mark1101

I had to do exactly the same thing with my corns to accomodate the tree for a month or so. One comment, if your pictured setup improves your imaging, then my friend it sounds like you need to look at your normal speaker placements. If you can put them together and the sound improves, your setup needs an adjustment. Something is less than optimal. It sounds like they are too far apart. When I put mine together to accomodate the tree, the sound changed but not for the better. I spend alot of time finding the optimal placement for imaging as I have discussed in other threads. Hope you find your spots after the holidays.

lynn, Good facts and opinions. In fact I agree with most of what you say here. Klipsch markets to each relevant segment very effectively and definitely edges the competition in most or all of the segments in performance for about the same prices as the competition. However, when you touch the product it is so damn cost reduced. It just doesn't feel like quality to me (yeah those others feel cheap too). I'm just not interested in anything that cost reduced. When you think about how they get it to perform, I guess it is quite a feat though. Yeah, they would have died if they kept on with just the Heritage line, I agree no doubt That's why I say they took an about face. I think from day 1, even the Heritage series was a niche product. It didn't just become one because times changed. It was an exclusive product right out of the gate. It was expensive back in the day and wasn't a mass marketed product like synergy. Klipsch was known for high end niche audio speakers. Today they are known differently. That's the about face I speak of. Fred simply had more of a business mind than Paul it would seem. So when you get down to it, it just makes me a little pissed off that a pair of Khorns are $6500.00 (I could see $3000.00), and LaScalas are around $3900.00. It's almost like they don't want you to force them to actually make a pair.

It seems the Khorns would be the most difficult of all to work with since they can not be moved without building the false walls. I suppose you could figure out how they sound best and then actually build a room for them. I read that some of us do that. Maybe that's why the LaScala came along. So you wouldn't need to build a special environment. I still wish I had Khorns and all those imaging issues.

I don't think anyone is saying Fred is not a success. Of course he clearly outclassed PWK in marketing and sales. But the company took an about face to accomplish this. Rtrott seems to suggest that since Fred took over, the product has been cheapened. I think that's what he is saying. I agree that's what happened, among other things. I read around this forum at the many complaints about product defects and such. How many years do you think the reference series will be around? Do you think you'll be able to find many pairs of 20, 30, and 40 year old reference products? Let's not even discuss a 20 year old synergy product. Yeah, Klipsch makes lots of money. What a success Fred is.

I have been so busy lately I haven't been reading as much here. I must have missed the opening thread calling first attention to this shorthorn. Or I forgot. One thing I do agree on is not drawing attention to the Klipsch deals late in the EBay game. But on this one I figured if a forum member really wanted the thing we would see higher than a hundred bucks on it (and more than 1 bid) on the last day. It's a 1956 horn. As far as I'm concerned it's yours. You don't need to be up tight about it. It's a freekin' speaker. I always post here about decent Klipsch deals on the bay. That's nothing new for me. I would never intentionally try to wreck someone's deal. So, sorry about that. It should be over by now. Did you get it?

Rtrott, Right on the money, absolutely true. Sorry Klipsch.

Guys, There is a single 1956 shorthorn on the bay sitting at $102.00. It's a pick up in New orleans. At the risk of uncovering a forum sandbagger, someone here ought to grab that thing. Reserve not met. Maybe a moot point to try and get it cheap. Anyone live near New orleans? I'd take it but I can't drive to get it for a while.

It looks like you have about 9 x 11 to play with. That's a small room. If it was my room I would have a pair of heresys and a subwoofer. Probably an EQ as well. The stools are probably not effectively coupling the RBs to the floor and thus the drop in bass. Did you try the sweep with the speakers on the floor? For such a small pair I would put them back into the corners for better bass. There will be some trade offs. You can pick up heresys on ebay for a song on any day ($250 and up depending). Of course these comments come from a loyal heritage fan. Enjoy.

