Klipschguy

Hi Jim, You'll have to let your own ears decide. I think the K-horns are the best sounding Klipsch speakers I have heard - when properly set up (very important). However, I have no place for K-horns in my listening room, so I got the Cornwalls, which in my humble opinion are a beautiful compromise to the mighty Klipschorns. I had the choice of La Scalas or the Cornwalls, where price was absolutely not an issue, and I chose the Cornwalls because I think they sound better - much more balanced and no need for a sub. (By the way, I have hundreds of hours listening experience with the La Scalas in several different listening rooms with good amplification.) I have never regretted my decision to buy the Cornwalls, and if I did, I'd simply go get a pair of the La Scalas or Belles, I've had a number of opportunities to do so. Once again, let your own ears decide - not our own biased opinions which can only serve as a guide as to what OUR ears tell us. Klipschguy

Pkeller, I saw that too. I also noticed the squawker and tweeter were hooked up to taps 3 and 4, respectively (Heresys are 2 and 3, respectively, from the factory). They both have the same staggered configuration. Unlike the Heresy, the Cornwall has two components which offset the efficient highs of the K77 tweeter, relative to the midrange: 1) the larger, more efficient squawker horn lens (compared to the Heresys' lens), 2) the additional choke in the tweeter circuit - which was mentioned in your last post. My Heresy modification of switching tap 2 to tap 3 in the negative leg of the tweeter circuit does a pretty admirable job (by my ears) of balancing out the tweeter and the squawker levels. But by looking at the Cornwall circuit, there may be another way to match the tweeter level - and that would be the addition of an appropriate choke in the tweeter leg of Heresy crossover while likely leaving the taps in their stock positions. My only complaint (minor) of an additinal choke in lieu of the tap switching modification, is there would be one more filter in the circuit, which, as you know need to be kept to a minimum in the interest of a more pure sound. But it really depends on which one sounds better - which is the ultimate test and the right thing to do. The choke would indeed attenuate the highs, but I don't know exactly how I would customize a Heresy network to make it function more like the Cornwall network - which in my opinion works quite well. If you feel so inclined, investigate and try out a suitable choke value in the tweeter leg for the Heresy - I would definitely be open to trying it out and comparing it to my own modification to search for the best sound. Again, I really do think a stock Heresy needs some attenation of the tweeter - the Cornwall circuit diagram also seems to suggest this and seems to provide an avenue of investigation. Like everybody else here, I just want the best sound from my speakers and enjoy sharing my findings/opinions with other Klipsch fans. Great topic. Please keep us informed. Klipschguy P.S. I think the K-horn has a choke in its tweeter circuit too.

Congrats Joe on your Cornwalls. Man I Really love my 1977 pair. Mine are in the corners and toed in on the short wall of a 20 x 32 foot room with vaulted ceiling and MAN do they sound good. I still get excited when I listen to these babies and I've had them for 10 years. Great bass, even in the huge room. Wife and kids were gone the other day, so I decided to see how loud my Cornwalls would play (without distortion, of course), since it had been a long time since a real crank session. Anyway, I put on some high impact new age rock music, you know the kind with super deep bass drums and bass guitar with plenty of overdrive in the lead and rythym amps. HOLY SMOKES those things will absolutely crank - I couln't even approach speakers within about five feet. The walls and floor were shaking. The sound was clean, clear, no audible distortion nor dynamic compression. The amp was just cruising along and not clipping. Anyway, how big is your room? Do you have them corner loaded (definitely will add visceral impact to your Cornwalls)? I looked up the pair you bought on Ebay and they look sweet. What were you listening to before the Cornwalls? Again, welcome to the club. Klipschguy

BobG (our fearless leader), If indeed the Heritage speakers are MADE TO ORDER, why not include the Cornwall in the line up!? You have the parts (or after reading this post you soon should). The squawker compression driver, the tweeter, and woofer used in the K-horns, LaScalas, and Belles should do nicely (just like was done in the Cornwall I's with the K77, K55-V, and K33-. Then it's just a matter of a few crossover parts and a pair of plywood cabinets which should be easy to build, especially compared the K-horns. What do you (and other Klipsch fans) think? Klipschguy

Impedance does vary with the postion of the wiper. Volume controls are basically variable resisters where the resistance varies with the position of the wiper. There are basically two types of volume controls. 1) linear taper where the resistence varies in a 1 to 1 linear relationship to the wiper position i.e. 1/4 volume = 1/4 resistance, 1/2 volume = 1/2 resistance, or some other linear type relationship. 2) the other type is an "audio taper" where the resistence is logarithmic relative to the postion of the volume control. If volume verses resistence where plotted on a graph for the linear type, the line would be a straight slope, whereas the log taper (audio) would be a curved slope. Audio taper pots are usually used in audio equipment. Also, I am not an expert in this area, so any electrical engineers out there please feel free to clarify or correct any of the above information. One other thing, I think in some tube equipment the volume control varies the voltage of the grid bias to control the flow of electrons like a valve to the output tubes, but I'm getting out of my league here. Klipschguy

