Kriton

Actually I *intended* to compare the Farscape TV show to Serenity the movie, I think that the production values of Farscape every week show were as good as the Serenity movie. Frankly, I have never been able to get into any of the iterations of Stargate, I thought the original movie lame (especially when he pulls out the candy bar - paid label endorsement - to give to the desert dwellers... but the guy who played the he-she in "Crying Game" was a hoot - and I just expected him to whip it out, couldn't get the picture out of my head ) - and the subsequent Stargate episodes just haven't grabbed me either - makes me even more sorry to see Farscape and Firefly go... Tried to watch Claudia Black and Ben Browder episode of Stargate, just didn't work for me...turned the channel. I know there are a lot of fans of Stargate, I just don't get it...my poor opinion of course. K

OK, wait - backup...NOS! You take payment plans for VRD's?? K

Nice - as a result of this thread I have ordered quite a few of the suggestions, thanks! Sounds like I have to buy this Floyd - Pulse recording, if they ever release it, sounds great... I just listened to The Who -Live at Royal Albert Hall, and I was a bit disappointed. The voices just get real ragged toward the end and the recoding is the typical over-saturated loud stage show. Nice memories though. I have said this before in other threads, so you will ahve to forgive me, but one of my all time favorite live albums (if you are into opera) is Leonard Warren - Live in Russia, I don;t know if you can even find this in print any more, but it is an excellent recording that has stood the test of time well. Thanks for the suggestions everyone. K

Uh, I liked it...I wasn't expecting much, so I was pleasantly surprised. Hit me like an extended TV pilot or something. Now if you want to talk about a show I miss that is the standard by which all of these movies of this genre should/are compared, I miss FARSCAPE the most. I have watched all of the season DVDs and the Peacekeeper Wars, and still believe that was a fantastic show nobody watched...IMHO. Farscape makes Serenity seem rather amateurish in comparison, I thought; enjoyable none-the-less. K

Because of the recent thread on "What are we missing" - and the indication that Klipsch speakers are best for live music and the counter-argument that "live" performance doesn't necessarily equal a "good" cd, or a better recording from the studio original. What I would like is some forum feedback on good live recordings - now I dont mean good live performances, spectacles or the like - you know fantastic light shows that end up being crappy albums - but good recordings that are equal to or better than the original studio recordings... I will start - Sinatra - Live at the Sands w/Count Basie: I think this is probably one of the best Sinatra albums I have ever heard, though recorded late fifties, early sixties, it is lush and dynamic with a lot of variations - has great sound in my opinion, Sinatra at his best, and the interaction with the audience is classic, apart from the mildly racist commentary and the soliloquy about Dean Martin being the captain of the US drinking team. Peter Gabriel - Secret World Live: Fantastic live recording of Gabriel classics, excellent sound quality of the recording IMO, there is crowd noise ocassionally, but the mix seems to be spot on, has a lot of depth caused by the huge venues it was made in - but doesn't reverb you out of the room, or make the singers sound like they are in a tunnel. I highly recommend it. U2 - Under a Blood Red Sky - Not the greatest sound production values, but the album gets across the angsty simplicity of the band in the early 80's, and why they were (are?) the most popular band in the world. I like this album alot, but it is pretty noisy, and is meant to be that way, I think. Anyone else want to throw some in here? K

I am in...let me know when and where...we have a bunch of folks around here, and I will volunteer to bring speakers and goodies. K

Hey, welcome. The Klipsch main site says that the H2 was built from 1985...so I suspect that yours are H1's - now the tricky part...depending on when they were actually made, they might be franken-speakers meaning they have a unique speaker to crossover arrangement (using some parts form the H2 while in the H1 configuration). As was said before, the H1 is most easily identifiable from teh fact that the drivers are mounted from the inside, so the tweeter, squaker and woofer have are recessed (if looking at the speaker cabinet from the front) and the back panel where the label is is screwed into the case (you will see the screws around the perimeter of the case) - The H2's on the otherhand have all of the drivers mounted flush to the from motorboard and you will see the screws for each component aroudn the edge of the tweeter, squaker, and woofer AND the back panel where the label is is glued on, so there are no screws... There are always exceptions to every rule, but those are the generalities...I suspect from what the website said that you have H1's - the interior configuration (crossovers, dampening material, etc.) are very different between the models too... That is my understanding and i hope that answered your question? K

