n2dablue

Here are a couple of pics... Like I said, this unit appears to be working very well, but I will be sure to check it out before putting it into full time duty. I agree that I wouldn't have paid as much as I did, but unlike an ebay purchase, I got to see and hear this firsthand. I also get to hand carry this back to the States in a box that I packed- I dont have to trust anyone elses judgement attention to detail. I feel this is a good deal even if I have to do some "work" to it. I have been soldering and working with electronics since age 12, and while I am more qualified with aircraft avionics systems than HV AC circuits, I am pretty sure I can read a schematic and swap out some caps and resistors if need be. Anyway, I will be sure to keep this updated, and will let you know how it goes when I get home. Thanks for reading! Paul

I went back and took a closer look, and had him hook it up for a listen. Sounded great even on the crappy test speakers, and with zero hum or other other issues. Walked out for $400US. I cant wait to get her home next week and try her out with some more deserving speakers. I'll post pics when I have some time to clean it up, but it really is a nice piece. Thanks to all for the input! Paul

Long story short, I am currently in New Zealand and will be returning to the States soon. While walking around downtown I stepped into a used stereo shop and asked out of curiosity if there was any vintage tube gear for sale. The gentleman pointed to an apparently very well cared for US spec "Stromberg-Carlson Stereo 24" integrated amp. He says it plays wonderfully and needs absolutely nothing. His inital asking price is about US$420, but I could probably get him down a bit. Now, to this point I have never heard of SC, and cant seem to find much of anything useful on the net. Does anyone know if this is something worth picking up either for myself or to bring back to the States to sell? I love my Fortes and have been wanting to try tubes before going all-out and getting started on my Scott 299C - based project. Furthermore, getting the amp home safely is not an issue at all; I am not flying comercial. Any thoughts or experience with the Stromberg-Carlson? I am coming home soon so any advice you can provide is much appreciated. Paul

I did not run the amp for very long, just a few minutes. I was just surprised as heck that it worked at all, and wanted to hear it. I know its in no shape to be operating right now. Yes, I have been lurking long enough to have a very clear idea about Craig's capabilities and reputation, and was glad that replied to this thread. I am leaning towards building my own chassis so that the integrated has the fit, form, and function that I would like for it to have. I am pretty "handy" and have a good background in electronics, among other things. I can solder fairly well, use a meter, and read a schematic, so I am hoping, with your guys' help I am not biting off more than I can chew. The challenge will be that tubes are particularly new to me, so Craig, there are probably gong to be a lot of questions coming your way, particularly about the circuit and modifications and such...I hope you don't mind!

last pic for now

next pic

Nice kitty, don't eat my amp!!!

Hey folks, not a big poster here, but more of a professional lurker, but felt that I now have a topic worth posting about. I picked this ugly duckling up for a pretty fair price on eBay last week- Total: $300 shipped 2nd day. I didn't really expect to receive anything that actually worked, but I gently powered it up on a variac and whadaya know, it started passing a signal at about 70 volts. Then I actually hooked it up to my Fortes and surprisingly sounds fairly decent, despite the medley of different tubes, and the appearance that it has never been worked on. I am fairly certain that this Scott is in need of some new caps at the least, as it does hum a bit, and seems to be lacking the power to handle anything over a moderate volume. This is my first experience with tubes, and so far I like what I hear and see, I am really quite excited. What I cant decide, is how I would like to go about getting this up to snuff to replace my current SS integrated. The face plate is pretty trashed and the Scott has a lot of goofy bells and whistles that are pretty nonessential, IMO; I was thinking of building my own chassis and using the transformers and basic 299C circuit design, minus a bunch of stuff that I don't really want or need (stereo selector, phase, loudness, scratch and rumble filters, indicator lights, balance control, center channel circuit), I'm sure you have the idea. Anyways, pics are attached, and are full size off the camera, sorry, 56k. What do you guys think?

