mikebse2a3

K77 responce in 5ms time. What I really hope to do with this program is search my room for audible problem reflections for acoustical treatment which I believe causes alot of the problems that we think are the speakers but actually room/setup problems.

here is K77 at 3ms gate time.

K77 graphs. these were taken with the squawker(K55V) unhooked from ALK Network. Please Note: these were taken with the radioshack SPL meter so the drop off in sound level as frequency goes higher is mostly because of the meter used.(hope to get a calibrated mic. soon) Notice as time is increased how the responce is altered by interfering reflections!! Like always what the ear/brain hears is different from what we can measure and I'm very pleased with the sound of my KHorns in the regions I've shown here. AL K, what did you notice of the sound in the squaker/tweeter region with your extreme slope network verses other networks with the stock drivers?

Finally the K55V on ALK network with K77 unhooked at 5ms. time. By now the room is getting involved. HOPE this interested some of you!!! Like I said early on I'm just beginning to learn this program and how to setup for these Test so I'm sure some things could be improved but it sure is fun playing with this program. mike

This is responce by 2ms. time. Also notice how soon the K55V cuts out using the ALK network. I probably should have terminated the tweeter output with an 8 ohm resistor for completeness but I thought this was good enough.

This is the K55V responce alone. The K77 was disconnected from the ALK network. The gate time is 1.4ms so you are seeing the responce just as its leaving the horn. the next two graphs will show how the responce changes as the time is increased so you are seeing reflections from the horn mouth ,Khorn cabnite and other close objects.

K55M/K77 1000hz-10000hz

Here is the K55M from 200hz-2000hz

This is the K55V/K77 with tweeter polarity reversed on ALK network. Some slight differences. The mic was on the Squawker axis and moving it would definitly change the looks of this responce.I haven't really noticed any difference in sound with K77 polarity changes.

K55V and K77 from 1000hz to 10Khz The radio shack spl meter was used for these test which is acceptable for alot of the test for this computer program but for truely accurate spl readings a callibrated mike would be necessary. I'm mostly looking at the differences between drivers and setups.

Sorry for the large post hopefully the third times the charm!!

Hopefully this is smaller version of graph of K55V Sorry image still big

Trial post of K55V graph this is 200hz to 2000hz with 5ms window. Trying to post smaller picture next

Thanks Al K. These are the solder terminal type. My 79 KHorns had been updated in the past with the K-55-M and AK2 crossover before I had bought them and I flush mounted the K77 to complete the update at that time. I installed a pair of your ALK crossovers(146A& early this year and have liked being able to adjust the autofomer settings(seem to prefer 5-2 with K-55-M and looks like 4-0 with K-55-V). I've always been curious about the K-55-V so I located this pair to try. I have a computer program (ETF5) that I'm learning to use and when I learn how I'll post some graphs of what I've seen so far. What I've noticed so far is that the K-55-M & K-55-V are very similar and reasonably smooth. Most of the roughness at(3500hz to 6000hz) appears to be caused by the interferance between the K77 and K55. The K55 is dying out quickly(by 7000hz) but I can sure see where a sharper cutoff on the K77 would help here. I also noticed on axis the responce measures smoother if the K77 polarity is wired in reverse like the K55 but If you are off axis it could go either way. I can't say you can really hear this change though it was just something I noticed. What I'm wondering now Al is would it be possible to modify the ALK crossover with out messing your crossover up to cutoff the K77 Quicker? Would appreciate any of your thoughts AL K! Thanks mike

Thanks Malcolm! You are probably right. Mike

---------------- On 6/25/2004 8:31:57 PM djk wrote: PWK claims 0.7" If you pull off the screen and measure it, I say 0.625" ---------------- Thanks djk for the correction. naof74 sorry if my answer was off. I was making an estimate based on the screen opening but after reading djk answer I relooked at my K-55-V driver. I didn't want to pull the screen out so I used a light so that I could see down the throat to the phase plug and set a dial calliper at .7" and it seems to match very close to me. maybe when someone has one apart they could measure it for us.

---------------- On 6/25/2004 6:24:04 PM naof74 wrote: I would like to know the throat size of K-55-V. Is it one inch? ---------------- Just measured one of mine and it looks to be 1" except there is a bug screen at the opening that reduces it to approx. 13/16". just in case you need to know the mounting size is 1-3/8" x 18 thread mount. mike

just bought two K-55-V drivers that came out of a pair of heresy spk on e-bay. I'm wondering what year these were made. does anyone know how to read the code dates on the drivers? No's are 196070 & 196886 thanks for any help mike

---------------- On 4/23/2004 7:45:50 AM StickMan wrote: John, thanks for the feedback. About two years ago I had a guy re-wire the AK-2's to remove the oxidized monster wire and re-configure the network for bi-wiring. Every since that time I have felt there was a slight but noticeable reduction in the "slam" or "punch" in the region where drum wacks ocurr. They just don't snap hard like before. So I have convinced myself that he must have done something incorrect. I thought that this would be the opportune time to upgrade to the AK-3 or ALk. By the way, in your opinion which of these would be best for 88 Khorns using tube amplification? thanks Howard ---------------- Just an idea, You might want to make sure they are sealed in the corners good since you've noticed a reduction in punch and slam because this could easly cause that problem. mike

neo33 ask? OK, Mark, that must be one helluva big cap in there. I switched the AE-1 from "operate" to "standby" and it continued to play on for about 5 minutes. But if I switched it to "off", it stopped playing immediately. What happen to the cap here? I believe what is happening here is when you go from "operate" to "standby" the tube's heater is still active letting the tube still produce current(sound) untill the "Plate voltage/Power supply capacitors" drain down. When you switch to off the "heater voltage" is removed and the tube stops producing current(sound) much faster. All this would be normal and it just shows the preamp has a large power supply reserve which is a good quality to have. mike