Kelly, You seem to emphasize how well your cornwalls image. I stick to my comments. Mine image but since I have the speakers listed below and several different room setups, the corns have just been more difficult. I notice this easily because I can play a cd on one system, walk upsatirs and play it on another. Then I find myself making changes here and there sometimes. BUT, maybe I haven't found the corns favorite snack yet over the years. You mention getting them out from the walls. The furthest I ever had them out was about 1 1/2 feet. I have seen many diagrams, one in a thread yesterday which shows speakers way out. You can walk around the whole system. I can do that in my basement if necessary. Can you describe your room dimensions and speaker placements to get this wonderful imaging with corns? One thing I can say is the depth, what little there is, definitely increased some with the tube equipment. No doubt there.

Max, Some people might get a little upset with this comment, but I have used Klipsch Heritage speakers for over 20 years. Their weakest characteristic has always been their imaging. You can get them to image, but they are like tuning a race car. You need to adjust, adjust adjust. Anything you change, adjust again. When I say adjust, I mean move them, sometimes just 6 inches to a foot. Especially with old cornwalls. The biggest issue with this in my opinion is that the horns project the sound to the point that most rooms are simply too small to get the best possible effect. If someone asked me what is the optimal distance to listen to LaScalas (loaded question). I would say the best LaScalas ever sounded to me was from almost 100 yards away outdoors at a party I attended. When it got dark out (important) The horns project and need distance to develop their full envelope. I know everyone here describes their little 12 foot room and how perfect the image is. But IMHO, a speaker like a Khorn or LaScala is very restricted in a room that size. Not saying that they can't sound good, just that they are not able to develop their full potetial. So the best you can do is try to adjust for best image. And everyone will tell you somehting different because that's what it takes, adjusting. Everyone will have different results. I do not get the deep sound stage you describe from any of my klipsch systems. I get an excellent side to side stage where the speakers can disappear if set up correctly. My SONY "HT in a box" ($399.00 for reciever and speakers) gives the "deep" sound stage you describe. The speakers absolutely envelop the room. You can not tell where any of them are. Cheap but good! You take your Klipsch outdoors, and when it gets dark, to me that's the best they will ever sound. You'll get your long and deep stage and them some.

The sweetspot cat is named Jessie. She's going on 6, and she's here with me now laying right between my LaScalas about 6 feet back. It's 7:20AM, and she's doing it again. Right in the sweet spot. I have the news on the radio, no music. She doesn't care how loud the music goes, she still does her sweetspot thing almost all the time. I'm glad to here I'm not the only one with a pet who likes music. I'm thinking the real reason an animal, especially a cat, might do such a thing (find the sweet spot) is probably instinctual for safety purposes. I would bet that they try to find the spot where the reflections are least and the sound hits their ears in a way that most allows them to tell where things are coming from. I think the sweet spot might sound the safest (most balanced) to their brain with respect to differentiating other sounds that could spell danger. I could be wrong, but cats have some strange behaviors. They seem to go overboard just to stay safe. Jessie is the most over paranoid animal. It's hilarious the things that spook her while the other cats just lay there. The vacuum cleaner messes her up bad!! But loud music draws her right to it. Anyhow, I think it is supercool to have my audio loving cat and watch her find the best place to hear the music. She is a great pet.

I know you are all going to think I'm nuts but I asure you I'm not. Maybe some of you have pets with the same "talent". I have 3 cats. It took me a couple of years to realize it, but one of them (a very timid one) truly loves music, especially the Dead. And she knows how to find the best sounding spot in the room. When ever I play one of my systems, this particular cat will eventually (almost immediately) come into the room with music and snake her way around the furniture until she knows she is safe in the room. Sometimes it will take her 10-15 minutes to feel safe and come out into the open area. She walks around and around (usually back and forth) and eventually settles somewhere almost perfectly centered between the speakers about 6 to 8 feet away. Now that I know she does this, I usually watch her and how she gets herself adjusted. I know this sounds crazy, but I can tell that my system is balanced or not by where she lays down. One night I lost a channel on my basement system because the other cats got behind my PC and caused some wires to come out. The other cat was found laying about 6 feet away from the speaker that was playing, and she was laying right in front of it. I could go on and on. I thought about posting this because we set up our X-mas tree and I had to put the corns together, as in touching each other, on one side of the TV so the tree could be on the other in a corner. Tonight I started playing some of Gary's Dead music that we exchanged. The cat immediately jumped up and walked over to the corns, walked around and around, and layed down exactly on the center line of where they are touching, and she is about 8 feet away. I need to make a video of this. It will be very easy, and funny to watch. She does this all the time. I don't know, you tell me.

