Shock-Late

After reading several posts about ringing mids, and dynamat, and so on, I have to say that I'm a little confused. Let me tell you what disturbs me... First, I can't believe some folks here actually don't hear the midrange ring!!! have you ever tried to play something like a single TALKING voice, like an humorist or something, doing a one-man-show, at even moderately high volumes? on my K400 you can actually hear the metallic decay after the end of each word, and it's not subtle! Of course, in music you won't hear it by itself, because it gets mixed with the rest, but it's stil there! Hence the headaches!!! Secondly, we're talking METALLIC midrange horns here... I just saw a post about some folk here saying that "he found the ringing in his 1993 K-horns wasn't disturbing"...well, tell me if I'm wrong, but I suspect 1993 K-horns to have plastic horns, and I suspect plastic horns don't "ring", they may have their own resonance maybe, but at a much lower, less agressive frequency than a metallic horn!! Why do you think bells are made fom metal and not plastic??? Third, I'm not sure that resonance in horn midrange may be a good thing, whatever the case. I'm not sure I like my Scalas because they sound agressive and metallic at high volumes; I like them because of their speed, dynamics, bass articulation and of course because of their very low power requirements. Now, if my Scalas could have B&W 801-style neutrality, while retaining speed, attack, and output level, I'm not sure i would hate it... All that said, I never tried dynamat yet. I want to do it. But I was already thinking about something. Let's just assume for a moment that horn ringing has been taken into account when PWK created the vintage speakers. it would explain why some folks here find their dynamated horns a bit too laidback and lacking "air". The annoying part is that we want our big klipsches to stop ringing, but we don't want the resulting mids to be really quieter than before, do we? we wanna stop the "honk". So, maybe removing the buzz screen from the midrange drivers would re-equilibrate the sound the way we like it. On my LS, removing the buzz screen actually made the mids sound LOUDER, and it was TOO MUCH, so i put it back after a few hours listening tests. But, whit dynamated horns, maybe it would be a good thing... I don't know, of course, these are just suppositions. Does anybody have tried both mods, dynamat+buzz screen off? Frans

hey guys, well, as I'm not able to buy a new pair of ALk crossovers for my old scalas directly from Al, because I don't have enough money (and I probably never will have enough, not to say that ALK x-overs are too expensive, they're not to be sure, but they're way out of my budget, wich is a student budget)... So if any of you guys has a spare set of ALK x-overs you wanna get rid off, just tell me, please!! I know there won't be many answers, so if someone wanna get rid of his "last generation" klipsch original x-overs, it would be cool too, as i'm sure it would still sound better than my current AA's that are just too old... Thanks! ;-) Frans

quote: Originally posted by J Tanman: I am looking for a good clean preamp for 2 channel music only that is $1000 or less. Ideally I would like to find a way to have some sort of bass management/active crossover so that I can send a limited frequency range to the main amps and a separate signal to the sub amps. Does this exist outside of a digital HT preamp? Thanks for any suggestions. Proton preamps generally have one high-pass output and one low-pass output, with a 75Hz x-over frequency, along their full-range output. Anyway you could use any preamp and use an active x-over.

I would be tempted to say that, unless you've got lots of cash, it's better to stick with SS amps. Good tube amps sound incredible, but good tube amps are very expensive. At the lower price range, a good little SS amp sounds far better...at least for me. Now there may be exeptions, but you'll have to find them.

Humph...so those are the kind of posts we can find in the "general questions". Great. Now, please, make it understandible(able? sorry french speaker here) for everybody who could jump on this post, or do it private. Because, when you read it without knowing what it's all about, it is really really frustrating! But maybe that's just "none of my business": why then posting this here? regards, Frans

What about Miller and Kreisel subs? These american subs get great comments and ratings here in europe, their product range is extensive (huh...and expensive too), but i've never seen any klipsch fan recommanding one here... So what? Aren't they good subs? i was just wondering...the MX3000THX in particular seems particularly great...

