plissken99 Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 I'm looking get seperate amps to drive my RF-7 based system this year. Does anyone have opinions on solid state vs tubes? Because we have the AMC 2030 tube amps for around $500 that produce only 30 watts per channel, vs solid state amps that can produce 200w or more, for less money. I know the Klipsch speakers are known to be very effecient, but 30 watts? Also, does anyone know specifically about the 5 or 7 channel Sunfire amps? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 " Because we have the AMC 2030 tube amps for around $500 that produce only 30 watts per channel," The AMC 2030 is a very nice amp. I've owned a few of them. Be advised there is a 2030s model and a regular 2030. The s model has tubes that can be removed. The regular model has soldered in tubes. The tubes do last quite awhile in the 2030 due to the amps heat management system. The AMC 2030 operates in class A mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 I could say, "How loud do you want to play them?" If regular to lower volumes only.. maybe tubes. (I doubt this is why you bought RF 7's in the first place.) Tube amps might be a better choice with the older heritage line up. If you want rock solid lows, I would suggest the SS with good clean plentiful watts. RF 7's need some good wattage, and also a good amp to handle the lower ohms too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSoundBroker Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 Small tube amps work great with most Klipsch speakers. You noticed that word "most". The RF-7 doesn't fall into that category. Figure a near 2 ohm impedance dip down at the resonance point of the woofers and you can pretty much eliminate a 30 watt/ch amp from the RF-7 camp. What that spekaers likes is horsepower. Great big steaming piles of horsepower. A good solid 300/ch is where it is going to start getting happy. Best combo I ever heard with RF-7's was with a Bryston 4BSST at 300/ch into 8. There ARE some tube amps that will work, but think more along the lines of giant VTL/Manley Labs, ARC or CJ with boatloads of glowing glass. At the price of those beasts, you'd be better off selling the RF-7's, getting some LaScala II's, a kick *** sub system and a smallish tube amp...and you'd probably save some money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plissken99 Posted January 15, 2008 Author Share Posted January 15, 2008 This is excellent info, Nice to know what aim for now. I'll bet the Bryston 4BSST is awesome with the RF7's, it oughta be for a 3k+ stereo amp. What are some good powerful 2 channel amps in the $500 and under catagory(or can be had for that when looking in the places, or used)? Or multichannel amps, like Sunfire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 I know the Sunfire could handle the RF7's no problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankphess Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 The RF-7's will sound very good with high current solid state amplifiers that can handle low impedance loads, i.e. Sunfire, B&K, Rotel, Aragon. If you're going to try a tube amp, at least make sure it has a 4 ohm tap and use that. My guess is that a $500, 30W amp isn't going to produce the best results, unless low-med volume in a small room is what you're after. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSoundBroker Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 If your gear is in a cabinet, look at the Face Audio F500TS amp. Reason I say in a cabinet is that this is a pro amp and thus has fans. Reason I like it is because those amps are the closest I've heard to the Bryston and they are also beautifully built. Disclaimer...yes I sell both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 welcome back TSB.. good comments...and reasons why too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSoundBroker Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Thanks. Been stupidly busy with my other company that is growing like a fungus (MoldBuster). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plissken99 Posted January 16, 2008 Author Share Posted January 16, 2008 Well of course most of these things go astronomic in price. From what I can tell, the Sunfire 5 or 7ch 400w per channel amps are the most reasonably priced at $3000 and $3500 respectively(considering thats a thousand under retail). Anything comparably priced I should look at? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankphess Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 Check Audiogon periodically as used gear is added each day. You can also search by zip code if you'd rather find something in your area. And buying used, you can try it for a while then if you're not happy with it, just put it back on Audiogon for close to what you paid. Buying new is like buying a new car, the value depreciates as soon as you take it home, so you'd better be sure it's what you want when buying new. Below are a few 200w solid state amplifiers on Audiogon right now. Good luck in your search. B&K - 7 channels @ 200 - http://buy.audiogon.com/cgia/cls.pl?ampsmult&1204442641 Rotel 5 @ 200 - http://buy.audiogon.com/cgia/cls.pl?ampsmult&1205610646 Aragon 3 @ 200 - http://buy.audiogon.com/cgia/cls.pl?ampstran&1205645167 Sunfire 2 @ 300 - http://buy.audiogon.com/cgia/cls.pl?ampstran&1205379443 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 99, Please post your room size, subwoofer or music listening preference in your profile. That way, thoughtful posters can post meaningful, unique and specific answers to your situation without simply spouting unfounded generalizations. Tube amplifiers are high current amplifiers. They are not automatically better with the Heritage series. They are better with speakers of high efficiency and sensitivity – which includes Klipsch’s classic series. High efficiency loudspeakers, like big ole horns and the Reference series towers, don’t need gobs of costly horsepower! What high sensitivity speakers, and your ears, like is bass control, resulting in a flat, on-axis, frequency response. We interpret this as accurate, musical