Deang

Dave, You gotta fill us in. Equipment Room Size Placement Etc.

Sure is nice seeing some of the top brains of the outfit handling a slight difference of opinion in such an intelligent and calm manner. Of course, a technical slug fest between you two would have been pure bliss. Well, from the day I received the Quicksilvers, I've had them on the 4 ohm taps of the transformer because of the known dips in the RF-7's impedance. I had the RF-7's wired this way with the Apollos, and didn't see any reason to change this on the Quicksilvers. A little of topic here, but not really I guess -- the literature with the amps say they put out 60 watts whether on the 4 ohm or 8 ohm taps. I don't really understand how this can be possible. Just think, going to 4 ohms halves my power. If I wire them in triode I halve them again. Before I know it, I'll have 8 EL-34 tubes giving me less than 20 watts. Yeesh. I actually like the Ultralinear sound with my music quite a bit, so I'll be leaving them this way for a time. As far as adding the resistor goes, I think I'll give it a try. As far as non-flat response goes -- ain't many of us getting that anyway. Between room acoustics, and running tube amps on speakers with less than ideal impedance curves -- who knows what the real response looks like. Hey, if it sounds good -- who cares? One thing Leo. If you look at the impedance curve of the RF-7, and average the whole thing out -- it's really a 6 ohm nominal speaker. Based on this, what do you think about me trying 12 ohm resistors instead? The idea is to get a 4 ohm load at the amps outputs, correct?

So Kelly recommends the Rega. This is good. EVERYONE recommends the Rega Planet. I've never read a bad word about it. I would only hesitate to buy one because they are getting along in years somewhat, and CD players are prone to early failures if not treated with some care over time. Personally, I stay here because of the somewhat relaxed atmosphere, and I can say what I want without having to worry about being flamed. I used to post at the Asylum -- but any post has the potential for igniting a war. It gets old. I consider Kelly somewhat eccentric and rather unique. Though I think he is out of his mind sometimes, I have stepped into waters I normally would not have, and have come out with an understanding of his perceptions -- and am the better for it. I bought the Scott because of Kelly's love for vintage sound, I bought the Superamp because of his preference for low power, I bought the Apollos because of his kinship with SET, and I waddled into cable hell -- and in all this -- finding that most of what he said is true. In the end, I go in a different direction, trading some transparency for more control and authority in my music -- but this does discount any of his opinions. At any rate, I'm enjoying my music at an unprecedented level because of him. I'm also prone to multiple revisions of my posts. I read them once posted, and realize the verbiage I employed didn't really get my meaning across -- so I change it. Then I notice a letter missing from a word, and then a grammatical mistake. I care enough to fix the post. I consider Kelly a friend, and I can only say that if some of you cannot contribute something positive to the forum in the form of suggestions to advance listening pleasure -- you might consider going somewhere else. Please.

I don't think I'm experiencing the "suck out" phenonmena in that room upstairs. The bass is there, the treble is just tipped up a little. When I got home from work tonight, I thought I sensed a more rounded nature to the sound. I'll continue to abuse the RF-7's until they fall in line. At any rate, lot's of carpet, and I'm a piddly 8 feet away. I suppose I'll set some cushions up just to see what the effect is (as long as no one is looking:) No, The RF-7 is not a Cornwall or K-horn. With Heritage you get a wonderful BIG sound. With the RF-7's, you get velvet intimacy. When I'm in need of therapy, I go upstairs. I still think at the very low volume levels -- the Cornwalls and RF-7's sound very similiar. At higher levels, the RF-7's are rock steady, and the treble is gorgeous -- not an adjective that comes to mind when I'm listening to the Cornwalls. Man, you got a thing for resistors. Because it's you -- I'll do it. I guess I just connect positive and negative together with the resistor at the speaker binding posts? Yeesh, that's wierd.

Those last couple of posts are interesting. "Allison suckout" huh? Must steal couch cushions -- at which point my wife will call the men in the nice white jackets. "Guys, let me tell you, Leo is not only a REAL gentleman, he is one awesome engineer. I swear the guy can do multivariable, simultaneous equations in his head while having a conversation, and breaking down some jazz construct in 9/8!" Yes, I sensed this about him myself early on. What is truly wonderful about you Leo, is how you never once talked down to me, or made me feel inept in our email conversations. I must have had your eyes rolling up in the back of your head with those PCB questions. LOL!