BOB, I am sorry man, I have caps and crossovers for two pairs of these things that I want to refresh, so I am bouncing back and forth, yes on the H2's the crossover is on the cap...so putting that big capacitor on there is probably not going to work? The H1's look very simple, should be easy to swap out the three caps? I am just trying to find which caps to use and at what values...if I try to use say Thetas and they don;t hae the exact value that I need, what then? Aslo, do I need to match the voltages of the old caps, or the voltages of all the new caps, or does voltage matter at all? Thnaks for listening to the newb, I appreciate it... K

DrWho, I get your point...it may have been the music, but I don't think so...I think the thing that struck me was the *sound*. I was having parts of my body giggle to bass notes that had never happened. I heard hues and tones and dissonances, and badly played riffs and it was - well - euphoric. I listened to everything on that college stereo, the guy had to give me key because all I wanted to do was borrow that sound...To this day, I haven't listened to Phil Collins in years, but I can still tell you the name of that first song...I think it was the right music at the right time, but it was difference in the sound coming out of that system that floored me... Trying different music (or the same composer and different players) has definitely raised my appreciation for the music, but for instance, there is something about a good recording of Barber's Adagio for Strings played on a tight pair of Klipsch Cornwall's (MY Cornwalls) that will bring you to tears, the song is meant to be screechy up top - but my system handles it, wraps it, and makes it the "cry of the innocents"...I have taken this recording with me to various listening parties, friends houses, and heard it done on various and sundry good and not so good systems...and the piece is always good, becasue it is an exceptional recording...but for some reason on my speakers it is a religious experience, every time. Now, what it comes down to - if *I* think that my speakers sound this good - but a majority of other folks think that in comparison that my speakers/setup/what-have-you, is crap - then what choir of angels must they be listening to, and where can I sign up? That is what I wanted to know... Thanks for the replies, really...you have all at once supported what I am hearing, and given me the impetus to do some more comparing, if only to appreciate what I have more (and improve the WAF factor through creative propaganda -"Listen to how DULL these things sound, compared to those monstrous horns WE have...") - !! K

Hey Bob, the three caps on my crossover are: Two square caps which are 2.0uf -+ 5% / 250 VAC connected to the T2A AF, and a round can cap in the woofer with a value of 100V 33uf...does this sound right to you? I just need to find caps of the those values, correct? THis is an E-2 H1 crossover...so the H2 crossovers have a 68uf caps in the woofer circuit? What is that about? Thanks, K

Interesting! I thought all H1's were screw in backs, and H2's were glued too. I learn something new every day. Thanks for the values Bob, I appreciate the information. OK, so I souldn't touch the coils, how bout the formers? K Does anyone have any pictures of modded H2 or H1 (especially) refreshed crossovers?

Too late...After hearing Kaiser's sweet TT setup, I ahve already been shopping around for my office system...and it will have tubes and maybe a pair of those Nautilus speakers - ok, just kidding, TT, Tubes and KHorns are my next thing...wife will have to keep watching the 36" low def. TV... Already got the tube bug, dammit. But thanks for the warnings... K

OK, what is the general concensus on caps? Auricap, Sonicap, what? I just need to find capacitors that have the same values? I really wanted to try and do the old H1 crossovers (labeled E-2) myself, they look pretty simple, actually very simple - the only caps on them are the square upright stadning things, I think. I have years ago done some circuit board work, putting together hexidecimal projects in college... Should I replace the other components (I think autoformers or coils) too? Do some AF's work better with some caps, and vice versa? I think I remember someone saying (maybe you Bob) that the AF's didn't go bad, not to worry about them? Thanks, K

That is what the poster said over there, claiming to have been a Klispch salesman at an audio store...I had the same reaction as you did though, don't what he considers overpriced, but if it is Bose he was referring to then "frame fo referece" is indeed the question... DrWho, you make a good point - Do you know what I am learning my obession is? It is the "drug induced euphoria" - you know what I mean... the high you felt the first time you listened to something *really* good, or at least that much better than anything you heard before. For example, growing up I had an old Zenith table top radio, downfiring speaker, mono, on a strange rather horn shaped stand to radiate the sound outward... I thought it sounded wonderful, used it through high school even...then went I went to college, I sat in my new friends dorm room, listening to his Nakamichi stereo playing some pap popular music I had never heard before, In the Air Tonight by some wacky brit named Phil Collins...and I was - shocked. Is was as if someone had opened a vein right there and pumped me full of the most astounding drug you have ever imagined. However you feel about Phil Collins or Nak, it doesn't - didn't matter - it was the sort of epiphany reserved for your first fast car or your first fully functional girlfriend - and we, collectively, spend a lot of time and money trying to recreate that singular experience again. That is what psychoacoustics mean to me Perhaps that is what I am trying to find, but at least now I think - with your help - I know what I am looking for...it might be a waste of time or stupid discussion, as some have pointed out on this thread, but I think the journey is the goal, yes? Thanks, K

