Zen Traveler
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Posts posted by Zen Traveler
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25 minutes ago, RealMarkDeneen said:
FDA regulates the testing and sale of drugs and devices, approving them to be marketed for specific conditions or “indications” specified on the label, but the agency does not control how doctors use a drug once it is on the market.
The Government was trying to get a cohesive effort to stop the spread of Covid-19. I've mentioned as what Tom reports is still true.
29 minutes ago, Bubo said:Actually Ivermectin and hydroxichlorquine (aka quinine) have passed all tests, have FDA approval and every other country in the world for lots of different uses.
But has been shown to be ineffective when dealing with Covid.
29 minutes ago, Bubo said:It was injected, in many cases via coercion, into hundreds of millions or billions of people. Forced medical experiments are a violation of the Nuremberg protocols.
Having studied History and have been warned/had threads & posts deleted and kicked off the Forum trying to have discussions Real-time during Covid I can posititively say you are going to get us into trouble with your comments.
18 minutes ago, RealMarkDeneen said:For those still stuck in mid-2020 that entire worldview promoted by the government and the mass media has been proven to be FALSE. There is plenty of emerging data and evidence now that is readily available to those who are stuck in June 2020.
You don't know how bad I want to discuss/debate you on this but we no longer have a format.
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1 hour ago, RealMarkDeneen said:
What you call "misinformation" was actually "life-saving information." And, by censoring it and, even worse, taking administrative action to prevent its application, tens of thousands of Americans died needlessly on hospital respirators.
No. What I called misinformation was conspiracy theories and faulty medical advice outside of what Government Pandemic experts were saying. Did some things get wrongly censored? Sure, but alot more crap was scrubbed which I did see coming across my Facebook screen and mirrored on the Klipsch Forum. THAT is why it became a forbidden subject here.
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28 minutes ago, Bubo said:
Govt has totally failed at education, unless the goals were something other than literacy, math and science etc.
I gotta admit this would be a good topic to cover in another thread and agree it could be better.
30 minutes ago, Bubo said:I've given it a great deal of thought, govt needs to be completely removed from every aspect of education, including measurement and funding.
I disagree and feel this is where it would get overtly political and I want to keep the thread going.
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I have been fortunate enough to hike this region of the Swiss Alps on several occasions. I hiked from Matten to Schynige Platte in winter with a guide on his off time when the railway was closed (Great story! 😎) The views and 12 hour hike was a major moment in my life and seeing it on a Summer's day in 4k is quite the Treat!
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One of the things that really interests me is Biblical Scholarship on YouTube. This dropped yesterday and REALLY sheds light where the Scrolls and Jesus meet. There are alot of debates between YouTubers in this catagory, but the Scholarship of Dr Tabor on this material is informative although the actual channel may no be for everyone. {Content is not religious, but historical in nature.}
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On 9/21/2023 at 10:00 AM, RealMarkDeneen said:
And are cult leaders any different than government officials?
Yes. Unless one gets elected.
On 9/21/2023 at 10:00 AM, RealMarkDeneen said:Why should the population be limited to only listening to one kind of cult leader?
That ain't happenin' in the good ol' USA! We can also listen to the more sensible people if we choose.
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On 9/20/2023 at 7:23 PM, Jeff Matthews said:
It is kind of interesting because YT and other social media can be useful for cult leaders to convince people to drink Kool Aid.
This! Heck, I started this thread because I get caught up into intriguing wormholes that makes me realize how coercive all this is! For me I kinda think in a good way but I have also see what you referenced and wonder how I could be getting influenced negatively.
On 9/20/2023 at 7:23 PM, Jeff Matthews said:Should large companies be required to host such people?
Nope.
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On 9/19/2023 at 8:22 PM, Jeff Matthews said:
Interesting conversation. The 2 points that jump out at me regarding censorship involved (1) trying to shut down claims made that injecting or drinking some kind of bleach (or pool cleanser, or something - I forget) protected people from Coronavirus, and (2) trying to hush critics of the vaccine because the vaccine program was too important to allow anyone to create skepticism and fear.
Yep. Good point and to defeat a virus shouldn't rely on competing narratives from powerful sources. THAT is why we have Government.
On 9/19/2023 at 8:22 PM, Jeff Matthews said:This thread might not last long, but IMO, our comments aren't really all that controversial. These points are long outdated, and I don't think people really care that much anymore.
Nowadays, I agree about not caring to rehash political issues and I don't wish to with Covid unless ER numbers go way up.
On 9/20/2023 at 7:10 PM, babadono said:no offense to anyone here but......what exactly is MISINFORMATION? There is correct information, there is incorrect information.
Misinformation usually is regarded as propaganda. Bullshit conclusions based on misalignment/misrepresentation of facts.
On 9/20/2023 at 7:10 PM, babadono said:I mean who are the brain police? Are you thinking wrongly? Soon you will be charged with THOUGHT CRIME. What utter NONSENSE..use your intelligence while it is still allowed....