Dakayus- Wow, about 2 years ago I was asking almost the very same questions that you are asking now. The only difference is that I had a set of KG4s that I wanted to sound their best on a budget. I have heard an A/B comparison between Denon's current stereo models (the 295, 395, and 685) and one of thier multi-channel units, configured for stereo use (it was a 380x - cannot remember the specific model). My opinion was that even the 295 sounded a little bit better than the 380x, and the 685 was much better than that. If I was going to go with a current-model Denon for stereo use, I would have purchased the 685. After that little outing, I had the opprotunity to pick up an open-box Onkyo stereo receiver for next to nothing. I brought it home and was very, very dissapointed, but in the sound and build quality...just wreaked of cheap, and for good reason - it was! After returning the unit, I was doing a some more homework, and ran into a great deal on an older Denon stereo receiver from the early '90s. The model I bought is the Denon DRA-835r, and I picked it up for a steal: $160 without a mark on it!!! In my opinion, this receiver is better sounding, and much better built than Denon's current stereo reciever line (even the 685), and am still using it today, with a pair of original Fortes. I believe the 835 was on the upper end of the line at the time, and I think Denon put more effort into their stereo recievers back then too. In short, it is a terrrific peice of equipment and will always have a place in my home, even when I switch to tubes. Yes, it came with a remote, and even if none is available with one that you find, just about any universal remote will have no trouble controlling it. I cannot remember the exact watts per channel, but I know it is 100 or more - Way, way more than you need to get those '75s singing nicely. I believe the warm sound you are looking for could be found in a DRA-835 or one of its bothers of that generation, the DRA-825, 1025 and I think there was a DRA-1035. They are not always on Ebay, but here is a DRA-825: http://cgi.ebay.com/Denon-Precision-stereo-receiver-amplifier-DRA-825R-huge_W0QQitemZ290064772345QQihZ019QQcategoryZ3279QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Anyways, just thought I'd throw in my $0.02 - feel free if you have any questions. Paul Larson

Just thought I'd update you all. We decided on shipping via Greyhound. They were each packed in a new, large wardrobe box, with plenty of protection. Each box cost about $70 US to ship. It took 5 days to get from Dallas TX, to Tacoma (near Seattle) WA. We picked them up at the local Greyhound station with no problems whatsoever. The boxes really looked untouched with no marks, holes, or dents. As a bonus, and much to my surprise, the Fortes are in better condition than the pictures on the auction would have you believe. All in all Greyhound was a good experience, at least this time around. I will definitely try them again next time I have something odd to ship. I am really enjoying the new speakers, in time I will upgrade to a tube amp, perhaps a modded ST-70, and a descent preamp, but even with the current setup, the grin factor is definitely there! Thanks to everyone for your advice.

One thing the seller did mention early on is that he was not opposed to exploring other options such as greyhound or baxglobal. Has anyone tried to ship via greyhound before? Their website says that they handle oversized and heavy weight freight. I got quoted for just under $100 per speaker. I wonder if its safer than UPS.... Thanks for all the input, everyone! Sorry, I didn't mean to start another cable/interconnect war!

Hello All, I have been a good bit of a lurker here for a year or so, and hopefully it wont be held against me too much, but I could use a bit of advice. I just picked up a what seems to be a good deal on a set of Fortes off of EBay. You can see them here: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSAA:US:11&Item=5804347558 The seller seems to be a good guy, but just as the ad says, he wants to ship them via a company called "Creighters and Freighters" which just quoted him $359 shipping (crated obviously) from near Dallas TX to near Seattle WA. All of a sudden I didn't get such a good deal. The seller wants to avoid UPS/FedEx/DHL due to risk of damage. I have had KG4s shipped via UPS before and they arrived in perfect condition, and come to think of it, I dont think I have ever encountered shipping damage in my life (knocking on wood). Should I try to talk him into shipping via UPS/FedEx/DHL? If the speakers were mint I wouldn't think twice before shelling out the extra $$, but as you can see from the picures the cabinets are nearly ready for some TLC already, and I am already thinking of restoring anyway. Advice / sharing of experiences would be appriciated. Thanks in advance. Paul Larson

Spooky? Hmmm, that doesn't sound very positive...What do you mean exactly? Could / would anyone say that the difference in sound between the Forte 1 and 2 is significant, or are they more similar in character of sound?

Gil (or anyone else who may know) I listened quite a bit to my folks' Forte 1 setup growing up, and for the last few years, been looking for a set of my own. I think I have found a seller for some 1's, but I cant help but wonder how different the 2's sound. Reason being because my fiance (next month my wife) has listened to the 1's and thinks the midrange is too forward. I have a feeling that this is the case because she is used to the sound from our KG4 setup, which is great, but a little lacking in the midrange detail, comparatively. My folks once listened to a set of Forte 2's and my dad, who struggled to put into words, said that compared to the 1's, the 2's were "not as live sounding" and "almost too refined". Can anyone who has had a chance to listen to both comment on this? Dad is a great musician, and has been around the block a few times, but I don't know how much weight his audio equipment opinions should carry... Any opinions would be appriciated. BTW, I listen to cd, SACD and DVD-A - just stereo, and the occasional movie. Currently using a Denon DRA-835 stereo receiver (early '90s good stuff) but plan to upgrade in a year or so to a tube setup - something like a Dynaco ST-70 with some sort of home brew tube preamp - likely to be loosely based on a Conrad-Johnson PV9 or 10 (brain fart). Thanks all!

