meagain

100% correct Sir!

Well. I think I'm done. The difference in sound (to ears) of the 2 speakers is VASTLY more in your face than the difference we're hearing between old & new x-overs. I cannot test the crossovers by comparing left & right. Period. When I first tested, I was thrilled thinking the new caps made a BIG difference - then sadly realized that speaker just plains sounds better than the right anyway so my initial impression went out the window. Husband didn't see much difference with the new. He states there is no way he will remember the old vs. the new when we have to spend time yanking them out, installing new, putting them back. He has to do an a/b and unless the difference is massive - it's moot. I tend to agree with him on the memory thing. I don't think I'll be able to do it either. We'll try it tomorrow though. Both speaks will get old then new and we'll listen. I guess our focus shifted to the inherent difference in the 2 speakers. We had a long talk just now about x-overs, rebuilding, new pricey ones, etc. and talked about this Behringer DEQ2496 gadget. Buying new x-overs would be a leap of faith right now, but we're in agreement with you all that minimally the caps are important and will at least switch those out (he wants to try to DIY this) and any 'important' parts. I sent him some info on the new options out there. We both realize the EQ won't take the place of new x-overs so we get that. I think we'll end up taking baby steps into crossover land right now. Perhaps the EQ will tell us what we are hearing and allow me to translate it better and for all I know, help me select a certain type of x-over for when we're ready? 78 - We're going to swap speaker location tomorrow. Eww. (my gut says the problem won't follow the speaker).

Jeff - I edited my post above. I WAS listening in mono/mono. [] 78 - I did that test. It's not the amp. Still the same. Didn't move. Either the speaker or the room.

Yes, I understand that it uses the corners/walls for the bass, but no - it would never occurr to me nor have I read anything that ever mentioned the floor under the khorn being critical to anything. Are you saying it does? And doesn't it have it's own bottom? I certainly didn't flip it upside down to look.

EDIT! LOL The music was put into the computer and played through the computer to each speaker in mono. This is what I've just been told. I have a 1984? Yamaha amp and a NAC Series 20. I think the Yamaha will make this all easier on me has the HK doesn't do mono. YesTo add to the "I'm stupid pile", I have this odd habit of forgetting I have probably one of the cheapest DVD/CD players known to man. Prolly cost $80 bucks a few years ago? Toshiba. I've been told this could make a big difference (even via email), but I keep blocking it out of my mind. Going to find my Yamaha amp.

Yea - I'm sort of dead in the water right now (frustrated). I can't a/b the 2 speakers cuz they are different so there's no point. The post above bothers me in that they were supposed to be hooked up in mono, and I'm almost afraid to go look to make sure they are. If not, oh - I'll be mad! [8o|] I'd be really happy if I could magically/instantly swap x-overs in one speaker but I can't. Anyway, I hear a difference. How much? IDK at this point. Husband less so. I'm going to do what Mark? (& others) suggested and just listen to one song to death with old, replace both, and listen to death. I don't have faith in my ear memory. The question is, how much money is this difference worth? IDK Jeff - are you still listening to yours or did you send them off to Bob. That said, I scored a nice deal on a Behringer DEQ2496 based on posts from members here and I'm looking at it right now. Before I get yelled at - I promise not to touch it till I sort this all out. [] EDIT: What's a 'P-Trap'?

Thanks Dean. Don't want to hijack your thread, but had a quickie question..... Since the side walls were secured to the khorns, why did you feel the need to create 'floors' for them? Further stabilization? Mine are on thick plush carpet and wondering if that affects anything.

Bling-horns

I of course can't help you other than perhaps to bump you up, but my husband sent me a link to this today. It sounds like it would really come in handy. Are you happy with it thus far? (BTW I bought that Behringer DEQ today. You started me on that train & after reading the threads on it - figured it would be a good thing. I appreciate the heads up on it!!!).

Those are pretty. Maybe "I" should have bought them. Dean - is it true that you may have built some sort of built-in false corner for your Khorns? Maybe like Tiger did? If so - got any pics laying around?

From the description, it almost seems like the price point would be a higher. And I have to read it again - but they enclosed the rear/sides of the top bin not Only due to aesthetics? What's up with that?

Wow. That sounds so nice. What I'm interested in is the part about closing up the back to allow toe-in? They don't need to be snug in corners?

Great - I figured that was it. I myself am in comcast hell (internet) the level of which would be worthy of starting a blog. It started last Friday when the tech who spent 2.5 hours here - ran away. Yep. Made everything worse (tv included which he wasn't supposed to touch), then went outside to do something and I sat here like a moron waiting for him to come back inside. He left. Never to return. After I immediately secured a visit for saturday - he filed a report saying everything was fine now, forged my signature on the workorder indicating I was satisfied, cancelled my Saturday visit, and tossed a few more lies into the mix for bonus points. It all went downhill from there. Yes. Downhill. Truely the worst nightmare of this type of ever experienced or heard about. It took me 3 minutes to open this page to reply.

I wish it didn't need work (that I don't know how to do). I'd buy it. I want to see what all this tube magic is all about.

attaching

But Duke, if ALL things are equal, why is it a poor idea? Despite alledgedly a non-pristine test, I'm taking a reading with the mic on a stand planted said amount of feet pointing at left. Change x-over. Take another reading with the ONLY thing changed being the x-over. It's a test of CHANGES between the two. That's all I'm trying to see. The differences and nothing more. If faults exist in first test, they also exist in 2nd test. But the changes should be valid.

