CAS

Please don't take this as anything derogatory Klipsch. I love em. But any money spent on a KSW, RW, or RSW would be much beter spent on an SVS. I understand the markets for both, but I prefer getting more for my money as opposed to retailing/advertising. They're just simply different. There are websites that bring together those in your area who would like to listen to "internet only" sold subs. You really do need to take a listen to them if that's the only way you'll buy. I don't think a lot of people understand the difference until it arrives at their house and they give it a good low frequency testing after calibration. Usually it's a resounding, "HOLY SH**!!" Just one more thought. During my most recent visit to my high-end home audio retail store we had a conversation about subs. The associate wouldn't mention them by name (actually, he eventually did), but he said that SVS makes the best subs in the world for the money, hands down. He said they would sell their souls in order to be able to retail these things and couldn't recommend me buy one of his instead of an SVS.

If you look around on ebay or similar sites, you'll find a down firing 12" Jensen sub for $99.00. I've heard that for that price you get unexpectedly great output from this thing, even though the name says Jensen.

Looks are very very deceiving when it comes to SVS. Unfotunately, when it comes to Klipsch the middle man is really taking a chunk of your cash, so you'll always get a lot more bang for the buck with SVS. I love Klipsch as you can see, but for a sub there's no comparison. It may be hard for some to buy without listening first, but you have no idea how happy you'll be. If you heard a side by side comparison you'd see what I mean. However, if it's worth the extra cash to be able to see the woofer and if the looks of the RW's are worth spending the extra money (and sacrificing some output), then the RW may be what you're looking for. I guess it comes down to sound vs looks. I just hide mine in a corner anyway so I go for the sound.

I'd tend to agree with what's been said so far. I think a very good compromise between $ and value would be the PB2+. The 1 and 2 ISD lines offer awesome value, but a few bucks more gives you a really good upgrade to the plus lines. Now the major upgrade to the B4+ is a hefty one in $ and in punch. In my opinion the Klipsch RSW's just don't give enough bang for the buck, but they are really really pretty. If cash isn't a problem, then the B4+ with Crown would be my monster pick, but a great average (and still shake your bones bet) is the PB2-ISD and Plus subs. Just yesterday I shook 3 pictures off the wall. 16 Hz is a killer

The Ears will probably give you a ballpark, but you have to understand that it really (REALLY) is not that simple. It has to do with enclosure size, design, amp size, quality, material, frequency response, equalization, room dimensions, dynamics, placement, listening position, port length, port size, interior wall materials, and a hundred other factors I can't even thing of. A given amp/speaker size/brand could give you anywhere from a mild dose of low frequencies to earth shaking. The same goes for huge subs. Would a radio shack 10 in sub with a 1500 watt amp (and a very large enclosure) give the same bass as a sunfire 10 with the same amp (and the smallest enclosure you can find)? In this case it's completely counter-intuitive. It's a very unique question who's only detailed answer can be reached by research and trial. After all: Why do you think there are hundreds of powered subwoofer discussion boards on the net?

Literally, I can't think of anything the RSW could possibly have over it...unless you need it to asthetically match the wood grain in the rest of your system. I love Klipsch (the rest of my entire system is Klipsch) but the PB2+ is 10 times the sub the RSW is. Get ready to shake the foundation of your house. Ps. 29 Hz and under is where the fun just starts!

Oh, and if you want the PB2+ to be a little more asthetically pleasing, you can remove the baseplate, prop the enclosure up on its side, and you'll have 2 beautiful front firing silver aluminum woofers staring at you. Cool!

Hooting Monkey... I'd get the Yamaha as the downfiring subs usually provide a pleasing and non-directional sound. That's a reputable company as well. ps. this forum is for people of all ages, so you may want to try to act your age

I'll third the motion. The SVS will have greater output and lower end, but probably not worth the price over the border. Now if you wanna dig a tunnel...

I've found one of the best compromises tends to be the SVS PB2+ as it has one of the best bangs for the buck. It'll level most any other sub (and your house) you can buy but it doesn't come in at the hefty price that the SVS PB2-ultra or the massive B4+ do. In general, however, your very best value will probably be with SVS. The HSU folk have some great deals, too.

