Speaker set-up and placement

[dowotyalike]

Hi Everyone,

I'm a new member and joined the forums today!

I'm a recent owner of Klipsch Lascala's in black and I also consider myself to be well seasoned in my audio hobby. I have had many systems and tried many different solid state pieces of gear and especially speakers. I just recently purchased my Lascala and have been enjoying them since the moment I heard them. Prior to this purchase my only exposure to Klipsch was there new RF line of speakers and some computer audio systems, I had never seen Klipsch Lascala's until last year and never heard them until I auditioned the same pair, needless to say I purchased them and brought em home.

As I was loading them into my van, I remarked that they were a little bigger than I remembered and hoped they'd be a good fit once I moved them into their new home. After Installed them I sat back and thought Wow, pretty big, defiantly notice them when I walk into room. My wife thought I had fallen off my rocker and asked me "what were you thinking??" and I said, "Kinda big huh?" to which she sarcastically snapped back "ahhh, ya' think!?"

Well since having them over the last few months, she very uncharacteristically remarked out-of-the-blue one day "these sound good". So I jumped on the chance to engage her in a conversation about them, and from my probing questions, I extrapolated that of all the speakers she has heard in my system, the Lascala's sound the best to her. So I was happy getting her 'stamp of approval' and that she confirmed what I was thinking myself. Now they can rest easy and start to assimilate into the home.

So, while I have little wiggle room for placement (toe in, shift side to side by about 6") I have some questions I'd like to pose to the community here:

One one side I have a gas-space-heater and am concerned about how close, and how hot the side of one of the speakers could get if left unprotected. I did some placement tests(close) and then felt the speaker's side after several hours, and while it was not burst into flame hot, it was initially hot to the touch.When I checked the inside of cabinet by sticking hand through the open hand it was fine (Thick playwood)Here's my question: The speakers side closest to heater could be protected using what? I thought about a reflective thin sheet of insulation? Tinfoil? Is there any chance of the wood getting too hot and warping? Any suggestions would help.

Second question: I read that Klipsch love corners, and that they bloom in corners, of course this is against all the conventional wisdom about speaker placement, and with one of my potential corners for placement being taken up with the heater, that leaves only 1 corner. As it is, it's pulled out of corner so to match the other channel. Corner loading for me just didn't sound right for me, but is it something I should give more of chance to?

Third question: What do I do with the stock crossovers? These came with ALK crossovers and I can't see any reason to change them out.

Fourth question: With respect to toe-in, these bad boys are so big, that toe in requires them to move out from the walls, so what's the experience from owners of these, flush and flat for positioning or toe-in and by how much?

Thanks for reading, and look forward to reading your responses.

[PrestonTom]

Congratulations on your "window of opportunity".

At home Depot there is an insulation that is a foil covered "bubble wrap" ( I am not sure what is called). I used between a dishwasher and butcher block counter top. It works fine. It is not very thick (maybe a 1/2 inch at most).

The conventional wisdom about corners is frequently wrong. It can be a nice way to reinforce portions of the bass region. I would not shy away from it.

re: Toe-in: go ahead and experiment. Personally I think the sweet-spot becomes a bit larger the more you toe the cabinets inward. In fact PWK wrote about this in the DFH. This is at the risk of some loss of "ambiance" but I think that is artificial anyway. By all means experiment. At the same time it can be useful to experiment with how far back you listening chair is from the rear wall. Increasing the distance can change/improve some of the issues with respect to the "slap back" echo.

Good Luck,

-Tom

[jbsl]

Welcome!!

Great choice for your first pair of Klipsch, I have La Scalas also.

1) Not sure what would be apropriate for the keeping the heat off the side of the La SCala(LS) but someone on the forum will know.

2) LS only go down to around 50 Hz so putting them in corners may help the bass a little but not a huge improvement for LS so don't worry about the corners with LS. Klipschorns have to be pushed completely into the corners to get the bass they are capable of. If you like the sound better away from the corners then go with that.

3) Not sure if ALK are Klipsch crossover or new ones but there are people on the forum who can rebuild crossovers if you need it.

4)Experiment till you find what you like. I can tell you how mine are and then someone else will have theirs different due to room size( what is your room size?) and other factors. I have mine about 15 feet apart and sit about 10 feet back and slightly toed in.

Just experiment with them till you find what sounds best.

Your wife has great ears and you are lucky she likes them, the sound not their looks.

What equipment you using with them?

I would not worry about the crossover for a while just enjoy them.

[dowotyalike]

So far I have managed to mitigate the problem with heat by physically moving the speaker away from heat source.

