Delicious2
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Posts posted by Delicious2
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A question on integration of the MEH into your system as a center Chris. How do you run 2 channel playback through your Onkyo pre/pro? Direct with no center? Some kind of synthesized center like "3 channel stereo"? Do you find yourself processing 2 channel recordings into surrounds and sub as well? I don't quite have the balls to cut one of my K402s yet but I'll be experimenting with one as a center on a Cornwall bass bin driven by a 4592ND this weekend - so just wondering how you get the benefit with 2 channel recordings.
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Thanks for sharing your trouble and release Brenda! Music is indeed a mainline to our emotions! Your sharing prompted me to search the web for music healing and I found this related story of healing music after surgery.
https://www.classicalmpr.org/story/2014/10/06/classical-music-healing
I think I'll start a list of healing , uplifting, music for emotional release. I've had healing tears like you described in the past when singing along.
There's something about that Mr. Sandman tune that's very nostalgic for me and I suspect many others - the 1954 Chordettes hit rather than the Chet Atkins though.
and yes Klipsch plays my heart best too!
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Woah! 16hz?? You’ve got to be kidding me 😆
what do you mean by bass bin here? Are you using some additional box with the MEH box?
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1 hour ago, Ivaols said:
I am using broad band absorption from RPG, models Plate 1 and Modex Edge. For diffusion I use Modffractal from RPG. In addition I have some diy absorption and planning on diy VPR.
Well! I guess I should just speak for myself - with a few fuzzy towels push pinned to the walls and some heavy drapes over the windows.🤨
Any pics of your cinema setup Ivaols?
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On 3/8/2019 at 10:35 AM, Shakeydeal said:
I look forward to your report.
The Magicos in my very brief audition in an unfamiliar room were impressive in their detail and coherence on Steve Wilson's Even Less and some high rez jazz. But, I knew after a couple tunes that I couldn't go back to that buttoned down, canned, relatively lifeless sound. Big horns are too addictive!
Tonight the flagship Maggies in a big room playing some classical piece custom recorded to sound like Jim Winey's 11th row concert hall seat. I've got to give props to the latest top dog from this premier designer but ...it's not for me. Too polite. Very nice background music. Again I'm addicted to the immediacy of the K402/horn loaded bass
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8 hours ago, Ivaols said:
A couple of rounds with Chris A and it sounds better than ever. This have been really fun
The latest experiments shows a favorable lighter yet punchie sound when the level does not start to rise before 150hz and downwards.
Bravo! Now you hear the power of getting some of the fundamentals correct. A real ear opener for me!
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13 hours ago, Chris A said:
Yes.
The difference in subjective listening performance is like the difference between the living and the dead, IME.
There is a great deal of difference, I've found, especially after the early reflections from within 3-4 feet (a metre) of the loudspeaker and the listener's positions have been controlled via absorption (and/or extensive broadband diffusion over 200-7,000 Hz). This is really easy to see within REW by looking at the group delay plots (treated--yellow trace, untreated-blue green trace) after EQing both sets of loudspeakers to flat response:
Chris
Easy to see is right! I'll guess I'll just have to hear the auditory difference for myself. I've been meaning to get serious about room treatments for a long while now. Would you recommend the OP and I follow you down the absorption path with Auralex Sonofiber?
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On 3/8/2019 at 6:45 PM, Ivaols said:
Current Xilica graph
Huh. So although the point isn’t to make this Xilica curve look like the hoped for FR curve, it is alot smoother now. And the shelves are gone. Maybe I was on the right track. I suspect the point is to measure the actual output FR in room not just plug in someone else’s settings 😸
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I also haven't heard Jubes but may have some sense of what they can do based on my K402/TAD 4002/Khorn bass system with Xilica active xover. While I haven't owned any of the high end speakers mentioned either I had a brief listening session at fellow audiophile's home of the Magico Q5 recently and am about to have a 1 hour demo of the Magnepan 30.7 flagship on Monday night setup and demoed by Wendell Diller on his regional tour. I'll report back after then.
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I’m glad you’re getting closer 😸. Please post the current Xilica graph to help educate the ignorant among us...me
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2 hours ago, rplace said:
Pardon my ignorance, but what does the xilica graph possibly matter? It can't know anything about you speaker/room. Isn't it just showing you your particular settings in a visual Manor? A boost here and there. Nothing to do with results. For that you would need the REW sweep(s) to, hopefully, see a flat-ish reading or where more adjustments are needed.
You say the REW readings are crazy too. Do they mimic the xilica?
I'm trying to understand everything about my xilica 2-way set up. Wondering if I am missing the point.
Any explanation of what the shelf settings are/do would be appreciated.
Actually, I was displaying my ignorance. Of course you're right, the Xilica graph doesn't correlate with FR. The point isn't to make the Xilica graph into a smooth curve. Again you're right, the REW sweeps are what we must look at to see the results of these Xilica changes. Sorry to all.