Hi Shaggy, A good home theater starter system would be four Klipschorns, two in the front and two in the rear, with a Belle Klipsch as a front center channel. For amplification, look into Lexicon separates. If your room is fairly large, you may want to add a Bag End subwoofer. Just kidding, honestly, you should try to get as good equipment you can afford right off the bat. It is amazing how long we tend to hang on to those early purchases with the thought "Oh I'll get something better soon." Also, if I were going to "scimp" on something, it would least likely be the speakers. Anyway Klipsch is a good place to start. Doug is right when he asks for more info into what kind of system your looking for. Klipschguy

After a pretty thorough search for a stereo receiver to drive my Cornwalls, I chose the Yamaha RX-596 Natural Sound Receiver. I must say the sound and performance of this receiver has exceeded my expectations (which rarely happens to me). The bass and clarity are great. Do a search on "Yam vs Denon" to see additional comments on this unit. Let your ears be the judge. Klipschguy

Admittedly, the bass is less than thunderous with the Heresys. A couple things you can try. 1) Get a sub which should give you all the bass you want, but a seamless transition can be problematic. 2) Place the speakers low and in the corners, toed in. The apparent volume of the bass will be increased - the difference will not be like a top of the line SVS sub, but it may give you a satisfying result, especially with music. Klipsch recommends corner placement for optimal sound. Keep us posted. Klipschguy

Hello Joe, The Serial # you gave would be for 1981 Cornwalls. Also CBR means "Cornwall, Birch, Raw finish" (also CWO means Cornwall, Walnut veneer, Oil finish). Cornwalls on Ebay usually go from about a low of $550 to a high of about $1200. Most pairs go for around $700 to $800. One of the big things when bidding on a pair is to try and find them within a reasonable driving distance so you don't have to worry about expensive shipping and potential damage. Amazingly, my brother bought a pair and fit them into his Honda - but he had to take the seats out (not the driver's seat, obviously). Anyway, the Cornwalls are a super speaker that are built to last a lifetime - I think you would be quite happy with a pair. Happy hunting. Klipschguy

Hello Solly, Welcome to the Klipsch bulletin board. Again, I have the same reaction. Interestingly, my Dad (now Grandad, too) was over last night and I asked him to listen to the modified Heresys. My Dad introduced me to audio over 30 years ago and has been into it himself since the late 50's - tons of knowledge about speakers, tubes, power supplies, et cetera. He has also owned and listened to many Klipsch speakers since the early 60's (currently owns Cornwall and Chorus). Anyway, about 10 seconds into the first CD, he said "Oh yeah, I can hear it already" (said with a positive overtone). After a couple of songs he said "It's hard to believe speakers that size can sound SO GOOD." Go Heresys! Klipschguy

Hey Mike, I answered your last post but both question and reply seemed to have disappeared. Anyway your speakers are 1976, and are basically the same as my 1980 Heresys, except yours have the alnico K77 tweeter and mine have the K77-M with the ceramic magnet. By the way HWO stands for "Heresy, Walnut, Oil finish. Klipschguy

Hello Grant, Congatualations! Heresys are great speakers and some people like the way they sound, just the way they are. However, my 1980 pair (has a "U" in the serial number) were just too bright, especially compared to my Cornwalls. If you are happy with the sound, great! If you think they're too bright, read the thread in the updating older speakers section under "Bright Heresys? Dramatic fix, For Free." I made this modification to mine (very easy and 100% reversible) and I cannot emphasize how much better my Heresys sound - a more balanced sound like the Cornwalls and other large Klipsch speakers. Anyway, if you don't like it, you can change it back to the way it was in few minutes and proceed with the other stuff like P-traps, caps, damping, et cetera. Keep us posted. Klipschguy

Hello Mike, I had the same reaction. I cannot belive how much better my Heresy's sound now. I used to almost never listen to them and defered to my Cornwalls. Now, I seek them out (they're playing right now - lovely). I actually think they sound a little better than my Cornwalls with piano music - really quite amazing. They sound way better lound AND quiet - which a real test of a modification. Klipschguy

...Sweet

Yes, the K55-V has an alnico magnet. As for your K33-B woofer I'm not really sure. Anyway, your Cornwalls you have a superb compliment of drivers. Also those solid baltic birch plywood cabinets (with walnut veneer on yours?) are first rate. Note: baltic birch plywood is a superior hard wood, nine-ply plywood which doesn't have any voids - outstanding quality, quite expensive. Those Cornwalls you bought are built to last a lifetime. Enjoy. Klipschguy