and uncolored. In the long-run, such systems are easy to listen to, with little or no mental or ear fatigue. Whether you go solid-state or tubes, you still need a very good sub. A sub-woofer has an active solid-state amplifier dedicated to reproducing the high energy and low impedances of deep and large bass waves. A sub frees up the main speakers for either high quality, low-power and low-cost amplifier power, whether it be digital class D, solid-state or tubes. The sub has to be large, powerful and deep enough to blend in, and extend, the bottom-end of big ole horns and floor-standing reference series. Of course, room nulls diminish your investment in a very good sub by sucking up bass, and worsening soundstage, imaging and details. So you also need some room treatments, like the RealTraps acoustic panels! See how it begins? Becoming a tweaking audiophile is a vicious cycle. As I much as I love my flea-powered tube Bottlehead 2A3 Paramour amplifiers with my classic Klipsch corner Khorns, your RF-7 towers dip below 3-ohms in the bass frequencies. This means that a good solid-state or a very good tube amp (with a crossover upgrade) is needed to hear their full potential. This can be done easily in two-channels with solid-state receivers that sound good with super-sensitive (95dB/w/m) Reference models. Consider dirt-cheap vintage dual transformer Harmon/Kardon 430-930 models and other mammoth high-quality vintage brands, such as the more expensive, but wonderfully revered, McIntosh receivers. It can also be done with refurbished vintage integrated tube amplifiers, if you dial your powerful subwoofer to add a little more mid-bass to the bottom. I heard the copper-faced Cayin TA30 integrated EL34 tube amplifier (less than a grand) do a wonderful job with RF7s and Khorns at preacherman Daddydees’ May 2004 Klipsch gathering in Little Rock, Arkansas. They were almost as good as the Khorns. Of course, the RF-7s sounded much better after a popular Klipsch poster upgraded their crossovers. The crossover upgrade does many subtle things. The primary effect however, is to smooth out the low bass impedance dips. This makes the loudspeakers much easier to drive, especially for impedance challenged tube amplifiers. ASL also makes great integrated tube amplifiers for less than a grand. The AQ 1003 DT is far more power than my ultra-sensitive (104dB/w/m) big ole horns need, but it should be plenty for Reference models. All of this is two-channel. I do not know of any multi-channel tube amplifiers or receivers… yet, but some people drive their front channel main loudspeakers with tubes and let solid-state drive their subs and surrounds (which are mainly for special effects anyway). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plissken99 Posted January 16, 2008 Author Share Posted January 16, 2008 I keep forgetting to list what I like to listen too and room size. The room is 22x15.5ft. The system is primarily for movies, but more and more I enjoy music on it, especially concert DVDs. I primarily like rock(ranging from heavy metal to southern rock to grunge and everything in between), with some blues and Nine Inch Nails(as their pretty much in a catagory all their own). Steve Vai and Joe Satriani on a Klipsch system is audio bliss! I already have a great sub in the SVS PB2+, two 12in downfiring woofers with a 900w amp in it. So your saying the RF-7s don't require 300w or more to live up to their potential? Even a good 200wpc amp will do? I have thought about getting a 2ch tube amp for the front channels, and a 5 channel amp to drive the rest. But would it sound odd or uneven somehow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Appleskinner Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 The Onkyo Integra M-504 and M-508 amplifers are in your price range and have plenty of juice to make your RF-7s sing...both very nice, powerful amplifiers with a smooth, controlled sound that would suit all types of music. You would not be disappointed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael hurd Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 http://cgi.ebay.ca/QSC-PL380-8000W-amplifier-amp-C-STOCK-PL-380-PL3-PL-3_W0QQitemZ260203512354QQihZ016QQcategoryZ23787QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem QSC PL380.... 1500 w per channel in 8 ohm stereo... 4kw into 2 ohm stereo... Never ever have the amp clip, enough power for transients..... ( or launching cones ). A BARGAIN at $ 1995 BIN ( at least compared to traditional "Hi-falootin" amps ) Requires 30 amp service with twist lock plugs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfandbark Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 I like lotsa power, but, WOW! I love the 30A dedicated circuit. What do you cool that with, dry ice?(insert smiley) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mas Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 Look at the Crown XTi series of amps. You don't have to spend more than $500. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael hurd Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 Look at the Crown XTi series of amps. You don't have to spend more than $500. How much power in reserve do you want for transients? How much average power is being used to produce desired ouptut level at X distance in room? These are all valid questions. Now Mark, you might not want to spend more than $ 500, but there are people on here willing to spend up to and including $ 4 KILObucks for some super duper exotic power amplifiers that promise to slice, dice, puree and even broil. Dynamic music ( not Itunes super duper compressed ) can have HUGE transients. Lets see.... what is 20 db above a drive level of 50 watts? Hint: 18 db above 50 watts is 3200 watts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mas Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 ... there are people on here willing to spend up to and including $ 4 KILObucks for some super duper exotic power amplifiers that promise to slice, dice, puree and even broil. Then buy Lab Gruppen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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