Power you say? I found a Denon DRA-835R from Audiogon last year for $150 to mate to my KG4s. I had tried other new 2 channel recievers but this 10 year old receiver blew them out of the water. I recently found out from Denon that they last retailed in '95 for 800 dollars. They are rated 100 WPC @ 8 Ohms, I rarely go past 1/4 turn on the volume, as there is just no need, TONS of power to spare. The sound is just incredible especially with the price in mind, with the first phrase coming to mind being "warm and powerful, yet clean". I doubt with KG4s that you can really go WRONG with many amplifiers/receivers, but this is the most RIGHT my system has ever sounded. I have the DRA-835, but its brothers, the DRA 825, 1025 and 1035 are all of the same caliber, and there is usually one or two on Ebay. Denon's current 2channel receivers aren't as good IMO, the DRA-295, 395, and 685, all of which I have listened to. It really makes me whish Denon still cared about stereo.

http://www.stereophile.com/thefifthelement/1104fifth/ Who else owns this SACD? I feel kinda cheated, considering I am not interested in in the MultiChannel mix. What do you think of this? What do you think will happen, if anything?

I am having trouble digging though all the crapola looking for a universal with the following, anyone have a suggestion? *Backlit (not glow in the dark) *Learning *Directional buttons for dvd menus *Halfway fair price Will be using on a Sharp 27" TV, Denon DRA-835 receiver, and a Pioneer DVD/SACD player. (plus whatever stuff I buy later )

---------------- On 11/2/2004 10:23:21 PM psg wrote: I'm told the replacement Pioneer is not as good. ---------------- That is also my understanding. I cant remember the model of the 563A's replacement (could it be the DV-578 or something?) but it does some type of internal DSD-to-PCM downsampling, which in my opinion, kinda takes the "SA" from SACD, dont ya think? BTW, new 563's can still be found on EBay, if thats your thing.

If you are looking to just do 2 channel, I would highly suggest that you find yourself a 2 channel receiver. When shopping for my budget system (for my KG4s) I went to a store and A/B'ed a 380"x" (cant remember if it was a 2, 3, or 4) against a Denon DRA-295, 395, and 685, they are Denon's current 2 channel units. Using the same speakers, volume level, and CD player, even the cheapest DRA (the 295) sounded much better than the MultiChannel receiver running in Stereo mode. The DRAs just had a bigger soundstage, more bass, and overall musicality. The MultiChannel receiver's stereo mode was just bland. In the end I went for a Denon DRA-835r, a model from the early '90s that last retailed for $800. These are awesome recievers from a time when Denon still cared about stereo - a lot. They pop up on Ebay occasionally, along with the DRA-825, and DRA-1025. I got the 835 off Audiogon for $150 in perfect conditition, and will more than likely put Denon's new DRAs to shame as well, though I have never directly compared. One thing is for sure, my KG4s like my 835 as do my ears.

Hello All, figured I'd share: I have had my Pioneer DV-563A for 6 months now. I picked it up from Circuit City for $109 open box, added the protection plan and walked out for like $134. I have nothing but good things to say about this unit, which has been put through its paces for 2-3 hours nearly every day. With this unit being as reliable as it has, I chuckle when I think that the protection plan doesn't run out until mid 2007! The transport is quiet, and you cannot hear it at all during playback. SACDs sound very good, and Redbook sounds good as well, though I still prefer my inexpesive outboard DAC. While I do not have a progressive scan TV, I can see no issues with DVD playback, it looks great. I took it in once to have the firmware upgraded. (Pioneeer initally had a problem with a couple of DVD-A s not playing which has since been fixed) I dropped off the unit, had lunch across the street and picked it up an hour later, so it wasn't a big deal. While not as inexpensive as these new sub-$80 boxes, I still say the 563A is worth every penny and more. I will be holding onto this unit for quite a while, as I have read that there is a lot to be gained by upgrading capacitors in the analog output stage and power supply ( if i choose to void the warranty ). In short, its perfect for my budget setup. Paul Larson Pioneer DV-563a Entech Number Cruncher 203.2 Dennon DRA-835R Klipsch KG-4s ('90)

Wow, Its been a while since I started this post, neat to see people still reading that far back in the pages! Anyways, I decided on the Denon DRA 835R, which was sold between 1991 and 1995 and last sold for $800.00. I picked it up in mint condition for $150! I am extremely happy with this receiver, and mates VERY nicely with the KG4s with its warm, powerful and extremely clean output. In many ways, its too bad that Denon, along with the rest of the world, has gone and put forth all their attention to MultiChannel. The DRA 835 will easilly put Denon's current stereo and lower end mulichannel units to shame! SACD fed through this unit is incredible, I cant explain it any better than that, just incredible. So thank you all for your time, suggestions and opinions, feel free to continue to add on to this, as I am sure that others will still benifit from reading here.

