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Everything posted by Gluegun

  1. Can anyone say, the one-two punch that is the Altec 641 and the Logitech z560? Each of those beats the Promedia 4.1 in their own way in sound quality, and both beat it in price, big time.... ------------------ "Feh." This message has been edited by Gluegun on 06-05-2002 at 03:42 AM
  2. Uh, the terms "Obscenely overpriced" come to mind, lol!! ------------------ "Feh."
  3. You got the PM4.2 system? Lol, you don't wanna hear what my personal opinion on that sucker is, lol.... ------------------ "Feh."
  4. It's too loud because you can't turn it down to neutral, duhhh.... at least you can turn an SVS down to 'neutral' and below that! ------------------ "Feh."
  5. BA7800, Logitech z560, Promedia 5.1, and I'm not sure if any 2.1 system gets to 113 dB... 113 dB is about where multimedia maxes out... ------------------ "Feh."
  6. A better upgrade in sound would be to sell your speakers and get something better... Check out this thread... The idea, for upgrading sound quality, is to spend the time, effort, and money where your system is actually WEAKEST... so you will get the biggest change. For example, selling what you have and picking up a set of Altec Lansing 641's, and a Turtle Beach Santa Cruz will be a very effective way to increase your sound quality.... ------------------ "Feh."
  7. I'd still take those dynamic/ribbon VMPS combos over any of these... can you say, "Best of Both Worlds"? I know I can!! ------------------ "Feh."
  8. I'd say, if you want soundstage *AND* dynamics, get some of those VMPS high end ribbon speakers with custom dynamic woofers.. www.vmpsaudio.com ... ------------------ "Feh." This message has been edited by Gluegun on 05-24-2002 at 02:31 AM
  9. Well, the 113 dB systems I know of are the z560 (they don't have a 2.1 system that loud), the PM5.1's, and the BA7800... ------------------ "Feh."
  10. OTL, If you want Roj to read that post of yours, try taking the argument to 3dss.com. He is willing to discuss this there. ------------------ "Feh."
  11. Cool! Which was loudest in your opinion, the z560 or BA7800? ------------------ "Feh."
  12. Anyway, yea, I've seen that Avantegarde website... I still wouldn't want their speakers over some very specific, cheaper options from other companies that do not use horns, even if I had a room in which they a.) would not look out of place and b.) could sound optimum due to room acoustics... ------------------ "Feh." This message has been edited by Gluegun on 05-13-2002 at 11:17 PM
  13. quote: Originally posted by OTL: What PC speaker doesn't? You guys need to lighten up and realize severe sonic compromises have to be made with these types of systems. The fact that you sit a few feet away makes a transparent soundstage impossible. There are plenty of PC speakers that don't. In the low end, try the Monsoon MH-502's. $75 online. in 5.1 systems, try the Monsoon MH-505, for $140. In high end 2.0 system, try the Swan M-200 for $200. Those have a better soundstage (much more depth, gotta love that silk dome tweeter!) than the B&W DM303's... I did a direct comparison... BTW, the Avantgardes are those $65,000 french ones, with the built in sub, right? Or is that something else...? *looks at there website* Oh yea, those are the $45,000 ones. Okay. I've been to this website before--I wasn't all that impressed.. they need a sub, and they didn't really explain the details they said they would explain about why their speakers really WERE better. I want some cold, hard facts in my salespeak, lol... ------------------ "Feh." This message has been edited by Gluegun on 05-13-2002 at 11:13 PM
  14. A friend of mine doesn't like horns... I'll quote a one of his better and more, ahh, interesting arguments... "Other people in the High End insist on resurrecting old technology and promoting it as new technology. In speakers, this means above all, HORNS. Bruce Edgar builds a $20,000 horn, that French outfit a $65,000 horn. Horns?? With phenolic drivers? Many milliseconds of delay? The megaphone effect (reflections within the horn throat that make everybody sound like Rudy Vallee)? Yes, the efficiency is amazing, as is the sound pressure. Yes its impactful and sounds better with those 5 Watt single-ended triode power amps. Yes the overall sound quality is marginal to dreadful. No, theres nothing you can do about it: change the driver, change the horn throat, equalize, use better materials. Nothing really helps. Dont listen to horns, theyre bad for your aural health." Oh, by the way, Roj heard some Horns, and he LIKED the high end Klipsches (hell, I'm sure *I WILL TOO*, as soon as I hear them with music that needs a good amount of impact!), but they *do* have a signature sound that makes them more suited to some types of music over others! Think that Rudy Valee argument (not by Roj) that i posted.. A signature sound like that reduces versatility, which, IMO, is a bad thing. I like my systems to be versatile... cause that means I don't have to buy