Returning my RW10d

[MojoRisen]

But before doing so, I've got some questions...

This unit plays pretty good with my RF-82s when signal is digital (Dolby, DTS, etc..). However, I am totally unimpressed with CD audio or other non-digital signal . I think this comes from the receiver only sending bass satellite speaker bass info on non-digital signals. There doesn't seem to be as much there as when in a .1 environment. I play a lot of CD's and it really bothers me as to how lacking the bass seems to be. If I listen to a music DVD in Dolby or DTS, or listen to one of the digital channels from my cable company, the music is totally different.

I'm thinking about returning this unit and getting a Martin Logan Abyss. One of the things I like about this sub is you can plug in pre-amp RCA's (2) AND the LFE in at the same time. I am under the impression that there is more bass signal /info in running the pre-amp out from receiver into sub and then setting crossover on the sub to the bottom end of the main speakers.

The RW10d doesn't seem to have options to take advantage of both LFE and running the pre-amp outs from the receiver at the same time. Am I missing something here???

Also, this sub seems to be a one-note sub. I can't seem to hear a bass drum kick over a bass guitar note. Any comments on this would be appreciated as well.

Thanks!

OH, PS...I know there are other subs out there but...I am needing to deal with Magonlia through BB in order to take back the RW10d outside of the 30 return policy. The martin logan Dynamo and Abyss blew me away when compared to other subs they had there (def tech, mirage, KEF, klipsch)

[oldbuckster]

Something doesn't sound right ............... I run 2 systems off my 1 Sub ................ Check your settings, What are you using for a receiver ?

[sivadselim]

You obviously have a problem with the way your receiver (or pre/pro) is set up, generally, OR with some specific settings that adjust your receiver's (or pre/pro's) subwoofer output for different inputs, OR with, perhaps, your receiver's inablity to send a bass signal through its subwoofer output with 2-channel sources when the speakers are set to LARGE.

Do you utilize a digital connection for both DVDs and CDs or are you utilizing a 2-channel analog connection for CDs?

The subwoofer you are considering replacing the RW-10d with may be a better subwoofer, but set up and adjusted properly at the receiver (or pre/pro), your current subwoofer should work equally well with both sources that have a specific 0.1 channel as well as those sources without it (i.e. 2-channel sources).

Have you considered setting up your receiver (or pre/pro) as having NO SUB and utilizing only the front L/R pre-outs for connecting the subwoofer?

[MojoRisen]

You obviously have a problem with the way your receiver (or pre/pro) is set up, generally, OR with some specific settings that adjust your receiver's (or pre/pro's) subwoofer output for different inputs, OR with, perhaps, your receiver's inablity to send a bass signal through its subwoofer output with 2-channel sources when the speakers are set to LARGE.

Do you utilize a digital connection for both DVDs and CDs or are you utilizing a 2-channel analog connection for CDs?

The subwoofer you are considering replacing the RW-10d with may be a better subwoofer, but set up and adjusted properly at the receiver (or pre/pro), your current subwoofer should work equally well with both sources that have a specific 0.1 channel as well as those sources without it (i.e. 2-channel sources).

Have you considered setting up your receiver (or pre/pro) as having NO SUB and utilizing only the front L/R pre-outs for connecting the subwoofer?

I am using the same Pioneer DVD player for both DVD and CD. I have it set up correctly in it's audio output. I have it connected through optical cable to the receiver.

I have a Yamaha 5560 receiver. I plan on upgrading it but the speakers were first on the list. The Yammy is set to L/R Large, and Sats and Center are small. I have bass set to both (trust me, it's much worse without it being set up this way). The 5560 has crossover set to 90hz when any speaker set is set to small. There is no other option I can find that allows adjusting the point of the crossover.

The Sub is connected to the receiver through the LFE output and the cable is plugged into the left side of the two inputs on the sub. The cable is fine and is totally adequate.

The receiver has a pre-amp output (L/R) which I am told could run straight to the sub with two RCA cables. If I connect this way, what happens to the LFE signal from digital material? Would that be lost or would I manually have to reconnect the LFE (single cable) everytime I wanted to play digital material??? (material using the .1 channel)???