Guys, Thanks for all the good info. And thanks to the guys who actually tried the other taps to find the best scenario. I'm going to do the same this weekend.

OK, thanks guys. Ryan, in school I always learned the version of this that you present. However, to the rest of the guys with Scott's, specifically what tap are you using with corns, LaScalas, and Heresys to get best sound? I'm just tyring to see what everyone is doing out there to get the best sound. In other words so I don't have to screw around as much. I think Ryan is technically correct however.

As far as soundstaging goes, I have found the corns to be most difficult to tune, LaScalas next, and heresys easy. In fact the Heresy design soundstages great almost any way they are set up from my experiences with them. No problem there. To me the biggest issue with the corns is spacing them at the proper distance so as to not lose the center and having them sound individual instead of as a stage. This can be tricky. I have found optimal distances from one another varies allot depending on the room and surroundings. I have also found that moving one speaker a mere 6 inches to a foot can create heaven from hell. I do usually toe in, but have found that the best for me is to point the speakers at the ends of the couch. In other words, not at a sweet spot target, but instead create the whole couch as the sweet spot. This has helped give much better bass. I also always use the wide wall of the room as the stage. In other words play to the short dimension of the room, not to the length of the room. This change in placement made the biggest difference. I also space the speakers from the side wall enough so you can walk outside the sound field, or around the outside of the horns. All were improvements for me that I learned here over time. The corns are the tough ones.

You guys must have some cast iron ears. I listen to my 299 system typically at around 10 to 11 o'clock. If I go to 12 or past, whew. The neighbors come over looking for beer. They know what's going on. In fact I have never actually tried to see how loud the Scotts go. I like it loud, but it just gets too loud.

Which impedance tap are the Scott powered folks using and what difference do you notice? I have both of my Scotts on 8 ohms and everything is fine. I read that some are using the 4 ohm tap. What does that buy you? Thanks for the info.

Hey Craig, You can send them to me if smilin' doesn't want them. They are identical to my '73s, just a little older. Have you tried them with a 299?

Craig, Thanks. Now I can see I have Auricaps all the way through on tape and tuner, what I use all the time. By the way, both amps operating perfectly and sounding great. The little 222 is fast becoming my favorite. I think I am just begining to favor the Las over the corns, which I never did before. I still have not switched the amps to try the opposite combo. Too busy, but eventually I will. Your amp looks clean and pretty. Yellow beats orange though.

Hey Craig, Nice picture!!! I'm sure glad I'm sending my amps up to you from down here in Georgia. Nice fish too but that picture just goes to show that rednecks are everywhere, even up in Michigan. Ha Ha. Got a hemi in that truck????

Craig, What do the 2 preamp tubes on the far right / bottom of your picture controlling? Are those the phono section? Can you explain what each of those 4 preamp tubes control, so I can understand the layout? I compared your pictures to my before and after pictures of my 222 that you rebuilt. There are Auricaps all over except those 2 bottom right preamp tube positions and at the 2 phase splitters. I believe you used Russian film and foils in those positions then went back to Auricaps for the outputs.

Sorry, But it sucks for all of us when you guys are nice to each other. Cut it out. I won't learn anything new this way.

It's too much of a coincidence that both woofers don't work, and that they are completely silent. Just guessing, something is not connected correctly or at all. Hope that's it. Let us know.

On my Denon amp the same signal appears at both the tape out and VCR out. If you have this "feature" on your Yamaha you can have matching output signals for the 2 amps in question.

Smilin, Man you are going to have some very awesome toys. Congrats. My advice would be do not skimp on the rebuilds of the Scotts. I know you have 3, and it's going to cost you, but have Craig take his time and get you your favorite done up first to the max. Go with the high end caps. Just my opinion. The other thing is you are going to love those '73 corns!!