quote: Originally posted by TBrennan: George--You can see the tractrix Cornwall mod on my website, just click the little house icon. I think the mod gave the CWs a smoother more natural sound. How much of this was due to the "tractrixness" of the new horn and how much was due to the new horn's different dispersion pattern and larger entrance I don't know. The supporters of tractrix horns claim a smoother sound for them and the tractrix horns I've heard sound good but then so do many of the non-tractrix horns I've heard and used. This week I'll be receiving a pair of Bruce Edgar's "saladbowl" round tractrix horns to use with my JBL and Altec compression drivers, the results should be interesting. It might be beneficial to mount the tweeter vertically, it was intended to be used that way, but leaving it horizontal makes the cabinet work of the mod much easier. Actually vertical mounting might make the tweeter dispersion too wide compared to the mids and be a bad thing, just thinking. huh... I must say this thing about T35 being less directive when mounted vertically leaves me quite breathless...I think nobody will ever be able to say wether or not this tweeter was designed for vertical mounting...OR maybe it is only if rear-monted, the slot in the front baffle acting just like an acoustic slot??? I don't know. I should try before speaking...lol Frans

Wow!! what a nice home theater you got there! frankly, as long as you have a good sub, you shouldn't worry too much about "missing klipschorns". Your Scalas are great, offering a very similar sound from 100Hz above, and they allow you a far greater flexibility for placement! Not to mention yours look incredibly smart, with their neat grilles and beautiful black finish! if only mine were like those! There's one thing "disturbing" me, tough...i see you use your Scalas not toed-in at all...in my set up, when i do that, i get a "hole" in the middle...Also, I would try to put the retroprojector at equal distance from both scalas...but this is nit-picking, and frankly your system looks GREAT! congratulations!!! François

quote: Originally posted by TBrennan: Shock---Not all K-55Vs exhibit the 9kz flare, a friend's testing showed it in about 20% of the units tested. Grrreat, now this is going more confused! Anyway, I have another set of K55V, will try a swap tomorrow (already used them but since I swapped amps too i don't remember if the other set of K55V sounds harsh...geeez, this is going to ask a few more hours to spend listening to music saying "ho hum, now is it really better that way? wouldn't it be better if i changed the tweeters too? what if i toe them in slightly less?..."

I made something completely crazy today: i plugged my old ADC equalizer in my set-up!!!! I know, I know, I don't like equalizers either. BUT having the old K55V with the 9KHz glitch, and having old AA x-overs, I wanted to try to egalize this glitch by cutting about 4 dBs at 8Khz (9Khz non available!) on the equa, just trying to hear (very approximatively) what it could sound like without this glitch. I understand that what I hear with the equa is not really what it would sound like with AlK x-overs or with K55M drivers...But am I getting close? because, I HATE to say that, but hum...my scalas...well...they sound MUCH better with the equa ON!! (of course, i didn't touch to the other frequencies. just -4dBs around 8KHz) And I don't want to keep the equalizer! I HATE equalizers! So, would i get the "same" result with k55M, or with AlK cross-overs (wich are way too expensive for me alas)? And, Al, considering I cannot afford your x-overs, wouldn't there be a way to add something in the AA x-overs that would also attenuate the 9KHz glitch? like transforming the high-pass midrange section into a bandpass, but for economical reasons without changing the tweeter and woofer filtering??? I know this seems stupid but since i have two sets of AA I can sacrifice and transform one... Thanks for your advice, Al! Frans

quote: Originally posted by sunnysal: shock, sorry it took me so long to reply, I have been on a trip...my preamp is far from Hi-end...however I suspect it will sound better than the technics unit...I too agree with the others that your results sound as if your speakers are screwed up...muffled should not describe a pair of La Scalas!...don´t worry about the gift thing, if you want the preamp send me via e-mail your address and I will get a shipping quote (that will be your only cost)...however as others have pointed out (any many of us have learned through experience) these intermediate steps are almost always wasted...saving up for a truly top quality unit is usually much better (and much less frustrating) then going through two or three mid level units on the way...and by the way going straight for gold (after saving up) is always less expensive overall than acquiring all these other units on the way!!!...please give serious consideration to the possiblity that you are not liking the speakers or that they are damaged...can you find some good friend to lug a pair of speakers over to your home in order to hear your electronics through another set of transducers? that would go a long way towards troubleshooting this problem...everything but the tecnics preamp sounds great, I do not think the groos muffling should be due to that component...anyone who can loan you another preamp for an hour or so to see what happens with a preamp swap...well that´s all for now...best of luck, tony Tony, when I said my system was "muffled" i was in fact talking about it when listening to a particular rock record that i like very much and who is particularly difficult for most electronics to reproduce correctly, because there are so much things going on that with the wrong set-up you don't hear anything more than...noise, and with this preamp that's actually all i heard from this record: lead vocals completely hidden by other sounds, drums sounding so "far away"...It's not an audiophile recording, of course, but as it is the music i like I want it to sound good. And believe me, when I unplug the preamp, going directly into the power amp (wich is specially good with rock, and that's why I choose this one after listening to quite a few different amps) i hear everything, and the lead vocals are present, and the sound is all klipsch (uh, and yes it means more harsh than muffled!! ;-) ) I remember i had the same experience with an integrated AMC tube amp i tried a few months ago: with jazz or classical it sounded quite OK (tough not particularly great nor sweet), but with my favourite music everything sounded horrible, muffled and melted together. With less "chaotic" music this preamp has a "reasonable" level of resolution, but still lacks life and excitement. Sound is flat and dead, with no dynamics and a "cupped-hands" midrange, wich combined with the already slightly "horny"(!) midrange sound from my old scalas, makes for a very disappointing result... I'm well aware that your preamp isn't high-end, but it's surely "higher-end" than my technics, and anyway my CD player and power amp aren't high-end, considering their modest price, but i'm sure it would be difficult to find better without spending at least twice as much .... What's more, I don't know this preamp, and I like to discover brands from the US that are not distributed here in europe...kinda having something "different", even if it's not from a high-end brand. That's cool. Of course, I don't know how much UPS will ask for the shipping, since it's quite from US to Europe, and if it's the price of a good preamp here then it's not worth bothering you, but frankly I hope it won't be the case!:-) I already sent my adress to you via e-mail, let me know if you didnt receive it. Warm regards , François

