MitchM Posted December 2, 2007 Share Posted December 2, 2007 Hello Klipsch community... I'm looking for some advice. I'm having a hard time finding a balance between comfort and a good seal with my pair of IMAGE earphones. Without the ability to draw you a picture, here is what I think my Ear feels/looks like. We have three areas, outer hole, canal and inner hole (these are non-scientific names ); ________ ___/ \___ ___ ___ \__________/ Best I could do without using paint but I hope the picture acts as a reference. My ear canal opening is small; I would say the smallest single gel is a tight fit for the outer hole. I will go down the list of gels and tell you how I feel with them and how they sound. ---- Large Single. Difficult to get into my ear comfortably, but these make for the best seal and they sound the best. I can't wear them for more than 10 min without pain. I get the seal not from the outer hole but from the middle canal. If I try to get a seal on the outer hole, I can just barley get them in and they are TIGHT and always slip out. Insertion angle, straight. ---- Large Double A little more comfortable than the Large single, can slide in easier than and the sound is still good. Again, seal is achieved from the ear canal and not the entry area. Insertion angle, straight. ---- Medium Single These are supposed to be the average size. With these I can get a seal from the opening hole, but it's still a little tight. When getting a seal from the outer hole, they too tend to slip out over time. They sound best if I get a seal from the INNER hole, meaning I cram them way in there but they do sound great. Fatigue happens at about 20 min as well with these. Insertion angle, straight. ---- Small Double Easily the most comfortable of the bunch, it goes in great and effortlessly but it's hard to find a seal in the canal. Going in straight and using the outer hole I will lose my seal over time as the too tend to slip out. I found it most comfortable by inserting them towards the top of my ear and having the tail of the IMAGE in the little grove in my ear. You know, in between the actual bottom of the ear lobe and the wind blocker piece of the ear... Finding a seal is kind of difficult, but once I find it life is good. I get to listen for about an hour before my ears start to tingle/itch. These do not sound near as good as the Large Single, but comfort is top notch compared to what I’m use to. ---- Small Single These are harder to insert than the Small Double, most likely due to the stiffer nature of the actual gel. I can get a seal when placing them in straight but they too eventually push out. I can also find a seal when I insert them towards the top and have the tail in the same said notch in my ear as above. I can sometime get a seal on the inner hole but it's a little too deep for my comfort. What am I doing wrong here? How can I improve the comfort level expected f these wonderful earphones! BTW, when I get a seal, the sounds heard in my head are like no other. Simply the best I have ever experienced without a doubt! Thanks for taking the time to help, anything is appreciated. Amy is the best PR person from ANY company I have ever dealt with. Thank you for your compassion and enthusiasm towards this highly superior product. Btw, please excuse any random incomplete thoughts that may be portrayed in this thread, have a lot going on right now being deployed to Iraq and I’m trying to squeeze in some time for this thread. Thanks again, talk to you shortly! Thanks again Amy! Mitch, from Baghdad! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Thump Posted December 2, 2007 Share Posted December 2, 2007 Hello Klipsch community...I'm looking for some advice. I'm having a hard time finding a balance between comfort and a good seal with my pair of IMAGE earphones. Without the ability to draw you a picture, here is what I think my Ear feels/looks like. We have three areas, outer hole, canal and inner hole (these are non-scientific names ); ________ ___/ \___ ___ ___ \__________/ Best I could do without using paint but I hope the picture acts as a reference. My ear canal opening is small; I would say the smallest single gel is a tight fit for the outer hole. ...Mitch, from Baghdad! Mitch,First of all as a patriotic American, I want to thank you for serving our country. Freedom isn't FREE and you are making a sacrifice for that freedom. So I commend what you are doing! As you know I have spent a lot of hours analyzing ears and ear canals, so your problem is an interesting challenge. Without seeing your ear geometry it is difficult to understand exactly what fit issue you may have. Maybe someday we can take an ear impression of your canals and digitize the geometry to analyze in computer analysis. I like your drawing of the ear. I think I understand what you have here: { Pinna } {1.Tragis (slot), 2.Concha, 3.Canal} 1 2 3 ________ ___/ \___ ___ ___ \__________/ Is this correct? Best I could do without using paint but I hope the picture acts as a reference. My ear canal opening is small; I would say the smallest single gel is a tight fit for the outer hole. I will go down the list of gels and tell you how I feel with them and how they sound. ---- Large Single... ---- Large Double... ---- Medium Single... ---- Small Double... ---- Small Single... These are harder to insert than the Small Double, most likely due to the stiffer nature of the actual gel. I can get a seal when placing them in straight but they too eventually push out. I