Bofkont

Ages since my last post on time-alignment on this forum. Since than I happily played with MiniDSP DIRAC to do some of it rather nice. Now the tri-amp bug got me. Overhere in the Netherlands we make HYPEX FA123 plateamps with DAC/DSP/NCore amps: https://www.hypex.nl/product/fusionamp-fa123/154. Sounds like a great way to do this at a very affordable price around $400 a piece. Remember NCore amps are on par with Benchmark and Purify. Haven't seen it covered in this forum but it would be interesting to hear your opinions.

I have been very happy with my FirstWatt F3 amp. It delivers such a realistic image with ease and poise. It replaced a very good 3k€ tube amp, definately. Not knowing what could be better I don't miss anything. Very mindfull.

The quest went on. Past year have brought a MiniDSP with DIRAC Life software to replace my DIY "time aligner" and a new DAC: CHORD Hugo that also doubles as a more than excellent HP amp. Both made me very happy but that is of lesser interest. Let me show you a few graphs to proof my point. They reflect on the room measurements that one needs to do to. First a before and target frequency response Now it looks more like the ideal curve from B&K Through some IT magic also the impulse curve was improved: Music is very crisp and detailed. Spot on purcussive sounds with a lot of energy. Every horn in a smaller room benefits from this I would reckon. Anyway just to let you know and maybe provoke some interest.

Indeed these are the ones with DIRAC Live incorporated. It's a variation on a theme: AA is in the analog part of your chain, DD in the digital domain or DA as a complete converter/preamp. I have not yet heard them but like the theory and from experience know that they make good boards without anything audible added like noise. The little board with D in/out on the miniDSP i.e. works nice and sounds good. Needless to say I have no connection, but simply like their products and a Khorn in a small(er) room needs stuff like this. Have a great weekend, Dirk

It has been a while since I last chimed in but this is a subject I think is really very relevant for a Klipschorn owner. Other than i.e. a KEF107 these reproducers have built in time alighment flaws. Luckily these don't show up in big rooms with KH's set apart wide, where you merely hear reflections and less direct sound. On the other hand in a small room, listening from a short distance and powered by a very fast amp without any distortion (like the F3) one hears the slap on a drum or the stick on the brim not as one sound but composed out of two or three seperate sounds. Also staccato singing is perceived like that. But your brains adapt to it and you get used. BUT once you fix it the difference is very obvious. I did so by means of a MiniDSP and Y-ing together hi and lo output of the pre-amp. A solution for the books one of the forum members kindly called it. And also by setting the HF horn right to the back. This brings me to a new angle on the discussion: DIRAC is a DSP that corrects room response but also time-aligns speakers upto 10 msec. I really like that idea and was wondering if any member has any experience with this solution. It seems so perfect for our beloved Khorns. MiniDSP offers a hardware solution with built in DIRAC Live. But one could also use the music server (PC or Mac).

Just an update. As others have experienced, for me too a window has opened up. Last Sunday I took the beast apart and took the K77F tweeters out of the top and put them over the mid drivers. Top in front is nicely covered with foam, curtain behind it. Solid silver LSwire in Teflon is hardly visible. I set them up vertically because EV350's were recommended like that. The effect is quite stunning. Immediately you notice the coherence of drums, vibraphone, cymbals and the like. Comparing a mono recording on the tweaked vs standard KH this effect is clearly heared. Thriving on this little success I also tweaked the other tweeter and enjoyed some good stereo sound the better part of the afternoon and getting used to a few dB more highs. A breath of fresh air! Now voices are clearer too (nil tubiness anymore), they also have a percussive nature I was not aware of, like the rolling RRRR's of Cecilia Bartolia. That is a real percussive sound now! You hear separate tones from a piano more clearly. It is a very gratifying modification. Turning back the delay in the miniDSP to the recommended 4.44 mS the picture sort of shifted forwards, so I settled for 6.5 mS somewhere in the middle knowing it is very easy to further adjust from the PC.