[MrMcGoo]

There are two most likely causes for the poor bass on CDs. First, stereo direct may be engaged that bypasses the crossover, Second possibility is that you have an analog signal to your processor and your processor cannot do bass management on an analog signal.

Do not replace the sub until you get your setup right. If the sub is playing with plenty of output, proper location etc., and the bass is not good, then get a more musical sub. But remember that your setup is THE most likely culprit and a new sub will not solve that problem.

Bill

[MojoRisen]

THe sub placement is not the issue. It sounds good with movies and digital music (i.e. music that is encoded with dolby or DTS).

I listed my set up in a post above this one. Any suggestions would be appreciated. The other speakers on my system are sounding just fine.

[Zen Traveler]

..., your receiver's inablity to send a bass signal through its subwoofer output with 2-channel sources when the speakers are set to LARGE.

... The Yammy is set to L/R Large, and Sats and Center are small. I have bass set to both (trust me, it's much worse without it being set up this way). ...

The receiver has a pre-amp output (L/R) which I am told could run straight to the sub with two RCA cables. If I connect this way, what happens to the LFE signal from digital material? Would that be lost or would I manually have to reconnect the LFE (single cable) everytime I wanted to play digital material??? (material using the .1 channel)???

I think sivadselim is on to something here and if you set up your system as quoted, you won't have the benefits of the LFE channel on 5.1 material and you will have to do what you suggest to retrieve it.

Have you tried setting your Mains as Small on CD's and does your AVR send everything under 90 Hz to the sub in that scenario? Fwiw, before I connected my Denonlink, I preferred running two channel through the R & L EXT IN and let my DVD player do the bass mgmt. That being said, I am not familiar with your AVR or DVD player and if you have the 6 channel {EDIT: Using 3 analog cables; The subwoofer in also has to be connected} input option using the player for BM.

[sivadselim]

The receiver has a pre-amp output (L/R) which I am told could run straight to the sub with two RCA cables. If I connect this way, what happens to the LFE signal from digital material? Would that be lost or would I manually have to reconnect the LFE (single cable) everytime I wanted to play digital material??? (material using the .1 channel)??

...............................and if you set up your system as quoted, you won't have the benefits of the LFE channel on 5.1 material and you will have to do what you suggest to retrieve it.

[bs] [:@]

WTF? BS! That is TOTALLY incorrect! Jeez....................... [8-)]

If you set your receiver up as having NO SUB, then the LFE channel will be properly rerouted to the front channels. This is what ALL AV receivers do. This is one of the most fundamental basics of HT. So if you set the receiver up as having NO SUB and you connect the sub to the receiver's R/L pre-outs, you're good to go.

[Zen Traveler]

[bs] [:@]

WTF? BS! That is TOTALLY incorrect! Jeez....................... [8-)]

If you set your receiver up as having NO SUB, then the LFE channel will be properly rerouted to the front channels. This is what ALL AV receivers do. So if you set the receiver up as having NO SUB and you connect the sub to the receiver's R/L pre-outs, you're good to go.

EDIT: I was wrong....[:$]

[Zen Traveler]

Have you tried setting your Mains as Small on CD's and does your AVR send everything under 90 Hz to the sub in that scenario? Fwiw, before I connected my Denonlink, I preferred running two channel through the R & L EXT IN and let my DVD player do the bass mgmt. That being said, I am not familiar with your AVR or DVD player and if you have the 6 channel {EDIT: Using 3 analog cables; The subwoofer in also has to be connected} input option using the player for BM.

After reading through the manual of the HTR 5560 I see where sivadselim is coming from insofar as both the lfe and surround material being rerouted to the sub in that configuration. That being said, I don't see the benefit of hooking it up that way and stick by my original recommendation. []

[sivadselim]

Given HIS quote I don't see how the info from the surrounds gets to the subwoofer.

[8-)]

I'm not sure what you mean. If his surrounds and center are set to SMALL, and his subwoofer is connected to the receiver's subwoofer output, the info from the surround and center channels that's below his receiver's crossover setting is sent to the subwoofer. Nothing complicated there.

If he sets his receiver up as having NO SUB, and connects his subwoofer to the receiver's front L/R pre-outs, and his surrounds and center are set to SMALL, then the surround and center info below his receiver's crossover setting is sent to the front channels which are connected to his subwoofer via his receiver's front L/R pre-outs. Nothing complicated there, either.