can also find a seal when I insert them towards the top and have the tail in the same said notch in my ear as above. I can sometime get a seal on the inner hole but it's a little too deep for my comfort. What am I doing wrong here? How can I improve the comfort level expected f these wonderful earphones! BTW, when I get a seal, the sounds heard in my head are like no other. Simply the best I have ever experienced without a doubt! Thanks for taking the time to help, anything is appreciated. Amy is the best PR person from ANY company I have ever dealt with. Thank you for your compassion and enthusiasm towards this highly superior product. Btw, please excuse any random incomplete thoughts that may be portrayed in this thread, have a lot going on right now being deployed to Iraq and I’m trying to squeeze in some time for this thread.Thanks again, talk to you shortly! Thanks again Amy! Mitch, from Baghdad! ---- Large Single. Difficult to get into my ear comfortably, but these make for the best seal and they sound the best. I can't wear them for more than 10 min without pain. I get the seal not from the outer hole but from the middle canal. If I try to get a seal on the outer hole, I can just barley get them in and they are TIGHT and always slip out. Insertion angle, straight. This may be the large tip sitting in the concha only. This tip is too large. ---- Large DoubleA little more comfortable than the Large single, can slide in easier than and the sound is still good. Again, seal is achieved from the ear canal and not the entry area. Insertion angle, straight. You are getting pressure at the ear canal entrance from the medium tip (front tip) but it is too large also… ---- Medium SingleThese are supposed to be the average size. With these I can get a seal from the opening hole, but it's still a little tight. When getting a seal from the outer hole, they too tend to slip out over time. They sound best if I get a seal from the INNER hole, meaning I cram them way in there but they do sound great. Fatigue happens at about 20 min as well with these. Insertion angle, straight. I suspect that this tip is also too large… ---- Small Double Easily the most comfortable of the bunch, it goes in great and effortlessly but it's hard to find a seal in the canal. Going in straight and using the outer hole I will lose my seal over time as the too tend to slip out. I found it most comfortable by inserting them towards the top of my ear and having the tail of the IMAGE in the little grove in my ear. You know, in between the actual bottom of the ear lobe and the wind blocker piece of the ear... Finding a seal is kind of difficult, but once I find it life is good. I get to listen for about an hour before my ears start to tingle/itch. These do not sound near as good as the Large Single, but comfort is top notch compared to what I’m use to. This tip seems to fit you best. Your experience is quite normal for a first time user. I sometimes get an itch primarily when it is sliding out. ---- Small SingleThese are harder to insert than the Small Double, most likely due to the stiffer nature of the actual gel. I can get a seal when placing them in straight but they too eventually push out. I can also find a seal when I insert them towards the top and have the tail in the same said notch in my ear as above. I can sometime get a seal on the inner hole but it's a little too deep for my comfort. This tip probably fits you well also. The more you use it the less you will notice these issues. I have an adult daughter who has quite small ear canals and concha’s. The average dimension on a human ear canal is 6 mm…She is half that. The small tip she can use but the soft tail on IMAGE doesn’t even touch her tragus. We actually have an extra small ear tip that was designed to fit people like her. You will be able to get this ear tip at the Klipsch website soon. Every style has its Pro’s and Con’s… IMAGE is just simple… Pro… It loads quickly to your ear and secures nicely when the tail is slotted in the tragus. This typically occurs with the correct ear tip. Oh and it is comfortable because it is ultra light. Con…The disadvantage with straight loading PM’s are that they are less stable for wearing because all the weight of the cable tugs on the ear tip. This is where tickle can occur. It is a trade off of light pressure to the ear canal. Custom 1,2,&3 are secure… You will find that custom ear phones will work better for active use. Because the adjustable wire over the ear takes all the vertical pressure off the earphone body, thus they are weightless. They take more work to load, but if you aren’t going to be interrupted this is fine. Please be careful to use them in non dangerous situations. i.e. I don’t want you walking around Baghdad on duty or at post and not hear the threat of the street. Keep your eyes open and be alert! You are one of the Klipsch family now, and we want you to come home safe as do we all the men and women serving. Other solutions… You can try foamies. They will be secure, but they may hurt your ears eventually from the additional pressure and get dirty easily. I suspect you won’t get replacement eartips in Al Najaf, Kirkuk, or Baghdad…Sorry! I am also patenting some other shapes that I want to make. My goal is to fit everybody comfortably, within reason. (Fetuses and Martians are off the list…) Take Care Mitch Hope to see you home soon... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchM Posted December 2, 2007 Author Share Posted December 2, 2007 Hey, thanks Professor thump for the well thought out reply! It's been truly an honor to serve and I'm proud to be an American so I have no problem doing my part. I also only listen to them after my shift so no distractions for me! I think your analysis of my drawing is correct, your terms seem to be a little more logical than mine I too think the Small Double may be the one for me but the sound quality isn't the same as as I get with the larger gels. Is there something I can do to increase the SQ from the seal? I have noticed the bass gets a little muddy when it's not a tight seal. I do have some IEM experience, I had a pair of Shure E2s and I NEVER found a comofortable seal. The foamies were horrible for my ears, I ended up getting an inner ear infection from them! I am really starting to think that if I had something to go over my ear and to hold them in place I think I would be able to get a more consistent seal. Are the PMs supposed to be inserted like / into the ear or -- ? Still confused on that one! Thanks again for the great product! Mitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Thump Posted December 2, 2007 Share Posted December 2, 2007 Hey, thanks Professor thump for the well thought out reply!It's been truly an honor to serve and I'm proud to be an American so I have no problem doing my part. I also only listen to them after my shift so no distractions for me!I think your analysis of my drawing is correct, your terms seem to be a little more logical than mine I too think the Small Double may be the one for me but the sound quality isn't the same as as I get with the larger gels. Is there something I can do to increase the SQ from the seal? I have noticed the bass gets a little muddy when it's not a tight seal. I do have some IEM experience, I had a pair of Shure E2s and I NEVER found a comfortable seal. The foamies were horrible for my ears, I ended up getting an inner ear infection from them!I am really starting to think that if I had something to go over my ear and to hold them in place I think I would be able to get a more consistent seal. Are the PMs supposed to be inserted like / into the ear or -- ? Still confused on that one!Thanks again for the great product!Mitch Think about the characteristics of the air when you have an air leak. The less air in your ear canal or the better the seal the better the one to one coupling of the armature to your eardrum. This is why the bass will vary on all PM's depending on the seal and location in the canal. Imagine your ear canal as a mustard bottle. If the cap is closed when you squeeze the pressure builds proportionally. If you open the nozzle the pressure does not build as quickly. If the cap is off when you squeeze the pressure can only build with a fast squeeze and when the squeeze is slow the mustard or air in your case does not push back. It just runs out of the bottle (canal) and normalizes to the outside air. What I would recommend is to have custom shells made for your ears. This would require you to go to a licensed Audiologist and have them inject special silicon into your canals after they inspect your ears with an otoscope. Before the injection can be made a foam dam is inserted in the canal to protect the ear drum. This would allow the shell to be similar to your ear canal shape. It would cost about $70 for the impressions to be made, but I don’t know what the shell would cost. The IMAGE should work well inserted into a shell molded from your ear shape. Show your audiologist your Klipsch headphones. I find that the eartips are as comfortable as my ear shell IEM’s but your fit may requires something else. If this doesn’t work I can't think of any other suggestions. You may quite possibly have a very sharp or angular geometry in your ear. This isn’t uncommon, since I have measured people with this issue. You may also just be more sensitive then most. Again, I wish you the best in your tour of duty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Amy Posted December 2, 2007 Moderators Share Posted December 2, 2007 I believe I do have some of the teeny eartips at my desk, so please send me your address [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLSamuel Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Mitch, Thanks for your service to our country. Thinking and praying for the safety of all our troops serving us all. I know all about itching ears. My ears frequently itch and but it doesn't seem to be aggravated by my Custom 2. I find that the large flanges work the best for me with the Custom 2. The medium work pretty well but much more difficult to maintain a seal. The larger dual flange don't seem to work any better and may actually irritate my ears a bit. I think my ears are more bigger to smaller. I tried the IMAGE prototypes this past June and I'm sure with smaller flanges which is why I think my ears get smaller. The IMAGE are so tiny they fit in a lot further. And they did seal very well as I had to turn the music down real low and pull them out a bit to have a chance to hear the conversations in the room. I think the PM's are supposed to be inserted pretty much straight in, but I'm sure it varies. Thank you for all you do for US and enjoy your IMAGE. It sounds as if Amy is sending you some of the real tiny flanges, maybe they'll work and be more comfortable. Wishing you and your comrades a safe and Happy Holidays. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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