I like the sound of 'toe-in' but not the look of the speakers, the size of the speaker itself tends to exaggerate the appearance and it just doesn't look aesthetically pleasing.

The sound seemed to benefit, but not by much, when comparing to a conventional floor stander. I think for the most part they will reside flush against the wall and when listening, I can always adjust for more toe-in.

I will check home depot today and see what they have available and suitable as a heat shield...

Thanks for the responses and the warm welcome.

[Islander]

When I was placing my La Scalas, I had only one corner available and it has a baseboard heater along one wall. Since I wanted to minimize any dissimilarity between the sound of both speakers, I moved the "corner" speaker a couple of feet from that side wall, eliminating the heat issue. That way, neither speaker was in a corner.

I experimented with toe-in and settled with both speakers aimed directly at the listening position. They're about 11.5 feet apart, measured center-to-center and 13 feet from the listening position. A laser level is really handy for getting speakers into easily repeatable positions.

When the speakers were almost touching the front wall, the bass had too many peaks and dips, so I tried moving them out from the wall. The bass got more even until they were about 6 inches from the wall (from the wall to the nearest corner of the speaker), then there was no noticeable change, all the way out to 12 inches from the wall. Accordingly, I settled on 5 inches from the wall.

La Scalas look really big at first, but you've probably already noticed that they're not that tall. Over time, they'll start to look smaller to you and your GF, especially if there's stuff on either side of them. They will continue to sound great, however.

As for the original crossovers, they have value and are worth keeping, in case you eventually want to sell the speakers to someone who wants them to be all-original. If and when that happens, you can sell the ALK crossovers separately, since they're pretty expensive.

Are you using a subwoofer with them? Many Scala owners do, including me. La Scalas have good bass, it just doesn't go all that low, since the bass horns are so small. Seriously. Horns for really deep bass have to be huge and the Scalas were intended to be relatively portable. Klipschorns only manage to go so low by using the walls of the room as extensions to their bass horns.

[dowotyalike]

Well I have solved the heat problem. Reflectex, I bought a roll from Home depot and it is essentially bubble wrap with a tinfoil membrane on either side, so its flexible and easy to work with. In fact, it was perfectly wide enough that I need only cut to length.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

I spent Saturday doing some tests, and I am actually quite surprised how well it works, I went so far as to put the speaker beside the heater with a hand width apart and no problems at all with heat, NONE! Its cool to the touch, so that is huge for my living situation and me. I would never have convinced the wife that we could forgo the room heater, so this works jus fine by me. I keep the soundstage intact and can enjoy all the room heating benefits without cooking my lascala! Thanks for the responses

I also messed around with toe in with some interesting results, however, now, based on the above thread response, I will pull them out from the wall and see how that sounds.

I do not have a sub-woofer for them, I do have and use a PCA or Phase-coupled activator, which restores low-end frequency by way of harmonics and it works pretty well for the listening volumes I use.

Anyone here explain what happens to the signal below the speakers rated frequency response? The woofer itself is 15 and when it reaches it limit (power handling) what happens to it? Does it behave like a conventional driver; does it reach its excursion limit? I also wonder if at 100 watts, which would be LOUD, does the woofer sound like it can keep up? I just havent pushed it myself, and doubt I ever will, so Id like to hear fro the community there own experiences.

The PCA is made by a company Audio Control and works on any speakers, and while it can tax smaller speakers/drivers, It can drive woofers to their limit pretty quickly

[pauln]

I also have black La Scalas (2005). After 30 years of Heresy I was not concerned about bass, just getting them into the best position for overall sound. I'm not a bass hound and have always thought most speakers have too much.

Here's what I think I might know about them...

I don't like them too far apart, about 10 feet apart seems best in my room; this has them about 4 feet from the side walls.

As mentioned above, I like them about 5 inches off the back wall.

I sit back about 13 feet and have them toed in so I can just see the outer side of each one.

The best thing I have done lately is to place 4 inch thick books under the front bottom edge to angle them up - this puts me looking straight into the midrange horn, shoots the tweeters up over my head into the upper patrs of my high ceiling room, and directs the bass horn up enough that I think it makes the room modes more complicated (which tends to smooth out the overall room response). As an additional benefit, this up angle prevents the temptation to put things on top of the L:a Scalas (plants, drinks, etc.).

The modern crossover network is optimized for smoother louder high listening levels, but I listen at moderate levels with SETs (never put a whole watt through them yet), so I replaced mine with ye ole original style type A networks with I think is better for lower levels and SET amps in particular.

I also thought at first that the La Scalas were quite hugh, but with time they now look just normal and beautiful.