badfan Posted January 6, 2002 Share Posted January 6, 2002 Hi All! I have a Denon 2801, the Klipsch KLF-20's as my main speakers and a Velodyne CT-120 as the sub. What I am wondering is if I should have my speakers set to "lagre" and use the crossover of the sub. Or should I set the speakers to "small" and use the internal crossover of the reciever which is 80Hz. If I do use the crossover of the sub where shoud I set it at. I am curently setting the speakers as "large" and I have the crossover of the sub at 50, which P Ward recomendded I should do to " having the KLF's going as low as possible helps the stereo image and intergaration with the sub." Your comments will be greatly appricitiated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddvj Posted January 6, 2002 Share Posted January 6, 2002 The way you have it set up is great. Don't let anyone tell you to set at small. Better yet, let your ears be the judge. You'll find you get a lot better sound with speaks set at Lg. IMO, that goes for the center channel, too, unless they can't handle it. ------------------ My Home Theater Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted January 6, 2002 Share Posted January 6, 2002 well here goes the ole small vs large debate again when i had a receiver w/ a fixed 80hz crossover & both rf-3 & klf-30 mains at dif times, i didn't want to set them to small either. i mean, come on, they're large speakers. but i finally bit the bullet & switched them to small and the bass quality & overall sound was much better. of course having the big woofs on the mains became a waste of resources, but it still sounded better overall. & that's w/ all the dif ways like sub phase, positioning, etc to try to get better quality from mains set large. bad, 1st i take it u have the sub connected to the sub preout line level. when u use the sub's crossover set at 50hz, & all the lfe is sent to the sub only, as most receiver's like the denon bass mgmt does, what happens? it's cut off starting at 50hz & u lose lfe. goes off to oblivion. it gone. play a concert disk in 5.1 like the eagles hell freezes & switch your crossover out or turn it all the way to 120hz or whatever & u should hear the dif. as for setting mains to large i also found the bass QUALITY better setting them to small. w/ a capable sub like your velo u should hear an improvement when the lows go to a sub where they belong & which also frees up the load on your amp & speakers, & u avoid the negative overlap in frequencies between your sub & main towers. even w/ a fixed 80hz crossover, using the sub preout, it should still sound better w/ all set small & the sub crossover switched out. better yet, try all the above receiver & sub settings w/ various bassy material & see which sounds best for u. ------------------ My Home Systems Page This message has been edited by boa12 on 01-06-2002 at 03:17 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badfan Posted January 6, 2002 Author Share Posted January 6, 2002 Thanks for the reply guys. The way I have it set now is using the crossover of the sub at 50hz and setting the speakers to large. The thing I like about this is that it sounded like movie theater sound to me. It sounded like the sub was just used for the LFE, which I enjoyed. When I used the internal crossover of the receiver and had the speakers on small, the bass sounded lower and cleaner which I liked on most of my cd's. The vocals were cleaner, even though I am using the phantom mode for the center information. So I am gonna just switch it back tomorrow the way I had it before. Another quick question: When I use the internal crossover of the receiver should I do any thing with the Highpass which has a selection at 100 or 80, and the phase which has a selection of 0/180? This message has been edited by badfan on 01-06-2002 at 11:48 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted January 7, 2002 Share Posted January 7, 2002 bad, u can set the mains large & set the denon to send just lfe only to sub. but then u won't get anything outa the vel unless the material has lfe on it. i switch my velo's crossover out though. otherwise you're losing some lfe whether u set the denon to both or lfe only. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badfan Posted January 7, 2002 Author Share Posted January 7, 2002 boa. I might just set the speakers to large and use the veol's crossover at 50 to get that theater like sound while watching movies. When I do that should I set the highpass at 100 or 80, and the phase at 0 or 180. I currently have the HighPass at 80 and the Phase at 0 Sorry I don't understand the highpass or the phase. Then when I listen to music I can set the speakers to small and use the crossover of the receiver. I will test music to see if I like having the speakers on large or not. Thanks for your help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted January 8, 2002 Share Posted January 8, 2002 bad, do u have the velo connected only by way of the sub out to the line in(s)? also does your velo have a crossover in/out switch? if u have the sub hooked just to the sub preout (which is fine), your high pass doesn't affect anything. & i'd switch the low pass crossover on the sub out or turn it all the way up to the highest freq. otherwise no matter whether u set large or small, or fronts+sub or lfe only, u'll be cutting lfe which only goes to the sub. lfe is speced to go up to 120hz. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badfan Posted January 8, 2002 Author Share Posted January 8, 2002 boa. I have my sub hooked up using the pre-out on the receiver in the line in on the sub. yes my sub dose have a crossover in/out. "& i'd switch the low pass crossover on the sub out or turn it all the way up to the highest freq. otherwise no matter whether u set large or small, or fronts+sub or lfe only, u'll be cutting lfe which only goes to the sub. lfe is speced to go up to 120hz." I just turned up the lo pass crossover to the highest level of 120hZ. My speakers are set to large and the crossover is at 50hZ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted January 8, 2002 Share Posted January 8, 2002 u could just set the crossover switch to out then it doesn't matter what u set the vel crossover dial to. so what's set at 50hz then? you lost me there. how's it sound on 2 channel music w/ the crossover out & fronys:large? ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted January 8, 2002 Share Posted January 8, 2002 bad, or another option is set the vel low pass cross in & at 50hz or where it sounds best w/ bassy 2 channel music, mains:large. then when u play anything w/ lfe like a dvd u can switch the vel crossover out so it doesn't cut off lfe. not perfect but an option. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badfan Posted January 8, 2002 Author Share Posted January 8, 2002 boa, my crossover on my veol is set at 50hZ, the speakers r set 2 large, and the low-pass crossover is set to the max @ 120hz, just to clear up what I confused u with. Also I do not listen to 2 channel music, I like the dolby prologic mode or the rock arena for that. Thanks 4 your help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted January 8, 2002 Share Posted January 8, 2002 bad, what is it u mean when u say u have your low pass crossover set at 120hz? on the velo? then how can it also be set to 50hz? are u talkin some setting in the denon set at 120hz? & i'll say it one last time, if u don't want to cut lfe w/ the velo sub, u should switch the crossover on it to out. do what sounds best to u w/ the denon settings, i just don't want u to lose any lfe material ------------------ My Home Systems Page This message has been edited by boa12 on 01-08-2002 at 09:59 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t-man Posted January 8, 2002 Share Posted January 8, 2002 badfan, You need to try this before assumming you have an acceptable method. I would definitely try using the speaker outputs from the denon, and connect them to the speaker (high level) inputs of your sub, and wire your main speaks to your high level outs on the sub. Set you high pass to 80 hz, and set sub to no/off on the denon. Dial your sub's crossover anywhere you like below 80, until it blends well with the mains. I think you will really like the results. As for me, I have the big 'ol dual 10" woofs on the KGs, so I couldn't justify cutting at 100 hz, which is what the KSW12 does. I run the mains full range, and run the sub in parallel with the mains dialed in at around 50 hz. Hope this helps. T-man ------------------ KG 5.5 (mains) KG 2.2v (center) KLF-C7 (center in storage) KG 1 (rears) KSW-12 (sub) Denon AVR 681/1601 Toshiba SD-3109 DVD Kenwood LVD700 LD Sony CD changer Sony 27" Trinitron Sony PLX I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forresthump Posted January 8, 2002 Share Posted January 8, 2002 This one f&^*$% up thread. First setting the sub LOW PASS crossover at 50 when all the LFE go ONLY to the SUB is bad advice. If the sub has a crossover switch out USE IT. That why they have it for use with HT type receiver. "Dont let anyone tell you to set at small" is bad advice. Don't apply to everybody. And yes hook your sub up to the sub preout and let your receiver do the bass management is the thing to do. Ears dont even know this. See Ears I help ------------------ go forth & hump the world Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted January 8, 2002 Share Posted January 8, 2002 I can't wait for the day when all a/v receivers have adjustable crossovers from 40-180hz and adjustable slopes to boot. then this topic will pretty much go away. or at least it'll be "where should i set the crossover(s) in the receiver" w/ a simple answer of "where it sounds best" ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badfan Posted January 8, 2002 Author Share Posted January 8, 2002 WOW, thanks for the replys. I was doing some listening to some dvd's with my mains set to large, I was using the sub pre-out on the receiver, i was using the crossover of the sub at 50hZ, and the high-pass crossover at 120hZ. It sounded like a theater using the sub with the lfe channel. Is this the proper way to have the KLF-20's hooked up to the veoldyne cht-120. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted January 8, 2002 Share Posted January 8, 2002 bad, sounds like u switched out the vel's crossover? so what is it exactly u have set to 120hz? u still got me on that (u know the high pass switch, i believe 80/100hz, on your sub doesn't do anything unless basically u have speakers connected directly to the sub. let me post some basics if i may - the crossover knob on the sub is a lowpass filter. that is it controls at which freq the sub starts to be cut-off going up in freq. - the fixed 80hz crossover in the denon bass management is both a low pass & high pass filter. that is it starts cutting bass to the sub preout at 80hz going up. it also starts cutting bass to any speakers set small at 80hz going down. - in the denon & w/ most receivers bass mgmt, as long as sub:yes, all lfe goes only to the sub preout/sub. lfe is a seperate channel - the .1 in 5.1. -hence if u have the crossover on your sub switched in, then it will start cutting LFE at that crossover point on up. (f.e., if it's set at 50hz, u start losing LFE there on up. so when u play a concert dvd & it has LFE material at 70hz, it'll probably be about 10db less). -if your sub has no switch, then turning it's crossover all the way to 120hz should still be ok because LFE shouldn't go above 120hz anyway. -that's why LFE is called .1 - because it's meant to cover 1/10 of the freq bandwidth. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badfan Posted January 9, 2002 Author Share Posted January 9, 2002 boa, on the high-pass switch I have it set to 80. On the lo-pass knob i have it all the way to 120hZ. I have the phase switch to 0. The crossover is at 50hZ. The speakers are set to large. And the sub is hooked up on the sub pre-out on the receiver. The FREQUENCY RESPONSE is 34Hz-20kHz±3dB for the KLF-20's. I guess what I was trying to ask is what would be the proper way to have the sub blend in with the mains using the crossover and all of that other stuff i mentioned above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted January 9, 2002 Share Posted January 9, 2002 bad, are u saying u have both a low pass knob & a crossover knob on the velo sub? ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badfan Posted January 9, 2002 Author Share Posted January 9, 2002 boa, yes i do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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