Highfidelity, Your Cornwalls were made in 1975, not 1974. Please forgive the previous misinformation. Also, your tweeters are alnico, if their originals. Klipschguy

Boa12, Thanks for the info. Those missing letters were causing me a little confusion. Klipschguy

I agree, that's why I said "let your ears be the judge." Capturing a performance on a CD that faithfully delivers the impact of the original performance is tough and requires some artful license. (Man, there's nothing like a great recording.) When recording and reproducing music, we need to eliminate as many varibles which impede the faithful reproduction as possible. However, I do admit it's impossible. Anyway we're not in disagreement, I'm just offering a little different perspective. A little "warmth" (non-linear distortion) is something I do enjoy adding to my music with a good old tube amp - but I do recognize the fact. Let your ears be the judge. Klipschguy

Remember the years of tube radio? The various companies adverised their signiture sounds like: "that lovely Philco sound" or "beautiful Zenith sound." Then came Hi Fidelity. Sounds were supposed to be as realistic or true to the recording as possible. People used to test their systems with recordings of jingling car keys, a car door slamming, or other everyday noises to evaluate "how true to the original." Enter the Golden Age of Hi-Fi. If tubes impart a warm sound that is pleasing to the ear, then the warm sound needs to be added to the RECORDING, not to the REPRODUCTION, where it is then to be classified as distortion, non-fidelity, "lovely Philco sound," whatever. Do not get me wrong, I own some tube equipment and do appreciate tubes, a lot. But I would rather have the "tube sound" in the recording, and then reproduce the warm sound with a highly accurate amplifier - be it solid state or tube. Remember the sorry CD recordings back in the 80's with their harsh high end? The answer was not some tube or SS amplifier for the "recordings of the day", the answer was a better recording - which did happen (where would that leave a soft sounding amplifier with new, good recordings?) Anyway, my point is high fidelity means "true to the original." Ergo, a crappy, bright recording should sound like, well, a crappy bright recording. A lovely, warm recording should sound like a lovely, warm recording without adding or subtracting warmth. Anyway, just my 2 cents. Let your own ears be the judge. Klipschguy

Alex, The Cornwalls are great speakers. I own a pair of 1977 Cornwalls which have an "R" in the serial #. Since the alphabetic designation is sequential, I thought your Cornwalls were 1975, heck who knows, maybe they didn't use a "Q". My Heresys have a "U" serial # and I am positve they are 1980. Anyway, I am still amazed by the sound of my Cornwalls, and I've had a lot of experience with the bigger Klipsch such as the K-horn and the La Scala, which believe me, do not blow away the Cornwalls (except in their ability to absolutely CRANK). The Cornwalls have a unique sound which has worn very well with me over time, and have never given me "listener fatigue" - gosh the sound is just lovely, almost mellow. My only recommendation is to place these babies into the corners of your room if you have not already done so. Believe it or not, Klipsch recommends you place these speakers in the corners on the long wall of a rectangular room (mine are on the shorter wall, but I'm doing the best I can). Corner loading will greatly improve your bass and sound stage. Anyway, enjoy your vintage alnico Cornwalls, they will never let you down. Klipschguy

...Sweet

Hello Kyle, While I have only limited listening experience with the Forte's (what I remember is good), I do remember the Julian Hirsh article in Stereo Review back in the early to mid 80's that stated "the Forte's have the lowest bass distortion we have ever measured in a loud speaker." That little fact is still burned into my brain after almost 20 years. Klipschguy .

Thanks for your thoughts Pkeller, I'm not sure why my tweeters are bright either. But, I must say the mid sounds quite good, maybe even a little subdued (for a horn), when you put your ear by the squawker. So I really think is is the tweeter. I may try a P-trap, hook the tweeter back to tap #3 and check out the difference. I just want to be careful to not put too many filters in the circuit which, as you know, can also degrade the sound. That's one of the reasons I like the tap mod, because you are only attenuating the tweeter a little bit more by using the original design components, and this helps minimize other unwanted ramifications which may steer a speaker towards a "non-Klipsch sound" - which would be a real heresy. You know it may be the alnico vs. ceramic issue. Klipsch did say in a memo that they incresed the output at 12KHz when redesigning the tweeter. Maybe it's a little more efficient too? Anyway, I guess you could say that in all these posts I am talking specifically about the "Heresy I's with the K22-E, K55-V, K77-M and E-type network." Note: my friend has a pair of 1980 Cornwalls with the K77-M, and the highs, to me, sound pretty much the same and balanced as my alnico Cornwalls - this tends to refute the alnico/ceramic theory (although maybe the crossovers compensate for the newer tweeter - like using "tap 2 in lieu of tap 3 - just kidding). Anyway, whatever the case, I am listening to my Heresys now and they sound balanced and lovely. Also, don't get me wrong, my Heresys sounded good before, certainly listenable, just too bright. Maybe somebody out there could put their ear next to their Heresy tweeter and squawker, alternately, and let me know if the tweeter is perceptably louder than the squawker. Or is it about the same? Thanks again for all your input. Klipschguy