Not sure where this was going. 🤔 Fwiw, there are a few very nice moderators who volunteer their time to monitor our online thoughts, while questioning folks intelligence should be one of those things pondered and not discussed (imo).
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On 9/15/2023 at 1:07 PM, RealMarkDeneen said:
There's no standard methodology for determining truths from untruths outside of age-old courtroom evidence procedures, which have limited usefulness in politics. So-called "fact-checking" institutions are nothing more than political action committees pursuing conformance to preferred Establishment political narratives of the day.
Don't disregard the impact of the courts! See below:
On 9/15/2023 at 8:32 AM, Zen Traveler said:I don't know but I'm glad to see liable charges being brought (and won) against media sources spreading provable lies, as well as, those who served in government being letigated as well.
On 9/15/2023 at 1:07 PM, RealMarkDeneen said:...Governments have no interest in determining truths from untruths.
I don't agree.
On 9/15/2023 at 1:07 PM, RealMarkDeneen said:Their only interest is propagating their version of truths in order to maintain a national narrative.
I absolutely agree with this when it comes to making important timely decisions in regard to National Interests. I address 9/11 and Covid below.
On 9/17/2023 at 6:31 PM, RealMarkDeneen said:I'm a lot more worried about humans than I am about societies.
Me too, but sometimes you can't separate them in these discussions.
On 9/17/2023 at 6:31 PM, RealMarkDeneen said:The exciting possibilities of YouTube in the early days was that it had no editor, publisher, fact-checker, or censor beyond certain prudish limits on, say, nudity or gore. It was chock full of ALL the logical vectors of information from which the user could review, accept, or reject at his/her own will. It was full of imagination. STOP THE PRESSES! ...
When YT went live in 2005, one of the liveliest arenas was the 3-ring circus around 9/11.
The year 2005 was 4 years after 9/11. Everyone had an interest in going back and discussing "History." It's still interesting to speculate and I wasn't aware of current censorship.
Otoh, Covid-19 hit us stealthily and needed immediate Government response because our Emergency Rooms were projected (and did) get overrun by a contagious virus. No room for all the misinformation being spread on Social Media and elsewhere. Sure, some good things got censored but alot more crap did as well. We were in a Pandimic in the Information Age, with Social Media trying to curb misinformation by learning from mistakes made pre-2017.
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21 hours ago, JJkizak said:
I'm in wonderment as to why this thread has not been locked.
JJK
Oh PLEASE don't! There is valuable content I want to respond to and don't think this discussion could be offensive to anyone who is following along--This isn't a topic that can be divided into simple political lines. Heck, that's already been displayed but I have limited time now and will definitely get back! Thanks for the thoughts and everyone participate in the POLL!
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1 hour ago, Zen Traveler said:
I'm curious, if you predominantly watch that do you also get other things along the same line that interest you? 🤔 Btw, this question is for everyone who enjoys YouTube. 😊
Fwiw, with my Bible interests I get caught up with really good content directed at a specific interest.
Again, exploring the different kind of user-specific algorithms that YouTube uses I am amazed when interests merge such as my following both Biblical archeology/history and Travel. Long time BSers may remember my fascination with the Dead Sea Scrolls and today one of the guys I follow traveling the globe drops this video:
For the record, I discovered this guy during Covid and he really does nice "Being There" travel videos and the value here is how cool it is traveling near where the Dead Sea Scrolls were actually discovered (I've only started watching this video) with excellent 4K video quality. He really has an amazing/extensive travel library for those interested.
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On 9/15/2023 at 12:15 PM, Zen Traveler said:On 9/11/2023 at 1:56 PM, tube fanatic said:
For me it is the best source of free religious and gospel music videos around.
Maynard
I'm curious, if you predominantly watch that do you also get other things along the same line that interest you? 🤔 Btw, this question is for everyone who enjoys YouTube. 😊
Fwiw, with my Bible interests I get caught up with really good content directed at a specific interests. So much so that I gotta step back realizing their algorithms have me pegged! On the flipside, how is it shaping my thought process (in both positive and negative ways)?
Ha! I posed this question to @tube fanatic and others because it is what truly interests me. Although I'm not as concerned about "censorship" as much as others, I'm still wondering how much MISINFORMATION and indoctrination into other endeavors that could be dangerous and not beneficial to society...On that note, this came up on my feed last night and it was contemporary to several discussions I've been having with fellow Klipschsters.
@oldtimer Josephus is one of one of the main/few sources mentioning the historical figure we were talking about. @henry4841 Given your interests stated in our PM you may find it beneficial learning about this time period as well. @RealMarkDeneen I'm not discounting some of the ramifications of Government getting involved--it's come full circle contemplating what Josephus ACTUALLY wrote with his own hand (no printing presses, gang) compared to the editorial process of his Works coming down since then influencing "scholarship" today. Iow, how historically accurate are his writings it? {Warning: This video will bore most people to tears, but I thought it very informative although disagreed with some of the premise}
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1 hour ago, RealMarkDeneen said:
The government interference was abominable and pernicious as well documented in those 155 pages. It was a dystopian nightmare come true.