Sorry if I bust some bubbles. I don't know how much I'm allowed to say on a Klipsch forum. I guess I'll find out. I've demo'd both (and you can tell by my signature what I went with). Unfortunately, it was a night and day difference. The SVS PB2+ is hands down the beast of these two. I think a previous poster (masterT) to this thread has the cylinder mixed up with the box SVS versions. The PB2+ is larger than the RSW 15 with a bigger footprint. The output and low end of the SVS is almost unbelievable. It just doesn't stop. It truly (no exaggeration) tests the structural integrity of my house. I'm quite sure I can shatter the glass on my end table clear across the room. If I want to crank it up I have to remove the glass top or it would break. Watching movies at reference plus levels shake my teeth and eyeballs so that the screen is hard to watch. I mean no disrespect in this statement, but there is really no comparison between these two. Also, don't forget the clarity; it really sounds like it isn't even there. It's just an extension of my mains. But don't take this the wrong way. It's not like it's really a fair fight to begin with. The enclosure is larger, both woofers are active, and the amp is much larger with (I think) over 3000 watts dynamic going to the drivers. Klipsch makes a wonderful product (as you can see all the rest of my speakers are Klipsch and I love them). But as far as subs go, those SVS guys just make an out-of-this-world product for a very cheap price. If you can demo a PB2+ you won't believe your ears. You'll see what I mean.

I'll look for a tool at the hardware store this evening if I can't find one at home. I sure hope the grills don't bend on their way out. If they eventually do, I wonder if I can order replacements...

Oh, one more thing. I forgot to mention (I think someone else mentioned it many moons ago) that the cutout template is WAY too small. I think I remember the exact cutout diameter needs to be 9 and 1/2". Just trace the inside edge of the styrofoam packing the speaker was placed in from the box as it conforms to the very edge that slips into the ceiling. Happy listening!

I use them as my surrounds in my home theater. They sound great (which they should seeing as they've got huge 8" woofers). The only thing I would mention is don't put on the grills before you calibrate your home theater. The tweeters rotate 360 deg and they can make a very big difference in rear imaging. I've found the best sound would be to angle them toward the walls (away from the seating area). Otherwise the sound varies too much from one position to the next, unless your seating area is not very big. I have a large seeting area so this does come into play. Overall I'm very satisfied. I just need to remove the grills and don't want to force them to the point of bending. Oh, and if you have the blown ceiling insulation (instead of the rolls), I've found that a 5 gallon bucket is a great quasi-enclosure to keep that insulation from mucking up the speakers. I just drilled a hole in the side of the bucket for the speaker wire and placed the bucket over the speaker (nearly perfect 11 and 1/2" diameter) for a nice sealed fit. I also placed a brick on top of each bucket to reduce possible vibrations. This has worked perfectly for me. Let me know how your install goes and what you think of their performance.

I've demo'd many subs in a lot of good (and bad) installations. The Sunfire subs are engineered very well and are awesome for their size, but if you place them wrong they're comparitively quiet in a decently large room. Well placed, however, they're very effective. But you're also paying a very hefty price in engineering such a sub to be in such a small enclosure. If you don't have those size constraints then you'd be much better off just getting a bigger sub for less $. I have a PB2+ and it's a monster that weighs nearly 150 pounds, but it literally shakes my floor to the point of worrying about structural integrity. I've never heard another sub (short of the B4+) that comes anywhere close for around $1000. It has 2 high output 12's and a 900rms (over 2000+ watts dynamic) amp. It makes a good end table, too. The point is if you have size restrictions then the sunfire would be good, otherwise you can get better for a better price if you want sacrifice some living room space. Oh, and ps. The PB2+ is crystal clear as well.

Just installed these ceiling speaks into my existing home. Seems the grills fit so on snuggly that I can't find anything that will remove them without possibly bending or damaging them. Any suggestions? I wan't to move the tweater a bit which is impossible without removing the grill. Thanks much!

Yeah, I think my dealer has got a pile of the "not so perfect" RC-25's and 35's. I've posted a reply in the other RC-35 thread and had concluded that this is what Klipsch meant them to sound like. This is not my first model with the problem. Perhaps I should really get in touch with the manufacturer at this point. Not that happy so far... p.s. But I am greatly satisfied with the rest of my Yamaha/Klipsch/SVS system.

---------------- On 11/4/2003 7:47:23 PM twiztidsals wrote: Is this hollow sound characteristic of Klipsch? ---------------- In my experience, it IS a characteristic of the Klipsch center channels to sound hollow. I've run synergy and reference centers and have found the same conclusion with both (I currently run RC-25's). Took them apart, took them back to the dealer and tested them against others, tested them with other channels/signal/amps on the same receiver...everything. I've gone through several just to find out that this is the way the manufacturer intended them to sound. It is bright on the mid/vocal ranges however lacks a bit of overall equality through the full spectrum IMHO. I've come across several threads throughout the internet that have come to the same conclusion. However, if it sounds VERY unnatural then you may very well have a defect on your hands. Chris p.s. Oh, forgot to mention...run your receiver's test tones and you'll see what I mean.