Don't let your mind become overly infected with everyone else's ideas of what sounds 'best'. What do your ears say? Does it sound good or bad? Tubes are wonderful yes -- but you might take a real beating on that thing if you try to sell it. Trust your ears, and if you decide you want to try something different, you might be better off keeping it, and saving for an affordable tube amp so you can compare and make up your own mind.

I sure never had a problem with you popping in here with that recommendation. We all went tube crazy over here -- but I used solid state for a long time -- and still think it can sound real good. I'd rather have a HK 430 than a 3 watt amp.

Nice post Andy. Again, the nice thing about the HK is the low power and so no doubling up of transitors. If I had K-horns -- I wouldn't run them with more than 25 watts.

Craig's standards are pretty high, and he's gives them a good going over. Anything even remotely suspect gets yanked and replaced. Resistors showing some drift get replaced, and he changes out all of the coupling capacitors. His favorite caps are some Russian film and oils he keeps getting his hands on. An excellent sounding cap -- they just take a long time to break in (I've had my 299b back from him about a month now -- and things are just now starting to really jel). I believe he also yanks and replaces the selenium rectifier in the bias supply. All tubes are tested and replaced as needed. He also mods them with this really cool biasing scheme -- so even a moron like me can do it without electrocuting himself to death.

I hope you're right about the break in. I need more bass, and the best way to get it is to have that midrange and treble relax a little. I already removed the spikes from the RF-7's to get some coupling to the floor, and moved them back almost another foot. I'm enjoying the clarity though, and it's so clean -- it's easy to ignore the forwardness. Last night I was really noticing the lack of congestion during complex passages. Everything just hops along. Sweet.

We are not a democracy. We are a Republic. That way, the opinions, desires, and rights of the few are not trampled down by mob rule.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part4/4p2951.html http://www.nationalcenter.org/FugitiveSlaveAct.html You should always list your sources, and use quotes when "quoting".

We're on the brink of WW III -- and you're worried about me starting a "word" war. Words of wisdom from "The Idiot".

"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind." Ghandi

Cause it's a dirty, gritty push-pull pentode amp -- only good for one thing. Serious Rock-n-Roll

Never mind.

Fini hit that one on the head. Besides, my 'nuke' topic was more of a joke, poking fun at the General Forum -- I then decided to go head and cut and paste the news article because it was interesting. If I would have posted it in General Forum, I'm not even sure anyone from 2-channel would have seen it -- and that was the audience I wanted.

hee hee, with them wimpy two-ways -- you ain't never going to hear the difference anyway.

I suck working with wood, can't I just sit a couple of my kids on top of the Cornwalls while I listen?

I have it bad too, "I think, therefore it is". There is also a little trick I used to get this stuff on that I didn't mention. After wiping the basket down with IPA, I got a small bowl of water, and I would keep my fingers damp as I pressed and smoothed the caulk on. I think I actually used 6 strips per speaker, and pressed it on hard -- big time. My hands were sore when I got done. I also used one strip, and placed it all the way around the back (again, pressed down and smoothed out), on the same plane as the screw holes. I even used a strip around the front of the squawker when I put it back in. Did you actually do this 95/100db 'test' with only four screws in place? Believe me, you gotta have that back on tight when you do this -- or you're going to lose much of the benefit of the tweak. My next step is to replace the back with some MDF covered with Spectra Dynamics Deflex Panels. Money permitting, I'd like to do most of the inside of the cabinet. You can see this stuff in Mike Percy's catalog www.percyaudio.com At some point, I'll do my 'shortcut' riser tweak (see the Cornwall riser thread somewhere below). I'm undecided about the crossover. If I do anything at all, I'll probably stay with the type B design -- but upgrade the quality of the oils and change out the inductor.