So, with his receiver set up as having NO SUB, his subwoofer connected to the receiver's front L/R pre-outs, the LFE channel and the bass info from any channels that are set to SMALL is sent to his front speaker channels which would be connected to his subwoofer via the receiver's front L/R pre-outs and to his front speakers via the receiver's front channel speaker outputs. The LFE info and bass info below his crossover setting would actually be shared by his front speakers and his subwoofer. All he has to do is adjust the subwoofer's volume setting and crossover (which is really a low-pass filter) appropriately to match his front speaker's output and natural roll-off. He loses nothing at all, information-wise, with this scenario.

This is pretty basic stuff.

[Zen Traveler]

...This is pretty basic stuff.

I agree and apologize to you for having to go through the effort to explain that to me. Evidently you were typing as I was researching.

{Edit: I was thinking more about a possible solution and chose my words haphazardly without thinking about the practical application.}

[oldbuckster]

Go to manual setting, speaker selection, sub woofer setting, switch to BOTH, or SWFR...........betcha' that's it..........Had the same problem with my Yamaha 5890 until I figured that out................instructions a pretty confusing................try that..........It's a setting problem, not the Sub........Count on it !!!!!!!!!!

[sivadselim]

Go to manual setting, speaker selection, sub woofer setting, switch to BOTH, or SWFR...........betcha' that's it..........Had the same problem with my Yamaha 5890 until I figured that out................instructions a pretty confusing................try that..........It's a setting problem, not the Sub........Count on it !!!!!!!!!!

That's a good idea.

But even if you get the sub working properly for music, you still may not be happy with its performance. The RW-10d is one of the lowest-cost Klipsch subs available. It may even be outperformed by the Sub12. It will most definitely be outperformed by the ML Abyss.

[sivadselim]

I agree and apologize................

No problem. Sorry I got 'bent out of shape'. [:$]

[Zen Traveler]

I deserved it. In my defense, I have always owned a sub and didn't think the issue through. I mistakenly remembered that speakers set to Large get the full signal and forgot about what I used to know concerning speakers other than Mains that are not. []

[oldbuckster]

Older Vintage type 2 channels are so much simplier to use, of course they don't do as much as Home Theatre units do. I think they do a terrible job with the instructions, and old dawgs like me have a hard time understanding what they mean ......................I know his sub problem is a setting issue, most problems with a sub and home theatre are .................. I use 1 sub for two systems...........left channel in analog CD to my Scott 299-D, right channel in to LFE channel on the Yamaha, works for me, I like my JBL Sub ................

[MojoRisen]

Had the receiver set correctly. I've experimented back and forth with bass going to sub or both main and sub. Works best on BOTH. That was already set. The mains sound terrible when set as small. They are full range speakers.

I think I found the issue. I called Klipsch tech support when I first got my speakers. I was asking about the best way to hook up the sub. I was told that I could plug into either slot on the plug on the back and that I didn't need a y-adaptor. Well, I had the sub cable in the right side plug. I changed it to the left and volla...much different sound. The bass was totally better. I was able to turn the bass volume (on the sub) down to about half way and still get good bass.

I appreciate all the help here. Now I'm not sure what I'll do. I still think I want more bass and I can't get a RW12d until December (on backorder at BB). I may just bring that ML Abyss home and give it an audition.

[CAS]

I was told that I could plug into either slot on the plug on the back and that I didn't need a y-adaptor. Well, I had the sub cable in the right side plug. I changed it to the left and volla...much different sound. The bass was totally better. I was able to turn the bass volume (on the sub) down to about half way and still get good bass.

Then you had a bad connection in the right side. Left or right won't make a difference...unless there's a defect as I noted. And no, you don't need a Y-adaptor.

[sivadselim]

I still think I want more bass and I can't get a RW12d until December (on backorder at BB). I may just bring that ML Abyss home and give it an audition.

An RW-12d will not be that significant an improvement over the RW-10d. If you can afford an Abyss but would like to stay with Klipsch, you need to be considering an RSW-10d, an RT-10d, or an RT-12d, not an RW-12d.