quote: Originally posted by jread: I thought the K-55M was made by ATLAS. No, the Atlas one is the K55V. Frans

I own Scalas for nine months now...and I live in Belgium! (hello, neighbour!) BUT that's not all; I payed 12000Fb for them (around 300 Euros or 250 US$ I think)!!! They're very old, very ugly (painted in pale grey, with plastic corner protections: previous owner used to go "dee-jaying" with them) but it was the only way for me, a 23 years-old student, to buy Scalas so I didn't care about the looks!! I consider myself very lucky!!! What's said in the other posts about respective qualities and defaults of these speakers is absolutely true, tough: My old-model metal mid-horns ring A LOT; with some music it's very annoying. This is not as subtle as some guys here seem to say...and I'm on my way to dynamat them. The rear-mounted tweeter definitely needs to be flush-mounted; side-by side auditioning shows that a great part of the harshness is due to the rear-mounted tweeter. Flush-mounting them might also help imaging. Again, I don't find it is a "subtle" improvement! There's definitely a lack of low bass frequencies if you like your music to "enlarge" the room and shake the walls. I didn't have the cash yet but a good sub is calling for!! My old AA x-overs are certainly not good enough. I think a pair of AlK x-overs, or at least some AL3 with K55M drivers, would be nice... Expect yourself to spend endless ours to find the pefect amp and CD... If you once thougt that "all amps and cd sound the same" (wich wasn't my case), you won't believe your ears! same goes for the cables! but that's what the fun is all about, of course...exept if, like me, you first buyed the wrong amp. it might cost a lot of money.... Don't even think about listening to "background music" with Scalas...At very low levels, they don't have any bass at ALL, and sound is "dying in the speakers"...mostly due to their high sensitivity, making the amp deliver in it's "wrong" power range at very low levels. The same applies with most +100dB speakers. All that said, they are GRRRREAT speakers, and I LOVE them. They're just not the ideal "fit-and-forget" speakers. You must be passioned to own such difficult beasts...Considering all your replies and answers, i'm sure you are! ;-) So GO ON, help me tell all europeans they should buy klipsch!! BUY A PAIR OF SCALAS! :-)) Warm regards, François

You might want to try a new amp; I would suggest the same amp as the one i use, because I chose it after listening to several other amps for its punch and grip in the low frequencies. It's a Musical Fidelity Typhoon Serie 3 power amp. It's 2 x 45W but incredibly nervous and powerful. It's no longer made, but you can buy one for fairly cheap on the used market. it's absolutely great with all musics except with chamber music (a bit TOO forceful). With rock and techno it's the best amp i heard in its price range. My speakers are Scalas, and this amp was the only one able to give me taut, strong bass from them (in the price range i heard, of course.) If you decide to try one (don't buy without trying), find a "third issue" model (only way to recognize them is t look at the printed board inside, looking trough the aeration holes) because i think they have two times bigger power supply than previous issues. You will also need adaptors, because it only has balanced inputs. regards, frans

