jcm

So being a tube newbie, how much does the choice of tube affect the impedance curve, if at all (say a KT88 vs EL34)? Or does it come down to transformers, etc? Any info appreciated.

Wow, what a difference! I moved the speakers to the 4 ohm taps, and the midrange is now solid but not overwhelming, the bass is heftier, and the soundstage just doubled in width. I can't believe such a simple change could make such a huge difference. Thanks for the catch, Peter!

I rarely read the test measurements in Stereophile, but this is a great catch! According to the tests, I should be using the 4 ohm tap instead of the 8 ohm tap. I will give that a whirl and see what happens. I wonder if the Dialogue series is better in this regard. Stereophile has unfortunately not tested the Dialogue 1 or 2.

This is going to be an all-analog system (with the exception of a Sonos/DAC), so using room correction is not really an option. I'd rather marry the amp and speakers well and get around that. But that may not be possible. As for power, the Primaluna has serious authority and weight. Quite surprising given the power ratings, but I think we all know that 35w of power from a serious class-A amp will always trump 120w of power from an AVR. Or at least it has in my experience. I am thinking tube amp upgrade for the khorns... LOL, I'm not sure if I can lift those RF-7's upstairs. They are beasts I'm not entirely sure it's the room, though, as I used to use a pair of RB81's and Infinitys, and neither reacted this way. But I bought both of those systems used, so they had already been broken in. I let the system run for 12 hours straight today, and it sounded better on good source material. I will say this about the RF-7s: garbage in = garbage out x 10. Compressed modern music sounds awful at high volumes. On second thought, I would like to try some room autocorrection. Emotiva should be coming out with their XMC-1 next month, and I have an upgrade card. Perhaps I'll put that one upstairs and bring the UMC-1 down and try that out. I wish Emotiva would make a standalone room correction solution. Or better yet, a combined room correction/DAC!

This thread could probably be classified under "speaker break-in" or "room acoustics", but here goes: I received a pair of RF-7 II's last week, and hooked them up to a demo unit of a PrimaLuna ProLogue Premium Integrated amp. I let the speakers break in for over 40 hours so far, and the sound is still very harsh in the midrange. The PrimaLuna is using EL34's, which are generally known to have a sweet, if a bit forward, midrange, so the tube might have a little something to do with it. The room is huge: it's basically my downstairs, which is about 1000sqft, with 25' high ceilings and not much in the way of acoustic treatments. My previous system did not have anywhere near this much harshness (old Infinity SM225s with a Denon 4806), so the room can't be all of it either. Speaker placement is about 8' apart, 12' from the listenting area. The downstairs isn't square, and kind of meanders, so there is no "long" side, but the shortest wall is over 20'. Because of the wall-mounted TV above the fireplace and some other room considerations, I don't have a lot of play with speaker positions. Anyway, I took the PrimaLuna upstairs and hooked it into my (very well broken in) khorns, and the sound was simply mesmerizing. No harshness at all, great dynamics, tons of khorn bass. So, on to the question: is this just a matter of breaking in the RF-7's for another 40 hours? Perhaps move to KT88's? Or is the room too lively without treatments? I'm sure my wife would love to add tapestries all over the place, but that cuts into the budget for a turntable Thanks, John

Yes, late next week I should have a demo unit on hand. I will let you know the results.

Looking for a nice integrated, and came across the iNova. Heard it with B&W speakers, but wasn't a fan of the low end. But I'm not a fan of B&W speakers, so... Anybody using this combo? How is the sound? Can the amp section handle the impedance dip of the 7's? Dynamics? Thanks!

I first heard MBL amps and speakers at the Rocky Mountain Audio Show a few years back, and I was blown away. It was the only system there that I though truly destroyed mine Of course they are priced similar to a sedan, so I really didn't think much about them. Now MBL has a nice little amp called the 8006B that l am thinking about as an upgrade to my Emotiva XPA-5 for the khorns. It seems difficult to find a really satisfying amp that doesn't put out way too much power... the 8006B is only 125w RMS/500 peak, which matches the khorn specs very well. There is a shop on audiogon selling one for under $2500, so it's in range... (see http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1315520310). I know most MBL amps are monsters, and probably not appropriate for legacy series, but has anybody heard them in that combo? Thanks all, John

I use the Emotiva XPA-5 with khorns and it is quite something to hear. Mind you I have upgraditis as bad as the poster, but the XPA-2 would be a monster with the RF-7 II's. Truly over the top. John

Great to hear that you are hosting a Japanese exchange student. As it turns out, so am I! I picked him up from the airport three days ago. I will have to ask him about the beet thing. Personally I would just serve the beets, then hand her a box of Kotex afterwards. But I am a bit of a @$$ at times. Or so I'm told []

Totally in agreement. A good sub enhances the experience for all kinds of music, not just home theater and techno/rap. I am playing Dire Straits' "The Man's too Strong" on my khorns right now, and turning on the sub at a 40Hz crossover really adds dynamics and oomph to the refrain. I use a JL Audio sub, which I find meets the dynamic response of Klipsch's speakers very well.

