bottom, would have a mid-range horn and a tweeter horn mounted vertically. Higher than it is wide, as it sits. OK? Now, the whole reason why this is cool for the HT person, is that when you turn this vertical cornwall on it's side (because it is not as tall this way) that the mid-range horn and the tweeter horn are now back to their horizontal orientation just as if the normal cornwall speaker were standing there. Is this clear?

That's why it would be cool to be able to custom order a speaker this way to have a matching center.

[sivadselim]

I'd Like to change my response here. I would not like smaller woofers. If so, I might as well stay with the Academy I already have. This is what prompted me to start thinking about modifying a Chorus in the first place.

And I'm saying that that is a perfectly feasible idea. Simply move the woofer so that you can rotate the horns 90degrees and voila!, you'd have a center channel speaker. No need to add another driver. As I discussed in my response above, the assymetrically located horns would not be noticable. Quit trying to add a second driver and center the horns. The "vertical Cornwall", oriented horizontally (with the horns horizontal), makes an almost perfect center channel speaker for a pair of Cornwalls (not "vertical Cornwalls", just Cornwalls). Of course, the perfect center for a pair of Cornwalls (not "vertical cornwalls, just Cornwalls) would be a third identical Cornwall. Which is why I wondered why, in the case of a Cornwall (not "vertical Cornwall", just a Cornwall), La Scala, or Heresy (speakers which already have a pretty wide profile) someone would lay them on their side for center use if they had the space to orient it vertically. They really don't look too much different, aesthetically, when laid on their sides. It's a big honkin' speaker up there either way. []

[oldtimer]

Cornwalls are not square. The whole point of a vertical cornwall is that laying it on it's side gives it a lower profile and puts the horns back to horizontal. If you don't need to do this and a regular cornwall fits in your situation just fine then you don't need, or you may not even understand, why a vertical cornwall is desirable.