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43 minutes ago, Chris A said:
Ivaols: if you take a REW sweep of the resulting response using a calibrated microphone (like a UMIK-1 with its miniDSP web-site-accessible calibration file indexed to the microphone's serial number), it would be nice to see the resulting response in the form of an export REW measurement file (*.mdat). If you manage to take a measurement, please send me a PM and I'll return my email address to email your measurement file to. Then I can help to optimize the settings for your room setup, particularly those below 200 Hz (which always vary a great deal from room to room).
Chris
@Ivaols
Push on through to the ChrisA zone! His help going back and forth with sequentially better versions of the Xilica settings fine tuned for my room made a HUGE improvement for my first active setups.
Once you get the mic, if you need any help setting it up with REW just PM me. I do computer tech support for a living.
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12 hours ago, Ivaols said:
Hi
I have tried to use the settings I got above in this thread, but the resulting graph looks cracy both in the Xilica software (Attached image), and the measured frequency graph in REW. Any ideas what I have done wrong?
Maybe you’ve been working with ChrisA or someone more experienced overnight but I would say those two shelves are screwing things up. Try changing those to regular PEQ filters and adjusting the ‘db’ row (gain) and Oct row (how broad) until you get a smooth curve
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Gordon Goodwin's Big Phat Band - XXL on DVD-audio. Most dynamic, full surround, realistic recording/mix I've heard. I was looking for something to "WoW" me the way the old Sheffield Labs direct to disk vinyl used to when I was young. This did it!
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"Friends don't let friends buy Bose"
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More pics please! Nice room and building. Heating system sounds heavenly quiet - this from someone dealing with forced hot air...
Did you try the speakers on the long wall?
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On 2/12/2019 at 12:44 PM, Chris A said:
Yes. The horn would not be a K-402--but much heavier--about 2x to 3x heavier than the present K-402. This represents a much stiffer horn than the stock K-402 to accommodate the woofers and significantly reduce flexing...
Chris
Chris,
Are you having an issue with the K402 based prototype involving flexing? Are there unwanted resonances heard or showing up in REW?
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Today is my birthday. Feels like an extra special gift to wake up to this thread taking off again with you taking it over the top Craig! Incredible amp rack! Here's an interesting old thread about the ZR1600. Have you looked into modding them at all?
Excellent tops on the Khorn bins. Having the K402s all around the same height may be more important for the coherence of the surround sound field than whether or not you lower them, I don't know.
I'm so glad Chris is helping you with this K402/Khorn bass integration. My own journey into this new dimension of K402/Khorn bass/Xilica 4080 active DSP wouldn't be possible without Chris' unselfish guidance.
Can't wait to hear your listening impressions as you get this superb system dialed in. As a drummer you likely have a better sense than most of the sound and feel of a live trap set. This system seems designed to reproduce that sensation. What will you be playing first? Maybe some personal recordings of your own playing?
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I don't have mine especially tight in corners. Just added foam pipe insulation to improve it. You're in for a treat Craig! You inspire me to find a way to get a big horn center and surrounds.
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Thanks Chris. I"ll do that soon. I've been measuring the left K402/Khorn in that make-shift corner. I"ll think I'll measure the right one in the good corner this time.
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Chris, As usual you're a font of compelling technical info. By "shortened down" I think you mean lowered with the mount mods we've been discussing, yes? Now that I've shortened mine down too and added appropriate delay, how can I go from my current Bessel filters to your first order?
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Welcome PB! I recognize you as a valuable contributor on other forums including DIYaudio. The same Patrick Bateman?
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35 minutes ago, AHall said:
How do you like the SIT amp. I think I’m going to try to build one when Nelson Pass finishes the new batch of sit transistors soon. The reviews say they have a triode tubey sound to them without all the tube headache. I think this would be ideal for 402s
Bought it used in person from an excellent guy in CT who had been using it to drive his Zu speakers and moved on I believe to Coincident Frankenstein. It is silent on the 402 TAD combo fed by the Xilica much to my delight (I was worried about noise when going active). I run it about 5 hours/day during the week and 18 on the weekends. It runs warm but not hot. No thumping on turn on or turn off. I like it a lot.
As I stated, I have yet to get a handle on its sound given my "macro" changes of K402, TAD, and especially the Xilica with its powerful ability to dial in Xover, FR, delay and so phase as Chris pointed out. Any change in amp even an excellent one like this is "micro" in sound differences compared to the other changes.
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402s with TADs on Khorn bass horns active Xilica 4080. FirstWatt SIT2 on the top. Trying several things on the bottom. Thinking I should be listening for the best “first watt” given the extreme sensitivity of this combo
I’m in musical heaven lately since the 402 TAD change. Haven’t really dialed in yet on any amp differences
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A K-402-Based Full-Range Multiple-Entry Horn
in Technical/Restorations
Posted
Well, that kind of answers it - you use stereo mode to pull in the subs. I get that you don't listen to much 2 channel music because it just isn't as satisfying compared to multichannel but what about the MEH with 2 channel music to anchor the image in the center? some modern version of PWKs center channel circuit? something derived from the 2 channels but not synthesized in the sense of adding any effects. Maybe just another memory preset on the Xilica could create this when there is no actual center channel.