Max and Tom, thanks - I appreciate the responses. I have never heard a $70k pair of speakers, and would never pay that much for a speaker. I agree with some previous posters that Klipsch heritage sound "live", that is more like the band is right in front of you, but I also agree that that is not necessarily a good thing. I have been to plenty of exciting stage shows that were marvelous to experience, but the actual music was distorted and almost incomprehensible. I have heard the harshness too, I guess I just have a hard time believing that these other guys could hear this speaker once and on the basis of perhaps one bad hearing, label it all as crap. I try to be as objective as I can, with orchestras, bands and components. Perhaps that is where my real misunderstanding lies. The last time I heard a KHorn was a long time ago, and it seems that there is a lot of discussion about the KHorn being the pinnacle, but I don;t own any of those (yet), so my only comparison are the CW's and Heresys, and the completely different RF's right now; really makes me wonder how much better the KHorns must be... I have also think that I have learned from you guys that set-up is even more important with a horn loaded speaker due to the physics of the thing than a conventional loudspeaker, making many our horns sound harsh or lacking when it wasn't really the speakers fault, but how the thing was set up - is that generally the truth? Thanks again, I am getting it now. K

Thanks for the picts Bob, saves me from having to pop this thing. Those caps look mighty small...Do you think it would be a noticeable change at this point to upgrade the caps on the 2006 H2? Thanks again, K

Thanks for the reply, So all of these speakers with the wrinkles are damaged enough to require replacement? I see a lot of folks state that this damage doesn't "effect the sound", so that is a crock, yes? K

Marvel, The 85's have the round cup, the new H2's have a square cup...larger crossover perhaps? Interesting...I need to pop it to find out, the curiosity is killing me. I also have a pair of H1's that I will use to AB with once I ahve them refinished...they sounded fine when I go them, so I am curious as to how each sound when sitting next to one another .. K

OLDBUCKSTER: It must be wonderful to live in a universe where you are the sole arbiter of what is and isn't worthwhile discussion. By the way my ignorant little friend, the word you are trying to use is "DRIVEL", which I tried to point out more tactfully in my last post, and you have added nothing to this, MY, thread but your dismissive and condescending posts. A habit for you as I recall. If your speakers are terrible, doesn't the MUSIC suffer as a result, or do you just imagine what it SHOULD sound like? My grip is quite fine and I have been in possession of it for some years, how is yours? I suggest you locate it, and climb right off my cloud. Back to the discussion - what is the determining factor with what is quality components for use with Klipsch - Who determines what is "garbage in"? Not trying to be argumentative, but is it a price threashhold, a certain electronic architecture, or what? That seems terribly subjective too - the folks I have asked over at the AVSForum who dislike Klipsch speakers have told me some pretty impressive components that they have used to listen to older Klipsch heritage speakers (Cary's, Levinson, and some stuff I have never heard of before, sounded impressive - with the understanding that most of those guys are out of this country I think) - and the attitude was till the same, "bright till my eyes bleed" or the like...so can room treatment really effect the legendary "brightness" that much? No one has commented on the statment that was made about the alleged trade off that PWK made between tone and efficiency...do you think that is true? K

Dee, thanks for the response. Why did I think that an H2 was an H2? I guess I just figured that the H2 crossover stayed the same, pretty naive of me...I really don't want to bust these things open, but I guess I need to just to figure out the differences... The 85's 2's just sound like crap, very interesting comparison let me tell you. I would like to try to refresh the crossovers myself but I don't know if I am up to that quite yet... K

