thirdeye

What if your in an accident and this highly compressed tank blows up???

Brac , I was simply illustrating in the smearing to some klipsch speakers that are being sealed off in the main cabinet by a thin plastic horn sharing the air volume internally, however as for the external plastic K-horns, well thats another story.. The old Metal K-horns could be better damped maybe, I have not heard it so I can't comment. New plastic K-horns, probably not that beneficial, but this all comes down to the cabinet design of the different klipsch speakers in my opinion.. I mean any that have cheap plastic horn bodys being inside the cabinet absorbing the backwaves etc... directly from the woofers might be worth damping is all I am saying.But then again ANY vibration control period even with horns just sitting on top of a very high power cabinet in a corner like K horns maybe could be benefitting from horn damping.. To directly soften the tone of horns I have in the past taken Felt Triangles and applied them to the actual surface which the compression driver fires into with good tamming results as well, but regular damping would not be a good application there, some soft felt might be if your just trying to do like a diffraction lens type thing and smooth them out from Glaring off the hard surface. Actually interesting thing is disconnect your horn and let the woofer play, if its more amplied and adding color by putting your ear by the horn than obviously it is picking up some of the harmonics and amplifying them more than the deader wood cabinet..

#1 The deadening of the horn back makes perfect sense, not because the horn is necessarily ringing but the resonance from the WOOFER and other vibrating devices in the cabinet also enhance the ringing of the material smearing the image.. I just did a project " The Killer KLF 10's " and they sounded very good right off the bat with the new cabinet and crossover design, however I could tell there was a weaker gap coming off the artificial thin and cheaper plastic horns to the cabinet.. I actually dynamated the whole horn and Magnet to kill of simply more Back waves of the Woofer from resonating thru the plastic surface separating and MAss damping the horn even better from the system.. I did this after listening tests of not treating the horn at all, well guess what, the results were pretty good, lowering the mids a little to be fuller and more integrated to the woofers, and also just smoothing out and causing a more dense and complete image. So although the horns Own frequencies and compression driver may not be as effected by damping the back of the horn the rest of the cabinet air space shared by the other drivers is, and it does consolidate the reflections in the cabinet much better in my opinion, and again it sure can't hurt anything if you have cheap stuff laying around to try it! I did it because I had some sheets of this stuff doing nothing from other projects, used it up and glad I did.. Here is the project link, but I did not get pics of the horns after I did the treatment sorry. Just remeber especially in some of the klipsch designs you do have a very large and THIN plastic surface sealing off a large portion of the cabinet as in my example on the link, it can help deaden things up nicely if applied correctly. http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/t/103108.aspx

Yeah sonicaps are not bad at all.. Very neutral, tiny bit of exaggeration over focusing some things but after time they do settle down pretty nice.

Thanks vman [6]

I posted this in the 2 channel forum before realizing there was an Mod forum! sorry see link http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/t/103108.aspx?PageIndex=1

Yeah the 30's were some monsters, probably would have benefitted greatly from some extra damping and bracing for sure. I found the KLF 10's to be the perfect sized cabinet, cabinet is reasonably short and stout, but big internal volume still.. Anyway its all about the sound, so make them work is what I say now, most klipsch products have the right idea, just gotta do some of your own magic to make them really all they can be, plus piece of mind back then being they were having some definite Q.C. issues, always though Klipsch has been priced right, Heritage series are a bit arguable on new prices of course.

Thanks guys! Yeah you can do some real damage to the hi end market [H] if you have the patience and some skill Funny thing is always these things ending up costing me like 100 bucks more than it should with that last trip to the hardware store!

Last but not least, oh and any pics that look like they have hairline scratches or spots on the grills etc.. are just from the fibers on the cleaning cloth, and or the Flash of the camera.. These are pretty much 9 out of 10 with no marks on them now.

Getting bored yet?

^^^

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You got your choice of using the spikes, or un-screwing them and you have wood footers still on the unit.

$$$

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and so on....