I'm sorry -- I just couldn't help myself. SEOUL, South Korea (March 2) - North Korea warned Sunday of "nuclear disasters' around the world if Washington attacks the communist state, while its civilian leaders urged greater cooperation between Pyongyang and Seoul to ease the crisis on the Korean Peninsula. The North's official Rodong Sinmun newspaper accused the Central Intelligence Agency of preparing a surprise attack on the nation's nuclear facilities that are suspected of being used to make atomic bombs. "If the U.S. imperialists ignite a war on the Korean Peninsula, the war will turn into a nuclear war,' Rodong said. "As a consequence, the Koreans in the north and south and the people in Asia and the rest of the world will suffer horrifying nuclear disasters.' The report, carried by the North's state-run KCNA news agency, claimed that Washington put its forces around the peninsula on "semi-war footing' and "is pushing ahead with nuclear war preparations in full swing.' Pyongyang accuses Washington of inciting the nuclear standoff as a pretext for an invasion. Washington has repeatedly said it has no plans to attack North Korea, but stresses that "all options are on the table.' In Seoul on Sunday, North Korea's religious and civic leaders took part in inter-Korean religious masses and urged greater cooperation between the two Koreas. "Preventing war through national cooperation is the most urgent task of the nation,' said Ri Mun Hwan, a senior North Korean delegate. "If war breaks out, the South cannot be safe and the entire nation will face disaster.' Another delegate, Oh Kyung Woo, said the "United States is threatening a nuclear war, but if war breaks out both South and North will incur damages,' according to South Korea's national Yonhap news agency. "Foreign forces will never give us reunification. We must cooperate with each other,' Oh was quoted as saying. The comments were made during religious masses at a cathedral, a church, a Buddhist temple and other religious locations, which were attended by thousands of South Koreans. The ceremonies were a part of an inter-Korean festival to mark the anniversary of a major independence uprising against Japanese colonial rule on March 1, 1919. Pyongyang sent 105 delegates to Seoul on Saturday for the three-day festival. Both Koreas mark the uprising as a major holiday. Japan ruled the peninsula from 1910 to 1945. Rodong, monitored by South Korea's national Yonhap news agency, reiterated that the North's nuclear activities were "strictly for peaceful purposes and poses no threat to anyone.' "Crushing the U.S. plot to attack North Korea is a very important issue related to peace and safety of Asia and the world, the existence and future of mankind,' Rodong said. Raising tensions last week, North Korea test-fired a missile into the sea off its east coast. Pyongyang also reactivated a 5-megawatt reactor that could produce plutonium for nuclear weapons, U.S. and South Korean officials said. On Saturday, North Korea said nuclear war could break out on the peninsula at "any moment,' after South Korean President Roh Moo-hyun warned of a "calamity' unless the standoff is resolved peacefully and quickly. The dispute flared in October when Washington said North Korea had admitted pursuing a nuclear program, which violated a 1994 pact. Washington and its allies cut off oil shipments to the impoverished communist state. The North responded by saying it would reactivate its frozen facilities. It also expelled U.N. monitors and withdrew from the global Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.

"...and it sounds pretty darn good." The Sony's get more right than they get wrong. People that can overcome the Audiophile neurosis associated with buying a Sony machine end up pretty happy with them. Basically, the hair splitting isn't worth the stress. You could spend another couple of hundred dollars and have the machine modified -- beefing up the power supplies and what not, and would have a machine rivaling pretty much anything thing out there. Getting the right interconnect on that thing will take some of the zing out of the treble. I've been using my old cheapy MIT's the last couple of days -- and have about convinced myself again there is a 'rightness' to the sound I can't seem to get with some other things I've tried. I'd rather have a little zing in my treble than the emasculated treble audiophile decks have in an attempt to sound vinyl. The Sony's may have a little bit of zippity do dah at the top -- but it's clean, oh so clean.

