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Tarheel TJ
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Posts posted by Tarheel TJ
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As jjptkd said, this is absolutely possible by using adapters. Though it was not a tractrix horn, I have swapped out the k400 horn, while continuing to use the K-55v. See this thread:
Initial impressions were good. However, the problem with this approach, which you will see in the thread, is that the K-400 (and k-500, k-700 presumably) was very carefully designed to work with the k-55v. PWK used the "pattern flip" effect that results from the loss of directivity that the K-400 experiences to complement the natural frequency response of the k-55v. They are engineered so that the directivity loss occurs right around the point that the frequency response of the k-55v starts to drop. This keeps the on-axis frequency response relatively flat. If you put the K-55v on another horn that does not have this property, it will require EQ.
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Sounds like a nice upgrade! With multiple subs and an acoustically treated room, you should be getting really good results. The extra amplifier power won’t hurt either.
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I have a 2230 as well. Mine crackles a fair bit on startup. I usually turn it on with the speaker selector turned to “off”. Let the amp settle for a minute or two and then turn the speakers to “on”. As others have mentioned, deoxit on the pots also helps.
If you are so inclined, you can get a full rebuild kit from irebuildmarantz.com . I just got started rebuilding mine last week. It will be like a brand new unit when done. You will need to have some experience soldering parts to circuit boards to do this yourself.-
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I can only speak to the MiniDSP, as I have never used a Xilica. I find the MiniDSP software plugin (I am using 4x10HD) to be extremely straightforward and easy to use. There is definitely a learning curve to getting good results with it, but the software itself is very easy and intuitive to use. I got decent results right off the bat, and really, really good results after a few months of trial and error. Now I can setup a speaker or swap a component and have it perfectly dialed in after an hour or two of measuring and adjusting.
17 minutes ago, babadono said:And with the Xilica you get 96kHz converters. I think the mini is 48kHz.
The basic MiniDSP ($99) is 48kHz, but the MiniDSP 2x4HD ($199) and the MiniDSP 4x10HD ($499) are 96kHz. I hear the 48kHz versions have a somewhat higher noise floor, but I have never tried it myself. I find the noise floor to be very quiet (non-existent to my ears)and sound quality to be very good on my 96kHz version.
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That burl veneered K-402. 😲
Beautiful!
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17 hours ago, rickmcinnis said:
The reticulated foam surround on the K402 is simply a three inches sheet of foam with a hole cut out that is smaller than the mouth - about six inches in width and height, I see no effect on the woofers response and and a slight smoothing of the compression driver. One hears much more than one sees with this addition. II cannot remember the outside dimensions of the sheet. I will measure it.
Same with the scrim of long fiber wool in front of the Celestion. A slight loss at 20 kHz but an actual rise in response around 8 kHz. Using two sided tape to hold it close to the front of the Celestion. It is immediately noticeable as a reduction in something! Far more relaxing. I tried it both ways over and over again and it is always an improvement when in place. Looks funny but then how can one be a serious audiophile kook without that!
I will take some photos.
Another thing I have found to be useful - a 2 x 4 foot sheet of rock wool on top of each speaker - not night and day but a refinement.
Sounds like you are getting some really killer results. Congratulations!
I would love to see some photos of what you are doing with the foam, fiber wool and rock wool. Post some pics when you can.
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18 hours ago, Edgar said:
It should also be noted that a necessary part of linear-phase filtering is time delay. This is not a problem if only listening to music, but if the audio has to be synchronized with video then it very quickly becomes a problem. A 30 Hz video frame spans 1470 samples at 44100 Hz, so any linear-phase filter with more than 2940 taps is automatically at least a full frame out of sync. Add to that the buffering required by transform-domain processing, and the latency can easily exceed several video frames.
Thanks for your insight into linear phase filters, it is a fascinating subject. Could this problem be solved by also delaying the video signal? It wouldn't work for video games, obviously, but it should work for movies/video, right?
What hardware are people using to incorporate FIR filters into their hi-fi system?
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19 hours ago, chn68b said:
Thanks, I'm now listening to Herbie Hancock's "Head Hunters", the evening sun is shining through the window and all is good.
Great album!
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Ok, now a little data to help us all visualize what we are hearing. Here are two spectrogram plots. The first one, dated today, is my LS bass bins, with Eminence N314X drivers on ZXPC 17x11, crossed at 700hz. The second plot is my previous setup, with was the LS bins with B&C De750TNs on ZXPC horn, crossed at 400hz. The difference in high frequency ringing seems to tell the tale.
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I used this exact Musical Paradise amp for years to power my La Scalas. Sounded great to me. Plenty of power for Klipsch speakers.
This amp responds well to tube rolling as well. The sound changes more with tube swaps than most amps do. I really liked Gold Lion KT-66s in mine.