OK, pops - I have had to stop a couple of times from responding to your post in order to control a spontaneous outbreak of invectives, so here goes... First, I haven't "dribbled" since I was an infant, and one time I was drunk in college, but I don't count that - your present experience may differ. Second, did you actually read my initial question? Or even better the thread that I pointed to, or did you just try to glean the general gist of the conversation from the posts here, and fire off your useless post dismissing what you regard as "dribble"? Here is the deal, since I didn't appear to be clear the first couple of times: My question dealt with the fact that there are many other folks , not on this forum, that believe that Klipsch speakers suck. Some (not all) of those people have a hell of a lot more experience in listening and choosing speakers and components than I - and as here, I respect some of their opinions. I asked why it is the general consensus outside of this forum, that Klipsch speakers are terrible, and whether as a collective - we are missing something in our assessment. I love my speakers, for the solidity of them and for the legacy that is Paul Klipsch, the history. However, I am open to other opinions and points of view on new components and speakers. When pretty much 90% of another forum apparently thinks that Klipsch suck, I have to stand back and ask exactly why - and what it is that they are hearing that I am not. What I get however, is "relax - listen to the music not the components" - which is nonsense. I believe that comment above came from someone with Mac and B&O components - unless it was the first stereo he ever owned and he "never saw no reason to change 'er" - he chose those components on the basis of comparison, and assumably the opinions of others. I rely on opinions of folks on this forum (most) when evaluating a new speaker, system, what have you. I haven't heard Crites tweeters, but I am ordering a pair - why? Because of the positive feedback YOU have given them, and because Bob is an upstanding guy. If a thread was/is started that says that the new reference line just isn't up to snuff, you bet I will be reading that and taking it into account in my next purchase decision. A thread on the other forum says, in comparison, Klipsch is terrible, you bet I am wondering (given that I like it a lot) what the OTHER stuff must sound like? If you don't, then we are just not on the same planet. My thread was harmless and it has devolved into the millionaire next door and dismissal from you who believe you have all the answers; thank you to those who maintained the topic and attempted to answer the question. To those who preferred to tell me to relax, get bent. Rant quietly concluded. K

Ok, I have had the unique opportunity to A/B a couple of pair of Heresy 2's, one pair is stock (albeit beat-up) 1985s, and the other is a pair of 2006 brand new H2's. Given that the speakers have a 20 years difference, I didn't expect them to sound *so* different. SO my question is this...the 85's sounded dull and there was a lot more noise in the sound; is this a direct result of the old crossovers? Can older caps actually introduce noise into the sound? The 85's were muddy and just not clear...the 06's were clear as a bell...is the crossover the difference? I will tell you that the tweeter diaphragms on the 85's have been replaced with new BEC diaphragms within the last month due to my receiving the speakers with blown tweeters. Does anyone have a diagram of a refreshed H2 crossover, with cap values and any suggested mods? I also have some franken speaker H1.5's with k-77M tweeters but with an E-2 network on a wooden board, does any one have any upgrade plans for these? Thanks in advance... K

I have read all of the responses - and what it comes down to for me...I had the opportunity to spend some good quality time tonight breaking in a pair of brand new H2's, the last of the breed straight from Hope last weekend... While I usually listen to classical music or jazz on my Heresys, I just happen to like some teeth rattling once in a while and I needed to get these woofer cones moving, so I put in the new Nickelback cd - and I cranked it - loud...Played "Next Contestant"a dozen or more times...thunderous bass licks on this cd... Damn, man...it was almost painful...these are the flatest truest sounding small-ish speakers I have ever heard, and I really believe they could give my beloved Cornwalls a run for the money - what a difference 20 years between the two makes...and I haven't even started tweaking yet! Not as sweet as the B&W's I heard on my trip to AK this last weekend, but for $545/pair new in the box, they are something to hear...it would take me a lot to give these things up, I am telling you...and with some more shake down time, they can only get better...there may be better speakers, but I haven't heard it...so maybe I am just a dolt, and I enjoy my ignorance... K

Yes, but...frankly - I have auditioned only a very limited number of speakers, probably maybe 5 brands, including Klipsch in less than ideal circumstances - I don't have the time or resources or patience to purchase, move to my listening room, audition and return large speakers when I find them "splashy" or "muddy" or "lean" (whatever the hell any of that means). I use the feedback of other folks on forums just like this one to gauge general opinion about a product, any product. I really enjoyed a listening party that the audiocircle guys had over here, and I heard Art's spectacular Dunlavys, and some very nice GRResearch speakers and Gallos, but that happens so rarely that comparisons are difficult. I like what I have, you bet. I keep buying the stuff it seems, so for me to tell you that somehow it wasn't quite up to snuff would be to flush years and thousand of dollars down the drain, agreed? But as a purist here, I am just trying to evaluate what I am hearing and what others (more experienced perhaps and better able to convey what they are hearing) to me, and I find this thread on AVSfourm. You know what, like a LOT of folks, I have heard BOSE sound pretty convincing too, in their little Best Buy setup with the speakers over your shoulders and the center in your face, haven't you? SO, I question my own tastes and what I am hearing sometimes, so do a lot of folks here (hence the interminable threads on tweaks and upgrades and crossovers - of which I am a major reader, ascriber and disciple). These are just my thoughts out loud... K