I read the first 50 pages and skimmed through the rest because it was too painful to read, remembering that time...Suffice it to say, Covid discussion was curbed here because of misinformation and the crazy stuff I had to debate others on Facebook was bewildering. Fwiw, I'm glad they attempted to work together to get us through the pandemic even though they lost this lawsuit.
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53 minutes ago, RealMarkDeneen said:
If the Internet turns into just another government bullhorn, like the NYT, WaPo, NPR, and network TV, it's value will drift to zero and all promise will have been lost. In fact, maybe (probably) it has already happened.
Fwiw, I don't feel you are correct in this assumption but it's beyond the scope of the YouTube discussion.
54 minutes ago, RealMarkDeneen said:Short of a complete legal overhaul of the 1996 Communications Act
I agree this needs to happen.
55 minutes ago, RealMarkDeneen said:Hence, all that ballyhoo about "disinformation" and "misinformation" and "fact checking Authority."
This is the tricky area but what I'm more disturbed by is that so many people think they know something that obviously isn't true when fact-checking is involved....Like I said, it takes ALOT less effort to post something that isn't true than it does to debunk conspiracy theories.
57 minutes ago, RealMarkDeneen said:I think there was a psyop waged in which the populace was taught that information was itself "dangerous"
Fwiw, this came at the time when misinformation was dressed up like "News" and being specifically targeted on Social Media and folks assumed what they were circulating was real. This was a wake up call for social media if they didn't want Government involved and so far they really aren't except for giving warning shots. That's my take.
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7 hours ago, RealMarkDeneen said:
Well, yes. I'm naturally biased in the direction that I believe is most beneficial to society while recognizing that others will believe in other positions.
Me too! 🙈 I want bipartisan agreement to where Government should go insofar as censorship in these publicly owned companies with so much influence by a single person or small group. Fwiw, I thought Facebook and Twitter went in the right direction to curb Government involvement in how their platforms were run and marketed.
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2 hours ago, oldtimer said:
studies have shown that one cannot change others opinions through the exposition of facts.
What we also learned in the Social Media Age that is that it takes alot more effort to debate against a lie (or false meme) than it does to post it.
2 hours ago, oldtimer said:Critical thinking is the first casualty
Yep. Unfortunately, in public discourse it is the lowest common denominator that drives the discussion.
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Bob Gibson the baseball player? I met him in 1972 in Bad Godesberg, Germany and got his autograph.
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On 9/11/2023 at 1:56 PM, tube fanatic said:
For me it is the best source of free religious and gospel music videos around.
Maynard
I'm curious, if you predominantly watch that do you also get other things along the same line that interest you? 🤔 Btw, this question is for everyone who enjoys YouTube. 😊
Fwiw, with my Bible interests I get caught up with really good content directed at a specific interestand. So much so that I gotta step back realizing their algorithms have me pegged! On the flipside, how is it shaping my thought process (in both positive and negative ways)?
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1 hour ago, Jeff Matthews said:
Is a lawsuit proof of extrication of a relation, or is it a manifestation of intimidation leading to a revelation about the power of our nation?
I don't know but I'm glad to see liable charges being brought (and won) against media sources spreading provable lies, as well as, those who served in government being letigated as well.
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Hey guys! Take the poll on "How much you watch YouTube?" I'm curious how much screen time is devoted to it... Meanwhile, enjoy:
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1 hour ago, the real Duke Spinner said:
....If you believer that Gov and Goog are separate entitirs informaymtion wis e.. You are mistaken badly.
Google and our Government are separate entities. See below for one example:
18 minutes ago, oldtimer said:Disregarding the anti trust lawsuit brought against google by the gov, but thats not important right now.
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15 minutes ago, oldtimer said:
Good question, but knowing non factual information seems a lot easier.
I think this is a good starting point!
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18 minutes ago, oldtimer said:
Concurrently, the same private entities are also allowed to censor anything that is attached to their property (see Klipsch Forum and moderation).
Ya know, I joined Facebook after they made major changes in 2017/18 and appreciate how they try and censor misinformation and purposely irresponsible civic behavior as I gather YouTube does. Fwiw, I happen to like Facebook as well, but this thread is about YouTube so I'll leave it there. 👣
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2 hours ago, RealMarkDeneen said:
Just a whim when I resigned up last year. As if..."that old guy is gone....here's the new REAL one." Perhaps just a joke to myself.
I bet deep down the REAL Jeff Mathews does as well and gets the joke...Dunno. Glad you both along with Gilbert are posting.
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How much YouTube do you watch?
in Lounge
Posted
Fwiw, you are the one who chastised me for continuing to talk about Covid. Please don't contribute to having this thread closed while you CANONBALL!