Also, the comment about clipping damaging your speakers mostly pertains to SS amplifiers, not tubes. SS amps clip hard, producing a very harsh sounding "clip" or "pop" sound, This sends all kinds of high frequency energy into your speakers, which can blow tweeters. Tube amps tend to clip much more softly, rolling off the top of the waveform instead of cutting it off sharply. They are much less likely to damage speakers, even if over-driven. So you have nothing to worry about, even if you want to try to rock out with 6 watts.
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I just bought a pair of these from LTusler. Thanks again! Got them hooked up on Friday and spent the better part of the weekend dialing in the DSP. I am using them with ZXPC 11x17 horns with Eminence 1.4-2" adapters.
My findings line up closely with what Dave A and jwgorman have found. Initially, I tried to cross it at 400hz, like I had been doing previously with my B&C De750TN, but this did not sound good. The highs were clearly much more refined, but there was a crunchiness to the mid-range that did not sound good at all. I raised the crossover to 700hz, which is about as high as my LS bass bins will allow, and they sound much happier. I suspect that they would sound even better at 1000hz, but my current setup cant get there. I bought these drivers in anticipation of a future project that will allow a higher crossover point, so I look forward to trying that later in the year. For now, 700hz sounds pretty good.
Overall impressions are excellent. I had pretty good sound before with the B&C drivers, but the Eminence immediately stood out as having much, MUCH better high frequency sound. The B&C, with their titanium diaphragms, always sounded hashy up top. A crash cymbal would be there, but it would sound like radio static more than the real thing. The Eminence drivers are much clearer and actually sound like cymbals. I have never heard beryllium drivers before, but this is sounds like how I imagine Be drivers do. Very clean, natural decay, lots of detail, no harshness. Perhaps I am still in the honeymoon period with these guys, but I am liking it, A LOT!
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Sounds like you are off to a good start. You have a large-ish room with high ceilings, which is good. You have some pretty good gear to start out with. My recommendation is that you look into some room treatment. My guess is that your garage is pretty echo-y and reflective. Some absorption and diffusion will probably make the gear you already have sound a LOT better. You can accomplish this for just a few hundred dollars for everything. A few thick absorber panels and some strategically-placed diffusers will definitely bring a smile to your face.
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Beautiful speaker! Thank you for sharing. Where are you located?
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In general, I'd say I agree with you. There is precious little difference in sound between well designed amplifiers. And, for the most part, changing amps or rolling tubes isn't going to have nearly as dramatic of an effect as changing speakers, room treatment, or phono stylus. Those truly are the low-hanging fruit of audio.
However, despite my desire to have everything be measurable and testable via the scientific method, I am forced to admit that there is a bit of art to audio reproduction as well. There does seem to be some difference to be made in the intangible and immeasurable, though in my experience it is subtle. I do think that amplifiers and even (gasp!) cables can make some difference. I think most people put far too much focus on these things, but I do think that on a very subtle level, there is something to it. Once you have your room, speakers and sources 100% dialed, you can make very small improvements with things like amplifiers, CD players, etc. However, for most people, this is like washing your car and thinking it will go faster due to less weight and drag. More placebo than anything.
That said, I do use tubes in my system (SS as well). Could I tell if you switched the tube amps out for SS? Maybe, I don't know for sure. They light up nice and make me happy, so I'm not complaining, haha.
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Since some seem to take issue with my statement about LaScala bass, let me clarify.
The La Scalas are down by about 10dB at 40hz and by about 15dB at 30hz, which is where the lowest fundamental is for a bass guitar. In my opinion, that is not satisfactory bass for enjoying rock and roll; perhaps its fine for Jazz. Sure, you can EQ it up, but if your plan involves adding 15dB of EQ boost to get your bottom end, I'd urge you to reconsider. You'll suffer lots of compression and IMD as a result. Far from ideal.
I love my LaScalas, but I'd follow the recommendation of many people on this forum over the last 20 years or so.... use them with a sub for maximum enjoyment.
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6 hours ago, Quiet_Hollow said:
Good evening Tarheel. I made a video a long while back (that keeps getting blocked then released due to copyright) that a/b'd some basic EQ settings to defend against this exact statement. While I totally agree with and highly recommend the option to employ a sub, to say basically zero output below 60 Hz, well folks can take a listen here:
Certainly you can EQ some output below 60hz, but in stock form, it ain't there.
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I will always recommend La Scalas with enthusiasm. They are truly one of the greatest speakers out there. Just be aware of their bass response. As has been documented many times on this forum, they roll off below 100hz, and have basically zero output below about 60hz. If you love rock and roll, you will want a subwoofer to go with them. Otherwise, your KLF30s will out perform them in the bass department.
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At the risk of repeating what others have already said, I find the BFM THT to be a perfect match to LaScala bass bins. I built a ~30" wide version. It hits 24hz in my room and can easily extend up to 80hz or higher, though I find better sound by EQing the LS bass bins flat down to about 50hz and letting the sub take over from there. The bass is deep, goes as loud as you want it to, and is CLEAN! No wooly or boomy bass at all. And when I say loud, I mean LOUD. You can literally shake pictures off the walls. Not kidding at all.