Hello Klipsch fans. I do sincerely appreciate all who have contibuted to this thread - it's been a good exchange. Anyway, concerning the brightness of the Heresys. I really do not think they are "balanced" BY DESIGN - that's kind of my point and why I am a little baffled by the design - make no mistake, Klewless, I do certainly agree with your premise about speaker designs and "fixing the room" - been there done that, willing to do it again. However, as stated earlier, the tweeers in my Herseys, before the modification, were TWICE as loud as the squawker when putting my ear alternately from driver to driver (on any decent recording, and this fact is independent of the room acoustics). Also, they sounded too bright in the same room with with my lovely sounding Cornwalls - so I really don't think it's a room problem. With my Cornwalls, and friends La Scalas and K-horns, the tweeter and squawkers both play about the same level, the squawker may even be a little louder - try it for yourself, you'll say "dang he's right!" (Also I have access to three different pairs of Cornwalls and they all sound just like mine). With my mod, the tweeter now plays about the same level as the squawker and sounds a heck of a lot better, loud or quiet. I am a devoted PWK fan, and really believe in his designs, but I know a brightly voiced speaker when I hear one. By doing a Heresy search on this BB, a trend can clearly be seen that there is a problem with the high frequency balance in these speakers (P-traps, crossover upgrades, horn damping, felt around the mouth of the horns, et cetera). One will rarely see threads about too bright Cornwalls, La Scalas, or K-horns. Most people want to keep every Heritage Klipsch bone stock, except for the Heresys - including myself. If you have the means to try it, put your ear by the tweeters and squawkers in various Heritage Klipsch speakers - you'll see what I mean. Then try tap 2 instead of tap 3 with your Heresys, you'll be amazed how much more they sound like their big brothers. If you don't like it, it's 100% reversible, free, and only takes about 10 minutes per speaker - including taking the back off. Anyway, Pkeller has experimented with some other crossover modifications which sound impressive and are worth checking out. But the point is still the same - there is some high frequency imbalance in the Heresys. Thanks again, Klipschguy

Hello again Pkeller, I've tried various amplification with my Herseys, but nothing truely "high end." For a while I used a piece of Carver equipment with a high voltage magnetic field amplifier. The Carver had a lacking, tinny sound with no bass - even my wife could hear it. Mediocre with Cornwalls, unaccepable with the Heresys - way to bright. (No offense to Carver fans out there, it could be the electrolytics in the solid state amp were beginning to leak a little DC voltage after 15 years of use.) Next I used a Fisher 500c tube receiver that I rebuilt (you know, high quality film and foil bypass caps, bulletproof the grid bias circuit, etc). Good results with this push-pull Williamson type amplifier. Smooth sound, with slightly rolled off highs which were indeed more compatible with the Heresys' proclivity towards bright sound (lends to your said theory about tube amps). Bass decent, for Heresys. Anyway, I really wanted a remote (technolgy knocking at my door) which was making me tired of the Fisher 500c (now being used with some big, vintage Bozaks - sweet). On to my latest aquisition: the Yamaha Natural Sound RX-596 Stereo receiver (also hooked up to my Cornwalls). Lovely, smooth sound much like the old Fisher Tubes, but with deeper bass and better woofer control (the 240+ damping factor helps control those big 15" Cornwall woofer cones). Amp also has a high current design: 80 wpc into 8 Ohms/ 200 wpc into 2 ohms. Nice detail, and a little cleaner on the highs than the Fisher, especially with the "CD Direct" engaged, which employs a dedicated CD amplifier and bypasses the tone controls, loudness, balance, and selector switch. Way better than the Carver, albeit I realize it's still not a MacIntosh stack. Still the same thing though - SMOOTH and clean on the Cornwalls, BRIGHT and clean on the Heresys (pre-modification). Just listening to my Heresys again late this afternoon - they really sound great, I can't believe I was going to get rid of them. One last thing. I originally attributed the excessive brightness of my Heresys to the K77-M ceramic magnet tweeter. My Cornwalls have the round magnet Alnicos and sound smooth, so I figured that the K77-M was junk and Klipsch had screwed up the tweeter on the redesign - I was pretty mad. Anyway, with the tweeters turned down a notch, they sound almost exactly like the Alnicos. The K77-M IS a good tweeter. I've been thinking about building a tube amp one of these days, we'll see how that one does. Klipschguy