quote: Originally posted by sunnysal: shock, if you are really sure that the preamp is the problem, that the CD player plugged in directly sounded wonderful then I have two possiblities for you (both very cheap)...#1 buy a creek passive preamp, it only switches betwwen two source components and only has a remote volume control but is the most transparent preamp I have ever heard (randy bey uses one as well and I am sure he agrees), I don't know your set up so I am not sure this stripped down unit will work but it is less than $250...#2 in my constant search for better sound from my k-horns I have left some units behind that really were not bad, just did not fit will in my system synergistically...one of these was the creek preamp which I gave to randy and one of these is a SS preamp from sound valves...it is the sv100 Jfet preamplifier...pretty darn transparent...it gathering dust in my closet right now...if you are interested I could ship it to you DHL or UPS collect, if you like it send me back a gift (we can talk about what after you try it out, the gift is optional because "strangers" often feel wierd about accepting gifts...randy forced me to take a gift when I sent him my Creek preamp...) if it doesn't thirll you you can send it back to me the same way (I will pay the reutrn postage) sell it and send me the money, give it to a good friend or family member...whatever...as I siad this thing sits in my closet waiting for my wife to force me to give it away...I hate to see you suffering so (and I know how you fell, the stereo hobby can be a black hole for money)...so if you want, send my your address so I can get a shipping quote...if not I would suggest you buy the Creek unit (online from audioadvisor, used from audiogon/ebay, or somewhere in europe)...warm regards, Tony Wow, Tony, I would for sure be interested by your preamp! But would there be a way to send you a gift you would appreciate as much as i would appreciate this one? I mean, you would send me something I need bad, something that would solve my problem, and I wouldn't be able to do the same for you, as I don't have hi-fi stuff i don't use, except things nobody wants (main reason why i still have them ;-)) such as Onkyo tape decks and Thorens non-functioning record player, not to mention old "burned" ss amps... And I would feel bad receiving a gift from you without being able to do the same. Excepted if you like belgian chocolates, and stuff like that!! Maybe there's something here in belgium you cannot find in your country and you ould like to receive? just tell me. Then I'll give you my adress for the UPS price. Many thanks, Tony, for your help and kindness. Warm regards, François

Having to find a new preamp, I currently have the choice between two: one is a remote-controlled Marantz SC80, the other one is a simple rotel RC980BX with only volume and source knobs. The seller says the rotel is better. In fact he sells the rotel at a 30% higher price than the Marantz (wich costs nearly twice a s much when new) because there's much more demand on Rotel. But the Marantz has been completely revised by an audiophile, and all original condos have been remplaced with higher quality stuff. That said, I wasn't able to see any review of the marantz (i've found great reviews of the Rotel). I'd like the marantz because it's less expensive, more beautiful, and it has remote control (quite handy 'cause i'm sitting very far from my electronics). But if it doesn't sound good it's not worth all the stuff. So what do you guys think? Marantz or Rotel? I've got a Musical fidelity typhoon power amp, La scalas, and a kenwood DP7090 Cd player.

quote: Originally posted by Ray Garrison: Shock-Late, I wouldn't spend a lot of time or effort agonizing over tubes vs solid state, cables, things like that. The kind of gross effect you are talking about is much bigger than the kinds of changes that you'd hear moving from one amp to another, or one type of cable to another. Either you just plain don't like the way the La Scalas sound (which is quite possible), or something is very, very wrong. However, calling the Scalas "muffled" is so far away from the typical description of their sound that it leads me to believe that something, someplace, is out of whack. A lot of people don't like them because they think the Scalas are too bright, or too forward, or don't have enough bass, but I've never heard anyone, anywhere, complain that they sound muffled. You said you checked everything - drivers, crossovers, etc. What, exactly, did you do? If you disconnect the squawker and bass horn connections from the crossover board, leaving only the tweeters connected, and play something, what do you hear? Ditto the midrange and woofer? Are you sure that the two speakers are in phase with each other? In fact I've got TWO sets of AA x-overs, K55V and K77M. I changed everything, it still sounded the same. But I now know that the problem is the preamp: when i connect directly my CD player into my power amp (both are very good), using the remote controlled output level of the CD, the sound is excellent. Problems came with the preamp. And a friend explained me why yesterday: to his point of view, no old SS preamp can sound good because they all use internal filters to get rid of the noise inherent to every old SS circuitery. Thoses filters are responsible to kill the sound stone dead. Probably this preamp would sound good with less revealing amp and speakers, but in my set-up it sounded like the sound litterally "died" in the speakers instead of opening up to the listening position. Quite a strange impression, because you couldn't tell precisely that "this preamp lacks treble" or "there is distortion". That's really a pity, because otherwise i love this preamp: build quality and knobs are to die for!! Much better stuff that today's most mid-fi preamps!!