Rictate - Switching wire/amp ports is what I'll be doing soon today. We also plan on physically switching the 2 speakers to see if it's a placement issue. Being so heavy, and having a diagnostic procedure just b4 xmas (I'm fine) and told to not move over 20 pounds for 2 weeks, plus coming off of some freek stomach virus - means I'm dependent on hubby (sorry Fini) here. Otherwise, things would move much faster. So today I can only do so much. I also plan to address the right speak's physical area. 3dzapper - "I think Meaghan was saying that the recapped networks had the anticipated results but that one of her horns sounds better than the other with both old and new caps." Yep! "Meaghan, As you are switching corners with your Khorns, look at the mid range drivers. Are there push pin type connectors or are the wires soldered on?" Planning to switch them ASAP. Midrange drivers... is that the bell on the end of the horn where the wires touch connect? They appear soldered and attached seriously. All wires look good except that on the right, the squawk wire from the horn's 'hotel bell' drapes over the end of the horn on its way to the x-over. It's touching the horn on the skinny end.. Told hubby to fix it but he didn't. I can't imagine that's a good thing! I guess I can't compare left to right when they are both different to start with (see numbers on first post). I guess this is why we analyzed them separately as a baseline. We tested again before tweaking. Analyzed the left by placing mic facing left, then changed x-overs & took another reading. Same with the right. I'm going to get those numbers emailed to me. Should I post the numbers showing the difference between the x-overs? It should be a most accurate comparison.

Dean - We first put the new x-over in the left & left the old in the right. Comparing the sound from the left to right, the left sounded better. No brainer. Got all excited till we switched the x-overs to have the new one in the right. Right still sounds bad. Same as when it had the old x-over? hard to tell. But the left still sounded better despite now having the old x-over in. The test sort of flew out the window when we realized old or new - the 2 speaks just sound different from each other. 1. Yes - all connections fine. 2. Did that when I got them (newspaper) and everything works. Will try again to try to glean what's amiss? 3. We feel the new x-over made it sound better. As far as hiss. This recording I listed above has this problem. It's the recording. When I posted "less" hiss/sibilance, that was from the left speaker which 'apparently' has less of this issue somehow for us. So it seems while we were hearing a lessening (it's still there) of this issue in the left, it seems to be due to that one speaker or it's placement.

Switched the new crossover to the right. Still sounds worse. Ooops. Something's just plain off with the right, no matter what. Going to flip flop them. Hopefully it's the room & not the speaker. Still, when we put the old crossover in the left, it seemed worse. We retested everything (more properly done) and I'll look at the numbers tomorrow to see the difference the new x-overs afford. I know there are those who say to listen to the old, then put the new x-overs in both, but I'm having a problem getting how we'll remember or be able to compare. We'll do it though.

I'm on the verge of coming to that conclusion. But if I switch the x-overs and the left still sounds better - all bets are off.

The hiss on this recording is still there. Just lessened to me. Course it might be just the right speaker. Hubby listened to the same stuff I did and he's not getting it. He's also complaining that we aren't doing a fast enough a/b test. It's mere seconds. Now he's going to rip some CD's into his laptop and set something up to do a 'better' a/b. I thought it sounded alot! better and can't fathom how he doesn't hear it. He kept asking me to describe it and I refused so I didn't taint his judgement. He finally said it was richer sounding. We're going to move the xover to the other speaker.

[] OK, mind you - this is just preliminary. Put new x-over in Left and I'm doing an A/B deal as equally as possible. But right now, it's..... SIGNIFICANT! I'm listening to David Sylvian 'Secrets of the Beehive' Track: Orpheus. Beautiful album. Darkly beautiful. Deep tones, etc. New x-over speaker: Warm, richer, solid-er, 'come sit by the fire & have hot cocoa cuz it's all good' type of feel, bigger in a good way, comfy, deep. During a dead quiet 'hear a pin drop part' WAY less hiss. Old x-over speaker: Tinny, shallower, detached in an atmosphere not mine, something's 'separate' about it, noisier, more sibilance, echo-y/hall-like/arena-ish, harsher, colder, uncomfy and foreign. Switch to new x-over: tears welling up. Old: Trouble in River City. I have to run downstairs & get hubby. He's exercising. (sigh) I have to try something more lively, bright, with high end & lots of stuff. I'm thinking a good perky XTC - thinking 'Nonsuch'. They tend to be well recorded. Disclaimer! I hesitate for now cuz my 2 speaks originally have different numbers (see first post) and not a good test - but rest assured I'll be switching over! Oh boy.

Ben - I know & appreciate the criticism. Just thought it would be fun to see a before/after albeit flawed. We're hopeing to do a proper test with proper gear very soon. Maron - Yes, as soon as I cracked the bass door, hubby yelled "don't touch the paper!". (I knew that [] ) Here's my old crossover for giggles.

I did it. Very very cool. Woofer looks brand new. Guess it should for being sealed up like that in it's on sarcophagus(sp). The rim of the woofer said k33? And the main part said k33 e. Not sure what that means. These sure were kept nice all these years. Going to put in the new x-overs now & take a pick of the old for kicks and post it.

Darn. All those screws undone. I guess I'll just assume everything's fine in there. All the wires are done perfectly. My only gripe is the right speaker wire connections. I don't approve at all how he hooked them up. Also he didn't tighten them all down like I would have. IDK if what I see is enough to make the right one messed up. He's insisting on mono'ing one speaker with one crossover and testing it again for a before/after comp. Can't hurt I guess. Might be interesting. Will test the left one first. Edit: Mark - you think I should open the door then? It'll be ok?