a bunch of different systems for different types of sound! I have been doing that, you know--with headphones. Those are cheap enough that you can buy four different high end models from four different brands, so you can switch depending on your current music. Speakers, which are a bit more expensive, means you probably can't do this. Therefore, accuracy and versatility are very important to me. IMHO, any signature sound that is further than necessary from 'accuracy' is a bad thing! I found a good webpage talking about signature sounds, and such... it's a good read if you want to figure out a good way to compare and contrast speakers... http://www.audionote.co.uk/anp1.htm In relateds stuff.. the fact that horns direct sound the way they do caused Klipsch to have to make a few compromises with the Promedias. Horns are made for big rooms--the KHorns, of course, sound best in corner loading-- so that means that they AREN'T well suited to near-field multimedia. Klipsch knows this, and designed the Promedia tweeter to have a wider dispersal... lessee, compromised horn in a compromised location with a compromised design. No wonder I don't really like the Promedia highs. Yes, I have heard them... ------------------ "Feh." This message has been edited by Gluegun on 05-13-2002 at 10:48 PM
  15. quote: Originally posted by Btrigg: OLT, imo they are very biased compared to most, but it is true that horn speakers seem to flaten the sound stage and imaging since they are compacting the sound. I like my promedias, but I will say the transparecy is not there, although they make it sound like the pros sound like ish because of that, when this is not the case. They play all the same sounds, just don't place them with any accuracy. This is not notciable till you hear a set without horns, but the difference is there. They just put a lot of importance on that difference. The Klipsch sound is in your face, which doesn't sound as good as more neutral speakers imo. This is for music only though, movies and games, the Klipsch rule. I agree very strongly with this statement... another part of my case is that it is very inexpensive to get an incredibly detailed, awesome for imaging, very accurate and tight sounding 5.1 system for about $140.... If we didn't have an option that was such an incredible contrast to the Promedia 5.1's at such an inexpensive price, we might not be so zealous. By the way, i'm talking about 5.1 systems.... with 4.1 systems, and the price that the promedia 4.1's are... I believe that the 4.1's aren't a good value... I would definitely consider the 5.1's if ever I wanted a 5.1 system, though! ------------------ "Feh." This message has been edited by Gluegun on 05-13-2002 at 08:20 PM
  16. The Stereophile Glossary says... http://www.stereophile.com/fullarchives.cgi?50 'imaging The measure of a system's ability to float stable and specific phantom images, reproducing the original sizes and locations of the instruments across the soundstage. See "stereo imaging." ' 'stereo imaging The production of stable, specific phantom images of correct localization and width. See "soundstaging," "vagueness," "wander." ' 'soundstaging, soundstage presentation The accuracy with which a reproducing system conveys audible information about the size, shape, and acoustical characteristics of the original recording space and the placement of the performers within it. ' 'Sidebar 5: About Soundstaging The ideal stereo soundstage for a large performing group will center the performers across an area of about 2/3 to 3/4 of the distance between the loudspeakers, and will audibly separate the front rows from the receding rows (layering). There will be an awareness of the reflective boundary walls of the acoustic space behind and to the sides of the performers, and the spatiality of the hall itself will extend a considerable distance beyond the distance between the loudspeakers. The ideal is achieved only from suitably miked recordings. Specific phantom images will often appear beyond the speakers when the performing group was wider than the axis lines of a coincident pair of microphones, or if the recording has been specifically encoded with recoverable ambient surround information. Such "beyond-the-speakers" imaging, however, is only audible from the sweet spot. Surround-encoded recordings, played on a properly implemented surround-sound system, can cause the hall ambience to "wrap around" to the rear, completely enveloping the listener as in an actual concert hall, and can even place instruments in any direction around the listener. So-called "derived-ambience" decoders can extract the ambient spatial information from unencoded recordings, but cannot place phantom images at the sides or rear. ' 'Soundstaging WIDTH: Good: beyond-the-speakers, floating, palpable, spacious Not Good: narrow, pinched, restricted CONTINUITY: Good: center fill, coherent, stereo spread Not Good: bunched, hole-in-the-middle DEPTH: Good: layering, perspective Not Good: distant, flat, forward, laid-back, polite, recessed, Row-A, Row-M ' Does that help? The promedias all commit a few soundstaging sins, most prominantly having far 'forward' soundstaging... but the promedias have better soundstaging if you place the speakers at ear level, and point them directly at your ears. Try it with some orchestral or jazz music and find out what I mean. Here's some old stuff that a friend of mine, named Roj, said about the v.4-200's and the 2.1's. His opinion has stayed the same throughout the entire line of promedias, all of which he has heard.. "A brute force approach to imaging Despite all the rhetoric Klipsch has been spouting for years, there is no horn-loaded speaker in existence that can accurately reproduce silky highs and a detailed and well-imaged soundstage. Horns, even the hybrid horns that Klipsch chose to use in their satellites, shoot sound at you with all the finesse of a rocket launcher. The all-encompassing feel of Stevie Ray Vaughans Rivera Paradise doesnt come across. Neither does the acoustic guitar magic in Toni Braxtons Spanish Guitar or the swirling magnificence of Strauss On The Beautiful Blue Danube. The drivers used in both the 2.400s and the 2.1s simply cant do the job properly because of their innate design the sound definitely reaches your ears but it lacks the subtle nuances so crucial to producing a truly good stereo image. The Monsoon hybrid flat panel / cone speaker design and the Boston Acoustics single all-purpose high frequency / midrange driver do a far better job of creating a detailed soundstage, although the Boston Acoustics were behind the Monsoons at the very high end, likely because of their lack of a dedicated tweeter. " By the way, he was referring to Boston Acoustics OLD speakers, and Monsoon's OLD speakers.... ------------------ "Feh." This message has been edited by Gluegun on 05-12-2002 at 05:36 PM
  17. Altecs and Cruz are gonna give you waaaay higher sound quality, at a far cheaper price, than the Klipsch and Fortissimo... ------------------ "Feh."
  18. Oh, and I *VERY* strongly suggest you get a Turtle Beach Santa Cruz over the other sound cards you mentioned! Here's a review... http://www.epinions.com/content_55647309444 Here's the cheapest used place to get it: http://shop.store.yahoo.com/axion1/sotbsntcruzp.html Here's the cheapest new place to get it: http://shop.store.yahoo.com/newegg/29-118-101.html ------------------ "Feh."
  19. Logitech gets louder than Klipsch. The Logitech sub is capable of more exaggeration than the Klipsch. The logitech system has less harsh highs than the Klipsch. The more recent streamlined versions of hte Logitech system, ie, the ones that allow you to reduce the volume so as not to bee so exaggerated, sound less boomy than the Klipsch. IT IS ONLY THE OLDER VERSIONS OF THE LOGITECH SUB THAT ARE OVERPOWERING. IF YOU ARE REALLY WORRIED ABOUT GETTING A QUALITY SUB, GET THE 641'S OVER THE Z560'S AND THE PROMEDIA 4.1'S. If I was tight on budget and cared about music a lot, i would get the Altec 641's over the Logitechs. If I could spend $250, I would get the BA7800. With music, IMO, quality tweeters are important, and I also believe that I would rather not have highs than have overly-bright highs that are too far 'forward' so as to be fatiguing. To this end, I prefer a quality implementation of some tweeters, and I do not believe that the Promedia style of horn-loading tweeters is good. I like the tweeters in the 641's and ba7800's better... but if I REALLY wanted quality music in a 4.1 system, I'd get a set of Monsoon MM-2000!! Those wont win any loudness awards, however. The order I put this, from my strongest suggestion to my weakest is as follows: Boston Acoustics BA7800 Altec 641 Logitech z560 Promedia 4.1 If I didn't care about loudness and baaaaaasssss, I would put the Monsoon MM-2000 abouve the BA7800. ------------------ "Feh." This message has been edited by Gluegun on 05-11-2002 at 12:20 AM
  20. Here are some quotes from a guy called dvdvideo, who was known on the 3dss forums for buying and selling and buying and selling his way through dozens of multimedia speakers. Here are some fun quotes of his of the ba7800's... "The z560's are an excellent set of speakers, especially considering the price, but, they just don't have the fidelity that these boston's do. That and the silly bass won't set up right without an equalizer......and a sock!" "Tha ba7800 subwoofer is a downfiring 8" wooden subwoofer. It goes down deep 30-50hz ish, and still has lots of nice punch. I actually prefer it to the z560 sub." "Mark, for what it's worth, it seemed to me that the Boston 7800 sub was superior to the z560 sub. Best 4.1 system? IMHO, probably." (in response to the z560 vs boston acoustics sub) "Well, it has the same ability to reach down to 30-35HZ, boom when it needs to, but is still able to have some punch. The z560 is a bit weak in the "punch" area. " (once more in response to the z560 vs boston acoustics sub, saying how the z560 perform) "Nope, not kidding. I've not only heard them, I've had 3 sets. TONS of boom with the logitech, but the