I had a pair of dynaco MKIV monoblocks that are basically like an ST70 and I had an intermitent Hum and hiss problem in one that would get better and worse when I would try swapping the 7199 out. I eventually found a Bad ground connection where dynaco grounded a circuit board trace to the chassis. these boards used solder over the traces and over the years the solder deteriorated under the screw holding the board to the chassis. Moving the 7199 just caused the bad connection to clear up temporarily. Like others have said I believe You should check out the Bias Supply Circuit since you can't set a proper bias. Mike

Hi Benesesso, I think the best answer is for you to try the seals and see how they affect your situation since all rooms have unique qualities that might affect your personel taste in sound and only you know what you like! As you can see in my first post I found a way to easly slip the seals in and out and found that a compromise worked the best for me at this time. It cost very little to try this so have fun and play with it. mike

Thanks DM I appreciate all the information and detail of what you've done with your room/speakers. I'm very curious about and will definitely be experimenting with the aiming of the KHorn's axis in relation to the room and my listening position. mike

Hi DM Great information in your reply! I'm thinking about trying false corners for various reasons and to see if aiming the KHorns toward me will improve things more. Can you give me more details on how you modified things so that you can aim yours. My room situation is similar to yours. Approx. 11.5' side wall to side wall. Believe me I like my KHorns spread {1st house 17.5'}, {2nd house 20.5'} with a Belle in between but the house I have now only has this former beedroom avaible for my dedicated room. At the back wall of this room I leave the closet doors open which gives me a depth of approx. 15' and with bathroom door open on back wall a depth of 20'. The door entering the room is at the back corner of the room so I have found leaving it open also sounds best. Now for how I've treated the room. I have {2} 16"x43" Tube traps {1} on each KHorn. On each side of these traps is a 8"x43" sound plank.I still have the Belle in the center(not using it till I get the room tuned to the KHorns). On top of the Belle is a 16"x48" trap with {2} 8"x48" sound panels flanking it on both sides and a 16"x38" trap on each side of the Belle. On each side wall are {2} studio traps with several more sound panels trying to kill interfering early reflections. At first reflection points on side walls I have RPG Skyline diffusors {so far I like this better than absorption at these points}. Back wall in former closet space has some traps of smaller size and a few sound panels to break up reflections. On the ceiling I have Sound Planks {5} rows {made up of 2' and 3' long planks} approx. 11' wide and 6" apart starting about 2' from the front wall for about 5' back I have a custom frame I've built so that I can vary the planks spacing from the ceiling as well as there location easly. I also have Skyline Diffusors on the ceiling in the rear/side of the ceiling in framework making them fairly easy to remove for experimenting. How does it sound? Well I wish I could say it sounds like my former 21.5' spread but thats not going to happen but my Vocals {Very Important to me} on really good recordings are very realistic with good height & real life size presence. I was having some trouble with an irritating edginess especially showing up on harmonica on some of my good blues CDs but this was eliminated by the skyline diffusors at the first reflection points on the side walls. The Low End Responce, I never would have thought I could get the quality of bass I'm getting in this size room. I can feel the Pressure Wave and hear the very Dynamic and Tight Impact of the low frequencys on good recordings. On good recordings I'm able to hear the echoes defining the walls of the room the recording was made in. I've got a computer acoustical testing program by www.etfacoustic.com now so I hope to study how to treat and locate acoustical problems better. Someday I hope to have a larger room again but till then I'll make the most of what I have so I can enjoy my Music/Khorns!! mike

---------------- On 3/2/2004 6:29:11 PM D-MAN wrote: Thanks, Mike Roger that on the room/horn issues... I would say in my case that the room is 99 percent of my problem... I use tube traps, too, and apparently could use more of them than I now have... DM ---------------- Hello DM What kind of problems are you having in your room? I realized many years ago that the room I'm using is really as important as the speaker I chose to use in determining the ultimate sound quality I was going to be able to reach. KHorns in a really good room for them created the most realistic reproduction that I've ever heard {Never Forgot That First Time Hearing Them and Eventually Had To Have Them!!!} but when the room isn't cooperating people would wonder what the big deal with them are. This hobby can drive you crazy trying to get things right if you let it so I finally realized that I needed the KHorns and To Do the best I can with room treatments and not constantly changing my equipment {once good quality equipment was put together that matched My Priorities in sound}.I Have noticed when the sound is wrong it isn't long before I have to get out of the room but when I get the room/system balanced right I get drawn into the music {sometimes for hours} and I've been surprised how much my taste in different music has expanded over the years! My KHorns are in the most difficult room yet that I've had to deal with but room treatment will get me the most I can in this room. mike