The only sub I had in this system beforehand was a cheap bass-reflex 12"er that added more boominess than anything. The THT just sounds like you have a really big set of LS bass bins. Blends perfectly. The only downside I can think of is that they are HUGE and HEAVY, but that is true for any horn sub. I would love to have a second one, not for extra SPL but for smoothing the in-room response a bit. I would have a hard time finding space for a second one though. Maybe some day....
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I listen to at least a little bit of just about everything. I have tons of classical vinyl, though I don't listen to it all that often (they are just sooo cheap at used record shops). I listen to everything from old-school American Blues, Jazz, Gospel, Bluegrass, Old-Time, Big-bands, Ballet, Opera, classic Country, Hip Hop, Rap, Techno, Electronica.... you name it. Catch me in the right mood and you may hear anything from Tchaikovsky to Wu-Tang Clan.
My favorite, however, and the bulk of my collection is centered around classic Rock and Roll and all of the sub-genres that orbit it (British Blues, Prog Rock, New Wave, Jam Bands, Pop). I'd have to say my favorite group of all time is Pink Floyd, which I feel is certainly a part of why I love Hi Fi so much. You can't be a PF fan and not want to hear it at its very best. I think they are one of the relatively few rock bands whose recordings sound REALLY good on a quality Hi Fi setup. Getting a better "Dark Side of the Moon" experience has definitely been the driver of many of my audiophile pursuits, haha.
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This looks great! I have definitely thought of doing exactly this myself. Like you, I have been intrigued by the K-402 MEH concept, and like you, I have seen the Australian K-402 clone and contemplated doing the same thing. I will probably attempt something like this in the near future. I'd love to take a look at any sketchup or STL files that you would be willing to share.
Would also love to hear your impressions once you get them up and running!
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They are too rich for my blood, but man, those Line Magnetic amps sure are cool. The big tubes are impressive!
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3 hours ago, Bjorn said:
No. I haven't tested TAD drivers. Today I'm using Radian 951BePB (1.4") exit with a horn that I got developed together with Don Keele. Picture below and the best horn I've heard by far.
But I know some who have tested Radian Be (950 I think), different JBL drivers with Truextent Be (i.e. 2451) and different TAD drivers and have also measured them. If I remember correctly they were basically very close and perhaps not possible to distinguish audibly after applying EQ, apart from TAD 4003 which the person found to be slightly better than JBL 2451 Be (I don't think he tested Radian 951BepB). TAD 4003 is also the driver that measures overall best and seems to both go a bit lower in frequency and has more level/SPL in the highs. Unfortunately it's an exceptional expensive driver (not sold new anymore) and I assume we're talking about a minor improvement after equalization. The horn is certainly way more important, which the person who has tested these drivers also agrees to.
Thanks for the response! Sounds like any of the Be drivers are a good choice.
I have seen that Keele horn referenced a few times on the 'net. Any more information you can share about it? Are they commercially available?
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On 3/8/2021 at 12:55 PM, Bjorn said:
I tested the AXi2050 on K-402 in 2019 and did a direct comparison to Radian 950BePB. Back and forth for several days both in mono for quick comparisons and listening in stereo, though swapping for stereo takes time when you only have one pair of speakers.
My experience was quite different from Chris'. The Radian with Be sounded considerably clearer and more open in both the upper midrange and tweeter. Distortion measurements confirmed this. Crossover lower was nice though and mye experience her was also different. While it didn't experience this as night and day, it was still more than a subtle improvement in a coherent sound stage and vocal presentation. But overall, the Axi2050 sounded dull in the upper frequencies making it boring to listen to compared to Radian.
But I'm not surprised Klipsch is choosing such a driver for a commercial speaker and that solved issues with the bass bin they use.
Slightly off-topic, but you are one of the few I have seen to have tested the Radian 950BePB. Have you also tested or heard TAD beryllium drivers? Can you compare the two?
I have always been curious about the Radian, as they are available new for somewhat less than the TAD drivers are used. They seem like they could be a good alternative if they perform similarly. Very hard to find any information from those who have experience with both. Thanks.
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There are a variety of ways to accomplish what you are looking to do. I would suggest using a speaker switch box for your front two speakers. On one side of the box, you'd have your existent HT system. On the other side, you could have an integrated tube amp with your CD player and Turntable connected. That way, you are not dependent on your receiver to act as a pre-amp, as you would if you used pre-outs. You get a "pure" tube system for music that way.
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2" Horn drivers B&C DE750TN vs. BMS 4592-mid
in 2-Channel Home Audio
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I have no experience with the BMS, but I used a pair of B&C DE750TNs on some ZXPC horns for the past couple of years in a two-way configuration. Just recently switched to some Eminence drivers for better high end. The B&C drivers worked great from 400hz up. They are very robust and had no problem with the 400hz crossover point. Sounded great in the mids, but the Ti diaphragm is not the cleanest up high. If you are using them in a 3-way configuration, the highs would not be an issue.