Thanks you're too kind! 7.5 mS is the max. amount of delay you get in the 2x4 unit, with an advanced X-over software package. I have seen figures from 6.0 to 7.5 ms as measurements of delay in the bass bins, so I thought it was not not that critical. And I liked what I heard, so I didn't mess with it anymore. You guys made me aware of the significance of this number, so I'll look into it. In some of the configurations a miniDSP takes it time to do the arithmatics, but because all signals are run through in my setup it this doesn't create a problem. It would if you'd do tri-amping with the bassbin driven by an unprocessed signal and the mid/highs through the miniDSP. Well not really a problem because you want some delay there []. The next thing to do is to mount the K77F's on the back of the cabinet and mount some acoustic absorbtion like Basotec around it. Shame, the Anni's look nice as they are. Anybody set them up vertical like their twin EV 350? No need for a baffle probably; better to mount it free I guess? Best Dirk

Thanks for your interest. Here is a PDF with some pictures and explanatory notes. I hope this helps clarify. Summary: the analogue input from relay board (LiteAudio, DIYClub) is fed to a toggle switch and than connected to either B1 preamp or miniDSP input. I use mostly Belden 8412 mic cable because it has been around as long as the Klipschorns. It is soldered directly to the little board. No plugs used. The outputs of the miniDSP are connected with 2 x 1” iron nails. Belden cable is again soldered directly to board outputs and connected to Channel 2 of the B1 preamp. It is easy to switch between CH1 and 2 and in effect bypass the miniDSP. For experiments (bi-amping etc.) the outputs can be easily used. Best regards, Dirk miniDSP and B1 experiment.pdf

Thanks for giving my experiment some of your thoughts and time. The reason summing up the signals does seem to work is probably because it is done after the Xover which is set at a very steep 48dB BW. So for the most you'r summing up a 0 V signal, which is inherently safe to do without resistors []. Just a bend cut iron nail in the original outputs. No need to say the nail was carefully selected for its audio quality and was bend at full moon, a blue moon actually. My presumption was that around 450Hz you'd see some phase problems but that you suffer from that anyway given the difference in accoustical path between the bass bin and MF horn. Another thought was that keeping the original (split) X-over from the Anni KHorns in place would straighten some of the equalisation and phase problems that seems innate in the design. First I tried bi-amping with the Cayin 300B I had sitting around. Highly modded, really nice amp, but not as good as the F3 I'm afraid. So after that I decided to give it a try and shortcircuit the outputs. Still very happy with the simplicity of the solution. BTW loosing 3 dB in the miniDSP appears to be a design choice. it has nothing do do with summing the (0V!) signals. Best regards Dirk

It's been three years since I got a pair of 60th Anni KHorns in my basement. It has worked out well for me, thanks to info from this forum. Especially the FAQ Corner-Horn Imaging has been very helpfull (tnx CASK05!). Made me switch from a nice 300B SET amp to a FirstWatt F3 and tweak my room accoustics a bit further. Little things like putting the beast on spikes help, "sealing" the cabinet to the walls with isolation tubes helps etc. etc. And now the miniDSP has entered. It is positioned between the input switch board and the Nelson Pass B1 preamp in such a way that it can be bypassed. So we can ABX. It is setup straight forward with crossover at 450Hz, 48 dB slopes where the High Pass signal is delayed 7.5 mS. Both High and Low pass signals are kinda shortcircuited and the sum signal is fed to the B1 preamp and stereo F3 power amp; so no bi-amping needed! It looses some 3dB but imaging has really improved. Female voices are overall nicer to listen to, instrument are behind the speakers, the stage is bigger and a piano is smaller so it can be pointed at. Somehow there is also more room information and the illusion of height is there. Thought you guys might want to know or have a good laugh...... [H]

Looks great! Nice to see a fellow countryman also enjoying the Klipsch Heritage. Veel plezier ermee! [<)]

hello islander, i just picked up on this 5 year old trail and wondered about the results you heard using the foam. was it any good? cheers []

thanks ye all for your quick responses. it saves me some awkward moments.... [:$]

dear friends, After tweaking my basement, SET amp and 60th Aniv KHorns I think I'm in audio Nirwana! Can concentrate on the music now. I have a friend who collected superior audio equipment over the years and would let me have some. Like a Thorens belt/idler PU with 12"SME/Denon! That was real luck. Now there is talk about a JBL amp, probably the SA600. Not much info on the net except that it is a highly collectable amp. I find the horns very sensitive to amps so my question would be is it worth auditioning on my KHorns or can I just pass? best regards Dirk