It was becoming apparent to me that equipment change outs were not going to achieve the level of performance I was looking for. My first DQ-10 restore demonstrated that upgrading the quality of components in the crossover netted improvements in every area of things related to sound. I really wanted to implement some changes to the RF-7's, but without a schematic -- I was hesitant. Leo saved the day by tearing his down first, and ended up holding my hand through most of the project. We did however, end up taking different paths. I went with Auricaps and ICW's, and Leo went with the Jensen PIO's. I ended up building completely new boards, and changed out every part. Leo is still using the PCB's and two of the three original inductors. I also removed the Monster Z wire, and replaced it with the Northcreek silver over copper wire. The runs are all between one and two feet, and since they are after the crossover -- probably do not make as much a contributon to the improvement as the crossover parts themselves. I think using the wire in the Cornwalls made the difference it did simply because the old zip cord in the Cornwalls was in such bad shape. I also removed the birwire capability by going to two posts per speaker. The leads from the crossover are soldered directly to the back of the binding posts. In Summary Auricaps in the tweeter circuit ICW's for the Klipschcones Mills non-inductive resistors 14 AWG Solen Perfect Lay for the woofers Custom wound HF inductors from Madisound Northcreek 14 AWG silver over copper Dayton low mass binding posts Cardas solder The Results The noise floor is in the basement. Where previously I spoke in degrees of grain when comparing the various components I have had in this system -- there is now none. The midrange and upper treble is the cleanest I have ever heard come out of these speakers. I can easily drive them into the 110 db range without pain or earbleed. One thing I half expected to happen, and did happen -- is that these RF-7's are now tipped up somewhat. The treble goes on forever, and sometimes I wish it would stop. The midrange is more forward, but at this point it could just as easily be blamed on the EL-34's in the Quicksilvers. I will wait a couple of weeks, and then pick Leo's brain for a new resistor value for the bandpass circuit running in series with the horn. I am hoping however, that things settle in. Since I can modify the treble signature, the forwardness is of no consequence -- the emphasis here should be on the cleanliness of the output, and as I said, I do not believe continued equipment change outs would ever garner this level of clarity. The best sound is clearly achieved by having decent components and related parts from the beginning of the chain to the end. There is really no logic in using $2000 monoblocks to push a signal through $2 capacitors and oxidized wire. The Quicksilvers Mike Sanders of Quicksilver believes in minimal circuitry, and the Mono-60's have 5 parts in the signal path. Looking at the bottom of the amp, there seems to be less parts overall then the Apollos had. This simple ultra linear based circuit puts out 60 watts of EL-34, of which there are four per amp. Oh yes, more power than I need, and many, including Dennis Had of Cary, and even our very own beloved Pompous Azz would say "Power corrupts". I don't know if I can agree. The low order distortion of a SET amp running past it's limits produces distortion much more objectable to my ear than a well designed 30 wpc push-pull lazily lobbing along while producing the same output level in SPL. Since I don't own speakers with ruler flat impedance curves, or have sensitivity ratings climbing into the mid 100's, typically listen to music which I consider somewhat demanding, and enjoy the ocassional live session with the drywall shaking down around me -- will always end up taking low powered amps into areas they were simply not designed nor intended to be. That's just the way it is. The bantering regarding the 'best' circuit or tube type is a complete waste of time. There are just too many variables involved. I've had several different amps in my system over the last year. They all sounded great. I put the Scott on the RF-7's and it sounded great. It didn't sound like the Superamp did, but it sounded great. Did it sound as good as the Superamp? Yeah, it did -- but it was different. So, old pentode push-pull with lots of buttons sounds as good as new fancy class A triode amp with no feedback. Go figure. There are NO absolutes with this stuff. I got the Apollos -- they sounded great. O.K., they sounded really great -- but within limits. I don't like limits. I will refrain from comments attempting to compare the Apollos to the Quicksilvers directly -- as changing crossover components, internal wiring, speaker cable, interconnects, and preamps -- precludes making any valid comparison, so -- I'm off the hook. I can however, make a comparison dealing with the systems as a whole. Do I miss the Apollos and AE-3 DJH? Well, I miss the bass. The Apollos and AES combo definitely had better bass. OTOH, the leaness in the bass I am presently experiencing might be related to the tipped treble. I also know the EL-34 is generally speaking, somewhat limp-wristed in that area. I remember this same leaness in the bass when I put some Siemans EL-34's into the Superamp. Maybe my ears favor the beam and triode tubes over the pentode types? Of course, the Scott uses pentodes and I don't seem to have a problem with that. I would characterize the system I was listening to last month as tonally rich, with a softness in treble and good bass slam. Superior imaging and transparency were the order of the day, but with a propensity towards pinching and hardness when driven to live levels. The system as it is now -- excels in the area of speed. The Quicksilver sound is aptly named. The Monos sound 'fast' on the RF-7's. They remind me of the Superamp DJH in this area. At the low to moderate volume levels the two systems have much in common. I sure wouldn't say the differences are jaw dropping by any stretch -- and least not with my music (noise). I definitely have to give the Apollos and AE-3 DJH the edge in bass slam, and the Quicksilver/Cary combo taking the midrange and treble -- it is crystalline without giving in to sterility. The midrange of the Quicksilver/Cary combo sounds a little incisive -- but not near as cutting as the Superamp did. I'm sure the treble has much to do with the improved crossover parts. Since I never heard the Apollos with the RF-7 mods -- this statement is probably not fair. I will say at this point that in spite of slight forwardness, the midrange of the current setup sounds 'right'. The area where the Quicksilivers and Cary really shine is soundstaging. It's a big bold sound -- and something I had not experienced yet. With the Superamp and Apollos I could understand the concept of 'bloom'. With this setup it's not about bloom -- it's about 'explode'. Perfect. For now.

Everybody just said they liked your set up because they didn't want you to pull their arms out of their sockets.

I don't think any comparisons have been made with the Jupiter dircectly. I think those posts had to do with comparing the new Planet with original Planet. Hey, spend almost $2K on ANY unit, and it's bound to sound pretty darn good.