That's not the first time I say that but this time i really mean it!! MY SYSTEM (Scala, Musical fidelity amp, technics class A preamp, Kenwood top-model CD, Nordost interconnects) SOUNDS LIKE **** !!!!! I'm 23, i don't have money, all I can spare goes into my hi-fi, and it sounds no better than my best friend's Pioneer micro!!! it seems unbelievable but it's TRUE!!! It just goes WAY louder...of course, but I'd like GOOD sound! I've tried everything! (changing speakers position, cables, etc, etc) I've CHECKED everything too (drivers, x-overs, amps,...) everything is OK! Actually I think maybe a new preamp is calling for, but i just bought this one five days ago!!! :-(((( The worst thing about my sound is: it doesn't breath. It's muffled, it lacks transparency... I'm fed up...

Now, what kind of improvement would i get if I change my K55V for K55M, keeping my old x-overs AA?? Worth the money? (quite 250$ for a second-hand pair of EV drivers in good condition here...) Don't know what to do, my set-up sounds just awful for now...(see my new post in 2 channels audio) Frans

Thanks for your help guys!

I have the opportunity to buy second-hand Electro-Voice midranges. I'd like to know if they are the same as the one used in klipsch speakers (K55M). What is the name of these when you buy them from EV??? I also need to know (and that's where i need YOU, Al) if I could use K55M midranges with my old AA crossovers... Thanks guys!

Today, as i entered in the hi-fi shop next to the records shop i work in, i noticed a few just-arrived second-hand stuff. There were two dynaco Stereo 120 power amp, an older Dynaco power amp wich i didn't recognize, a SPLENDID sansui preamp with red lacker case (!) alondg with an old tuner, bandrecorder and phono...Typically, it was an old man's stereo, probably the old guy was dead and the wife sold all the stuff. Anyway, as the seller is my friend i managed to take a Dynaco at home for a try with my scalas. (he's ready to sell me the Dynaco power amps at 70$ a piece, so i couldn't resist the tentation of comparing them with my Musical fidelity power amp). Well, this stereo 120 sounds damn good! so warm, without being dull! i'm amazed to hear such a good sound coming from one of the first SS amp, they all have that "harsh" reputation! What a nice stereo image, and not even noise or hummm to talk about!! And it's even more at home with the high output of mu technics preamp than my MF power amp, for wich the technics has too much output. Do you think 70$ is a fair price for a stereo 120? is it any worth? Does anyone here has one, or has experience with one? I'd like to share my impressions! Frans

Hi guys! Finally bought the Technics preamp, complete with original user booklet. Didn't have the time to listen to it a lot but first impressions are(with my MF Typhoon power amp): -HUGE output level: bad thing in my case, when i get on 9 o'clock on the volume knob it sounds WAY too loud...kind of dance-club levels. -Very silent! 106 dBA S/N, and you can ('t) hear it! -Warm, dynamic sound, not harsh at all, strong bass (oh yeah) -less transparency than with a passive preamp (as always), compact but precise imaging -Excellent build, beautiful solid knobs, 15 Lbs, darlington Class A output stage, DC circuit, and inside it's "Haute Couture"! frankly, i didn't expect to see such beautiful circuitey and components inside a japanese early-eighties preamp! Now trying it with an old Dynaco stereo 120 power amp (see new post) regards, Frans

I'm quite astounded to hear that, moving to a larger house, you have to sell your rig. Now that's none of my buziness, but if I was you...I think I wouldn't let my wife or anybody else tell me I have to sell everything! That's not fair!

I won't get a lot of friends by saying this but i have to: first, get a TRUE CD-player, and a GOOD one! No DVD player can even come close to a good CD player. The more so if you use an optical interconnect; you now use the receiver's internal N/A converter, wich is maybe good for movies but certainly not very good for music...I would buy a CD player with a good internal DAC and connect it to an analogue input of the receiver. If it isn't enough, maybe another amp is calling for...a true hi-fi, stereo amp, with music in mind...I like dolby digital too, but frankly for music you need a stereo amp, from an audiophile brand. I use Musical Fidelity, and i'm very happy with the sound (with la scalas). But before you ditch the amp, go for a CD player. The one I use is relatively cheap and works very well. It's a Kenwood DP7090. It uses eight Burr Brown PCM1702 in its DAC and costs a little over $500 i think. I use it with Nordost Flatline "Solar Wind" interconnects ($120?) with great success. Have fun! ;-) Frans