mid-bass (70-150HZ) could have more punch. I found the ba7800 had more punch in this area. I wouldn't call the z560 muddy, just more rounded, less thunky. Don't know how else to describe it. " "The ba7800 sub is exceptional....easily the best I have heard. TIght and punchy yet still able to go low and rumble with the big boys. Better than the Klipsch 4.1, (haven't hear 5.1), z560, Polk AMR150, MH-505, ADA885, 641's, ATP5, etc. Haven't heard midiland." "How about bass compared to the logitechs?? I personally like it more. It is tighter, more defined, is controlable to a level that doesn't overpower the speakers. That, and it still goes BOOM when you need it to." "I never heard the ba7500's, but I heard a lot of bad things. Plus they use the same sub as the ba4800's and mediatheater (both of which I had), and those subs were less than spectacular. As far as the Z560 vs Ba7800 for loud, I would have to say I think the Ba7800 are louder. Not that at really matters at that kind of insane volume anyhow." Here are some reviews/impressions of the 7800 http://www.3dsoundsurge.com/cgi-bin/wwwthreads/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=Forum4&Number=52508&page=&view=&sb=&o=&vc=1 http://www.3dsoundsurge.com/cgi-bin/wwwthreads/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=Forum4&Number=62341&page=&view=&sb=&o=&vc=1 http://www.3dsoundsurge.com/cgi-bin/wwwthreads/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=Forum4&Number=53509&page=&view=&sb=&o=&vc=1 ------------------ "Feh."
  21. Gyah!! BA7800 for $260 after shipping, and Turtle Beach Santa Cruz for $45 before shipping.... is THAT in your budget? that gives you the highest sound quality, most loudness, most stability, best bass of pretty much anything... I'll find a few BA7800 reviews, including the ones that compare it directly to the Monsoon MH-505 and the Logitech z560's, which are both REALLY heavy hitters in what they are good at.... and the 7800's come out on top... This, combined with the brand new WinDVD 4, (there aren't any hacks yet out for that, but there should be soon), or the old standby, PowerDVD XP 4, are the best choice, IMO... they give you all the dolby digital and dts processing you could want! That, and my own listening test, are the basis of my recommendations... I'll find those links soon... ------------------ "Feh." This message has been edited by Gluegun on 05-10-2002 at 08:06 PM
  22. At minus how many decibels, hmmm? The number is useless without any clarification.... You do raelize the reason they only have 100 watts rms is that Boston Acoustics is being more honest than Logitech and Klipsch in their wattage ratings? The others exaggerate it by using 'Burst RMS' instead of continuous RMS... ------------------ "Feh." This message has been edited by Gluegun on 05-10-2002 at 07:53 PM
  23. Uh, where exactly did you hear that they dont go as low as these other systems? That completely contradicts everything I have heard about these speakers, as well as what my ears tell me. That might be true for the BA7500, but not the BA7800... You can buy them here, for $250 + $10 S&H... http://www.gateway.com/products/gca/snda/ba7800.asp?seg=hm They can go down to 32 hz at - 3db. That's about as low as multimedia systems GO, man!!! Remember, the BA7800 gets louder and has more bass slam than the z560... ------------------ "Feh." This message has been edited by Gluegun on 05-10-2002 at 07:07 PM
  24. quote: Originally posted by iDoNtKnOe2k1: Do i really need the tweeters in the Promedia? I already have trouble with the tweeters being too bright with my RF-3IIs Which sub is better on loud levels, ex. bass tests. I have narrowed out the bostons because of the bad return policy at gateway. At the best buy here they sell the klipsch, logitechs and the altecs. I seen the altecs and the sub is huge. Which would work as a footrest also because im putting the sub under my desk on a corner to maximize sub sound. and sometimes i put my feet on the sub. Thanks....is the Santa Cruz sound card advailble at best buy or circuit city...i have chose the santa cruz for the 6 channel speaker capability when i upgrade again but the fortississmo has good software included like the 4 channel Windvd The z560's are pretty much the loudest of all of these systems (except the 7800), and they are capable of the most bass exaggeration as well... The Altec sub uses two 6.5" drivers, and the z560 uses one 8" driver.. The Cruz is avaiable at these places... i've seen it at Compusa... you can get it cheaply online, however. I suggest you don't discount the BA7800's first thing, you know? they are a really great system... you can order the BA7800's online, or you can go into a Gateway store and ask them to order it for you... you could, at that Gateway store, figure out some details on a return policy, too... ------------------ "Feh."
  25. I was talking to Movz, and I am aware that you, Justin, do not like the sound. I find nothing wrong with that. ------------------ "Feh."
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