New internals.. bracing etc...

more...

Crossover complete in enclosure hooked to amp on one side, just a 10" jumper hooked up, than a 5 foot neutrik custom bi wire cable out the back of the crossover feeding the speaker.

Pic....

Hi, Plenty of pics below if you don't want to read the preamble [] Just thought I would share a new project I took on basically out of just lust and accidentally falling back into the "Hi power, Hi end" Itch glitch.I have Modified and owned Cornwalls, K-horns, RF3's, Several klipsch Bookshelfs, and RF7's.I have in the past primarily run Cary tube amps, and heard a few others on the Family of klipsch speakers. Going up the chain I have found, Dynamicap, Sonic caps, and of course Mundorfs move up far more but at a very fast increasing price per level as well. Hovland caps are horrifying on Klipsch speakers by the way, big mistake I took on a pair of cornwalls a few years back.I have found that Goertz alpha core inductors are very nice used here, and of course are still pretty pricey, and slightly harder to work with physically, but the Klipsch is worth it if you do outboard crossovers, however these inductors and the caps above will just not fit in any original cabinet design anyway, without taking up critical air volume or being placed way to close to woofers pumping out a ton of vibration. Mills resistors and Eagles are both great.. Probably Mills gets the nod but at 3 times the cost. However now I have found my Favorite caps, sound, and price are the Jantzen Superior caps used in this design.. But very very pricey still and yes the crossovers you see here will in general cost far more than the speakers themselves in the end! A close second in caps are the Clarity cap S.A I have liked in the past, I needed one for this application, and was a good price and the right value for this .... Of course applications will vary so some speakers may respond better to each cap depending on your needs. Anyway bringing me to my point, I use to sell klipsch a few years back during my early years in college, I started right around the Reference series speakers coming out, Caught the Tail end of the KLF Legend series. To say the least KLF cabinets were in fact the WORSE executed and assembled Cabinets in the history of this company, I know this as we would literally get in new boxes with the KLF 10's , 20's , and the 30's which would just fall apart sometimes when you take them out of the box. Notorius for the baffles just coming un-glued. However the good thing was they used a really good design, and had excellent CNC work, just very bad Q.C. issues for final assembly and adheasive issues. The reference series corrected most of the cabinet issues, and were a step up in finish period, and hardware used, Drivers were very different but not superior to the KLF series. I always loved the KLF 10's from the direct A-B testing on our in Store 50 pair digital speaker selector switch, I could just hit a button and go between all models including the new Reference series and always found the KLF 20's a bit middle harsh, 30's very top heavy, and the 10's were just dead on smooth and slightly relaxed, but yes somewhat recessed in the midrange, also always the best bass. To me this worked especially well for the ROCK and roll reputation the KLF series got, because they would work better with the mid fi amps, not like the 20's and 30's needing a much more finess filled amp, and they could go louder without piercing the ears and losing bass quality like its bigger siblings. So I ran across a pair of KLF 10's finally 10 years later, baffles had fallen off the cabinets, they were all ding'ed up, but the drivers were MINT condition, and even with the detached baffles still sounded excellent, probably could have made them rattle, but I did not care. I re-finished the cabinets of course with some wood fillers, and dissasembling them each panel in order to use superior adheasive and bracing to the original. You can see in the pics the raw state of this.. New Solid oak dowels would now attach the Front baffle tieing it to the back internally totally eliminating all the resonance especially from upper midrange, and the strength is of course 10 times what it was. Also leaving the original stock shelf braces proved to use up only a Half of Percent ( .5%) more cabinet volume than the originals.. going from what I measured at 3.25 cubic ft, to 3.22 cubic ft.. I also damped all internal panels with a thin but heavy dynamat to knock out all reflections.. Believe it or not, the Pressed MDF in these are actually very hard grade compared to others I have worked with, seems klipsch had the right materials and design, but really bad adheasive and assembly lines. Then I put on some custom solid wood footers to hold the metal thread inserts and spike hardware on the bottom of cabinet. To add in the end a final touch of rock hard structure the cabinets then got 3 coats of Duratex which is a very strong and solid roll on paint over the cheap original Klipsch black veneer. They look great see pics! Final touches, yes full on outboard crossovers with 13 gauge silver coated copper cables all the way, custom jumpers using neutrik locking connections, far better than having to bi wire and deal with all the extra spade connections etc.. and binding posts mounting. Modified the original Klipsch binding plate to bolt in a sealed neutrik 1000 watt power terminal feeding all drivers with 4 pole design separately. About 3 days work from a very dedicated, educated, and able soul :-) It was a lot of fun, the second best to these so far has been the RF3's which were about the same treatment for a friend of mine years ago, The K-horns might remain the absolute ultimate, but at a cost and not that much better.. Forte's, cornwalls, Chorus very good, but seem to not put out the full fledged bass of these suckers with excellent balance, and just the slimmer more modern cabinets really fit the bill better, have less issues in room placement, and are less amplifier picky than the heritage series. My RF7's were just Nose bleed and ear bleed! So these KLF 10's and the modded RF3's I believe easily from my experiments can compete on a level of 8,000 to 15,000 without a sweat at very low cost level! Thanks for checking this out