So does anyone have an email addy for someone in Marketing? Perhaps they would find this thread interesting... I am only half kidding...

scp53, Sadly my personal listening experiences have been quite limited, I haven't ever even had a chance to listen to tubes! Adding on to that, I have not even got to hear my own system in the last 3 weeks, and it looks like it will be another 3 or 4 before I get to go home. More on that in a second. So while I cannot compare to KG4s to a whole lot else in the Klipsch lineup, new or old, I can tell you a little about my impressions of the KG's. If you like rock, chances are you will like the kg4s. They play rock, in my opinion, very well, which I should include with that, most any kind of acoustic guitar. Bass is very good, but positioning is critical. I had to do a lot of moving around living room furniture to find the proper setup to avoid those audio "black holes" where bass is almost totally lost in certain frequecy ranges. Now that set up is right, I cannot imagine needing / wanting a sub at all, the KGs seem to reach down pretty darn low, especially considering the driver size. Techno/R&B/Pop are also good. Classical music is not where these guys shine, but they still hold their own. Horn instruments are absolutely no problem, same goes for any vocals: The Norah Jones SACD sounds just awesome by the way, even though I read that its not a very impressive SACD, I guess I need to buy more SACDs to find out! Stringed insturments such as the voilin are probably the most troublesome for the KGs, but like I said, they hold their own. The KGs will get plenty loud, loud enough that Im sure I could get arrested and or eveicted if my neighbors didn't actually enjoy the music we play. Sorry I cant be more descriptive, I am in the Air Force and am TDY (temporary duty) right now. I left just a couple of days after I got everything put together. Figures, right? Enjoy being 17, you will have money one day, but its a safe bet you wont have time to enjoy by the time you get it. If your still in high school, enjoy, experience everything you can, and dont leave anything undone to regret! edwinr, Thanks for the tip, thats some good info. What kind of household power do you have down there? Do you use 110 volt, 60 Hertz?

Seeing as you all were so helpful with my questions about putting together my first sytem (on a tight budget) a couple of months ago, I thought I'd share what I ended up with. Thanks to all that took the time to answer my questions. You are what makes this board great! Speakers: Klipsch KG4s: 1990, 6 Ohm models in great shape from Ebay. $200 (a steal) Reciever: Denon DRA-835R: apparently rare, 2 channel, 100wpc, sold between 1991 and 1995, latest MSRP being $800. Nearly perfect condition, a full 25 lbs of awesome sound. AudioGon Classified for $150 (another complete steal) Player: Pioneer DV-563a: DVD, DVD-A, SACD, CD, MP3, Anything else you can think of. I got it as a floor demo from Circuit City cheap, knowing I could return it if it didn't perform. So far, very happy, and get this: $100! Connections: For speakers: Monster XP 14GA "lampcord". Free, it was laying around. For components: Monster Interlink 400 MKII 1 Meter : $25 new off Ebay. Thoughts: I know this is not the greatest stuff, but considering the budget I was aiming for, I think I made off really well. The appartment has a large enough living room to allow me to properly position the speakers, couch and TV, and I feel I am getting just about all I can from the setup. The KGs are surely not my father's Fortes, but there is no mistaking that Klipsch sound, and I enjoy them enough to hold onto for at least a few years before worrying about ugrading to Fortes or similar. I am still undecided weather or not I will try to upgrade the crossovers or just let them be. The Denon receiver is exactly what the seller said it was: From a time when Denon was still focusing on 2 Channel. It shows. The DRA-835 just blows the current best, the DRA-685 out of the water, and is no match for most any affordable multi-channel receiver in stereo mode. Strangely, there is NO information about this model on the web, everything I know about it came from the seller and/or a Denon rep. I was hesitant to buy the Pioneer all-in-one player. For the moment, however, I am rather happy with it. Its SACD capabilites (In stereo, I don't know about Multi-Channel) I'm sure are not as good as it gets, but it is definitely very fun to listen to. Standard CD playing is not spectacular, but not bad either. DVDs play just fine, I have no complaints. I recently picked up an Entech "Numbers Cruncher 203.2" DAC, though I haven't played with it yet. I got it more out of curiosity than anything else, But if it improves standard CD playback, I may keep it. I will probably test it out next month when I get back from this trip that I'm on. Being that this is my first system and I am only 19 I am quite pleased. Not bad for about $500 eh? Ok, so I will stop sharing now So what do y'all think? Thanks again to all who were able to give advice, I appriciate it! Paul Larson

I sure wish I had been around the military in the '80s or '90s! I am 19 and have been in the Air Force for nearly two years now. Let me say that if I was to walk into the BX and see Klipsch, especially from the Heritage line I would go nuts! I doubt I'd be the only one either. I have AF buddies over to my appartment all the time and of course I show off my little setup. Its great to watch their eyebrows raise after the first few notes of a song, and these are just a pair of KG-4s! I gurantee I would be doing a lot better than the KG's if AAFES still sold Klipsch at a good price. Paul Larson McChord AFB, WA