Just thought I'd sound off on this thread, as I have the UMC-1, an XPA-5 and a whole lotta Klipsch hooked up to it. I started off with a Denon 4306 hooked up to RB-81 fronts, an RC-64 center and RS-62 surrounds. Sounded very nice to my ears, although the bass was lacking. I added a JL Audio Fathom 113 sub and that fixed that problem. Had to turn the sub way up, though, and also had to cross it over really high (like 100Hz) to get decent response across the board. Then I got an XPA-5 and used that instead of the amplifier section of the Denon. The sound was really harsh until I realized that I had to change the toe-in of the RB-81s a LOT to get the sound right. I also apparently wasn't getting nearly as good of a midrange response from the Denon's amp section, and my ears were adjusting. But the dynamics became spectacular, especially for home theater use. I also was able to cross the sub down to 80 without losing any bass response, so the XPA was pumping out a lot more current. Next upgrade was to the UMC-1. I got mine a couple months ago, and the difference in sound from the Denon was stark. Not sure how to describe the difference, except that the sound was a lot more refined... a lot less harsh and a lot more expressive at higher frequencies. I could suddenly listen to music for hours on end without getting fatigued. Yes, the UMC-1 is still plagued with little annoyances, but I have faith that Emotiva will get them resolved. The latest upgrade was from the RB-81s to full Khorns. Megadifference in terms of bass response. I now cross the sub over at 40Hz, mainly because that's as low as the UMC-1 will let me. Bass is also much more natural, and not as chuffy. You feel the bass rather than hear it (for notes in the lowest octaves that is). The combination is a little brighter than the RB-81, so I am looking at getting a tube amp for the Khorns and using the RB-81s for the rear surrounds. Should be interesting to see if I can get all the speakers going in a 20'x20' room! Anyway, the UMC-1 is worth the upgrade, as was the XPA-5. Good company and great prices.

The current car toy is a 2010 Camaro SS. Love it.

I wish. The only other choice is the living area, which has 20' ceilings and opens into the dining room and kitchen areas and the upstairs hallway. This is what I have to work with, and it's why it might seem that I am not following the otherwise good suggestions given here. You can't see them, but the corners of the rooms have the ceiling coming down to 5'2" or less. Which means the Khorns will JUST fit under them. I do have an acre of land, and my dream is to build a self-contained media "shack", with perfect acoustics, a 100"+ screen and enough speakers to lift the roof. That's a ways out though, and the logistics issues are no less difficult (electricity, water for the bar area, etc.).

OK, the dual fan thing is out. Instead of explaining why, I'll just post a picture of the ceiling in this room. It says it all.

Hm, dual fan action. Let me look into that. I secretly dream of putting one of these babies in there.

And that's the other problem. I don't have one serious hobby: I have about a dozen. Cars, photography and hi-fi are the most expensive though.

That's what I like about my wife: she doesn't really spend any money at all, so I get all the toys I want! There will be big speakers in the room, the question is which ones and where

Coyotee, Adding the wood finish definitely helps but the real issue is the megaphone-style horn. It's large and in charge, that's for sure. So you just dropped the tweeter altogether, or did you move the tweeter frequencies to a more broadband driver? I admit the loss of the tweeter makes it look a whole lot more clean. Can I use the basshorn slots to store CDs? [] I live outside of Austin, so if any Jubilee fans live nearby I'm happy to bring pizza for a listening party!