Tony, its not 2 4 ohm... its 2 8 ohm wired back down to 4 ohm

So tell me, How are the Dual Driver Klipsch models like any of the reference series towers.. Or older KG, KLF series etc… Actually 8 ohm impedance? I mean the Heritage series are 8 ohm due to single drivers, all the other models I owned are actually Dual woofers and are wired in Parallel so they get to a 4 ohm resistance. However klipsch specs say on all these models 8 ohm nominal impedance, and the newer versions I noted actually state " 8 ohm compatible" meaning what? They realize they are not really 8 ohm measured? I have actually taken an ohm meter to these speakers personally and come up with below 4 ohm somewhere around 3.8 ohm and lower on average throughout virtually the whole product line, I know this is not the most accurate way to get a impedance curve, but you would have to figure it needs to be at the least a 7 ohm reading to say its an 8 ohm speaker or am I missing something here? My concern is that I would like to use an older pair with some tubes, but S.E.T. amps might not like this as much and if they are really 8 ohm fine.. Seems somebody needs to reveal Oz behind the curtain here. I am going to use a pair of KLF 10's for a project as a reference. Most believe Efficiency is so high that speakers with this should work well with tubes or anything and lower power no problem, but impedance is probably even more critical in getting excellent results. Thanks

plants serve 4 puroses for a listening room.. #1- They have some scientific value in that they up the humidity if real plants are used, they make the air denser which normally sounds better because thin Cold air sound just that, dry and sometimes brittle.. #2 with direct placement next the firing drivers on a speaker they work nearly as well as a real diffusor used in studios, Breaking up the frequencies thru all the leaves branchs etc Also the pot with dirt depending on how much and how big will infact absorb and deaden some bass response, it does help smooth things out, much like a Thick Carpet in the room will, they have some slight bass trapping characteristics.. #3- yes they add oxygen to the air helping you and your ears breath fresher which I guess could make a psychoacoustic effect making you feel the music is more enjoyable without the Stale air in most rooms. #4- they help make the environment look good, simply hide the fact you might have big ugly speakers sitting next to them, which of course ups your WAF factor to any room or environment.. Take it for what its worth, but bigger plants with more proper placement cannot hurt anything but have a pretty good chance to add something. Thats all there is too it.. Oh and by the way in the very Hi end shows many times have several plants in their setup, and many always seem to get the best sounding rooms at the show by popular vote.. Mainly it works cause in the hotels they hold these events you cant really go crazy destroying the walls with acoustic material to tune things in, so this is the next best, and maybe even better option.

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