I'm sure the Julbilees sound great, but that doesn't overcome their inherent brashness. I don't value sound that much higher than aesthetics. I prefer something that looks like a million bucks while knocking me off my feet with sound. If I ever decide to build a dedicated HT room, I might look at the Jubilees hidden behind an opaque front wall. But for this room, I want class. The Belles are unfortunately up in Minnesota, so a four-day U-Haul extravaganza is out of the question, as is a look at them before I buy. That's why I wanted to know if anybody knew this guy and/or the speakers he is selling. So a question about modding the Khorns: if you seal up the back, what does that do to the bass response? Would that just turn the basshorn into a infinite baffle enclosure? At which point it would perform worse than the Belle? I thought about the projector idea, but the one thing you can't see in my diagram is the ceiling fan in the center of the room. And boy howdy does that room need it. The ceiling has minimal insulation before you hit the roof (no attic above), so the room gets HOT. Add a bunch of stereo equipment and you can roast marshmallows when the A/C kicks off. I think I will get the Khorns regardless, and just see how they work in the room. I can always sell them and pick up some Belles if it doesn't work out. Moved the marriage discussion off-line. Nobody reading a Klipsch forum needs to know our viewpoints on that.

Just looked at the Jubilees on the Klipsch site. I'm sure they sound awesome, but that isn't quite what I'm looking for. For some reason it looks like the speaker is yelling at you. Must be the midrange horn that is big enough to put your head in. If Darth Vader had a home theater, those are his surrounds.

There are a nice-looking pair of Belles on Audiogon (link), but the ad is a little scary. Anybody know this guy?

Roger, I'm happy that you have a slave-holding agreement with your wife, but I was born in the 20th century, so I actually *like* my wife. Plus I hate the idea of covering up my awesome view of the Texas hill country with the finest TV Sony sold in 1995. But back to the problem: I am considering buying a pair of Khorns that a guy renovated, with collars on the backs (not closed, just grille cloth). I looked at the false corners method, and I would probably be better off buying Belles than going that route. In fact, that is what I am thinking might be the right way to go. Only problem with Belles is that there are pretty massive, and if you look at the placement options flanking the TV, they would have the equivalent toe-in of 45 degrees, which will probably be another issue to have to deal with. As for Palladiums, I don't want speakers that cost as much as a new car. If I were to spend that kind of money I would probably get MBL-101e Radialstrahlers just so that I could tell people why I had 1500 lbs of speaker gear in my room. I was originally sold on the RF-83s, which would match the rest of my system, but at the cost differental between those and the Khorns I just couldn't resist the upgrade. The RF-83's have a bit unnatural bass as well. Could just be me, but I love the effortless bass of a fully loaded horn woofer. I was at a Klipsch dealer years ago when the 83's had just come out. This dealer had everything from RF-62s up to Khorns, and everything in between, including the full lineup of Heritage. He played some music, then slowly worked his way from speaker to speaker, starting with the entry level and ending with the Khorns. The difference between the 83s and the Heritage line was well defined to me. I know that if I get the 83s I will just need to upgrade again one day, and as I don't own a money tree, I figured I would just save up and go with the Khorn and never look back. Unfortunately my house doesn't really have a lot of corners (I live in Texas, where houses sprawl, with vaguely defined "living areas"). So, solution #1 is go with Belles or Cornwalls instead of Khorns. Not my preferred route, but I get the same mid and treble as the Khorn without screwing up the aesthics. So not bad.

Wife vetoed putting the TV in front of a window. False corners will get a similar veto unless I go all out and build ornate false corners, which I do not have the carpentry skills to pull off. The square room is definitely a problem, although the ceiling adds its own complications. The room has a flat top about 8' tall in the center, but the walls come down to just over 5' at the corners. Think dormers from hell. It actually helps reduce standing waves and other problems by making the sound travel all over the place. Not sure what it will do with the Khorns. So given that putting the TV in front of a window/door is not an option, my original question still stands: what will happen to the imaging if two Khorns are places diametrically opposed to each other, instead of in adjacent corners?

I have a curious issue. The only room in my house that will accomodate a home theater is a large 20x20 room above my garage. The issue is that all of the side walls have either a window or a door in their centers. So right now I have the TV in a corner, center and sides right next to the TV, and the surrounds are pretty much in the corners flanking the TV (actually a little bit farther back). I am looking at replacing the fronts with Khorns (a lifetime dream), and I don't see how I can make this work. To be corner-loaded, I would have to put the Khorns in the corners where I now have the surrounds. The surrounds would end up pushed nearly in the back corner (opposite the TV), making them rears more than surrounds. I'm not too worried about the placement of the surrounds, as they are RS-62s and thus send sound all over the place. What I am concerned about is imaging from two Khorns loaded directly right and left of the sitting area... For two channel it is probably OK, but will it mess up the HT?