maxg

Kaiser, I owned the Tango before I got the Clearaudio and I think it was one of my better decisions. All I did when it came time to buy a phono stage (to replace a Project Phono Box) was went around 5 local audio stores and emptied them of phono stages. I then did a grand test over a single weekend of eitehr 9 or 11 units (cant remember now - it was years ago). The Tango just seemed to me to be the best at getting out of the way of the music. It came across to my ears as the least flavoured, its measurements were also the closest to the RIAA specs and it was the most adjustable of all of the phono stages I then found. GREAT match to the Denon 103 BTW. Does LOMC to a Tee.

Close - what you can see if the Acoustic Signature Tango phono stage. My speed controller is clearaudio too - what can I say? The clearaudio salesman was very good - the damn mat is clearaudio too - so is the phono cable - they really saw me coming.

Clearaudio have many models. This is a Master Solution TT which is about 2/3rds of the way up the Solution series and one set below the Master Reference series. If I choose to I can upgrade it to the one in the pciture below. This picture is actually of a slightly older model but suffices to show the additional motors (a double edged sword in my book) and the non-plinth extension to keep them in place. Not shown is the motor controller that keeps all 3 motors spinning at exactly the same speed. Who knows - maybe one day if money becomes a non-issue....

Paul, What my calculations do not take into account is the compliance of the cantilever as things get very complicated from there on in. In essence a stiffer cantilever will cushion the falls and the rises to a lesser extent whilst with a higher compliance unit there is a risk of inducing "wobble" into the movement so that the cartridge will continue to rise and fall after the bump - subject to the shock absorption characteristics or damping. This then gets more complex where there are multiple rises and falls to be overcome. If the cartridge is still bouncing from the last one the effects will be even greater leading eventually to total mis-tracking. And yet it gets even worse than this with lateral play or compliance in the cantilever. As the motion of the cartridge towards the centre of the record is dictated by the side wall of the groove on the record it stands to reason that there will be an element of lateral movement induced in the cantilever. Again damping is going to be critical here as we now have potential for undesirable motion in both the vertical and horiztonal planes. Frankly - my math is not up to the job - but once you start to examine what is really going on it is amazing that records play at all. Suffice to say that all of these effects are reduced by the outer ring (although the suction system implemented by SOTA would do a very similar job I imagine) and that is why I use it and paid a silly sum for the privilege. It is interesting, however - and I am as guilty as anyone of this - that we vinyl junkies beat the drum of setting the proper tracking weight so loudly. One wonders how often the cartridge is anywhere near the tracking weight we so carefully set.....

One of the items I have on my TT that few others do is an outer ring. The idea is fairly simple - take a metal ring of some weight (1.5 kilos in this case) and use it to hold the record flat on the TT. It is not rocket science but what is the effect? I spent some time considering this issue. What is the ring actually doing? What difference can it make? At its simplest if we are not holding the record flat then there are bumps and dips to pass over. If the needle is passing over these then it stands to reason that various aspects of the setup are changing constantly and these might well have an impact on the sound. Certainly in my experience even with apparently flat records the difference is remarkable but I wanted to go a step further and do some of the math behind it. If you think about it the overhang is obviously changing, but, so it the tracking weight - and this really could be the most important aspect of all. As a result I produced a quick spreadsheet. Frankly I was not sure at the outset what was important and what was not so I just banged in all the parameters I could think of and then set about producing calculations which, I think, are correct but I am not 100% certain. Sadly I cannot attach the spreadsheet to this post directly so it is in zipped form. To help I have posted a copy in here - although obviously the formulae do not work - but it gives you the idea. Look at the end. the changes in tracking weight for a relatively modest bump are amazing. If it is not clear, starting from a measured tracking weight of 1.7 grams we get a variation of some 0.7 grams either way. Makes you wonder why people bother with digital scales!!! As follows: Cartridge movement in the vertical plane calculations Apparent mass of arm 10 grams Mass of cartridge 10 grams Mass of cartridge fixings 1 grams Total 21 grams Tracking weight 1.7 grams Disk speed 33.3 rpm Size of bump (length) 3 cm Height/Depth of bump 2 mm Distance from centre of record 13 cm Assuming a regular hill top - even on both sides. At 13 cm from the centre: Needle travels: 81.68141 cm in one revoltion = 45.33318 cm in one second Time to climb bump 0.033088 seconds Initial velocity in vertical plane 0 Distance traveled 0.2 cm Time 0.033088 seconds Acceleration (S=UT+1/2AT2) 365.3506 cm/s/s = 3.653506 m/s/s Gravity = 9.81 m/s/s Therefore ascending the bump: Tracking weight 2.333125 grams At the top of the bump 1.066875 grams (and descending) WOW!!! bumps in a record.zip

The mat that I use goes by the horrible name of Harmonicer and is a Clearaudio product. I chose this mat for the simple reason that is in actually an inverted record - made of the same stuff but thicker on the outside and thinner in the middle. The idea is that this provides a perfect fit for the record to sit on and be evenly supported throughout. In the picture you can see my TT with the mat (and not a record) in place. For me it is vitally important that the record is evenly supported as I use the outer ring and an inner weight. This means that there is an extra 2 kilos or so (3 lbs) riding on top of the record and holding it flat. What the mat does not do is any kind of resonance suppression. I work on the theory that I do not need this with my table. Other table might have different requirements.

Its $100. Its worth $100. If you like it that makes it priceless. If you do not like it selling it again for $100 will not be hard. What's to think about?

"may we swim before or after dessert?" If it is one of the cakes my wife made - you can probably swim in the dessert. I do not think there is a human being alive that could swim after that particular dessert however....

Ah flashbacks.....been a while hasn't it. Right - the jukebox is all new but it takes Euros now rather than the venerable drachma - its directly connected to iTunes - so songs are downloaded over the all new 24 mb/s interenet connection. Wireless links to the network are free to the customers. Women can dance on the table that do not have routers on them. Sorry folks - we have to move with the times - we are now an e-taberna and you can charge your blackberries over there next to the Tsipouro barrel. Hopefully most other things feel the same - the fish is still fresh - the dress code is in place (dresses are optional for the female patrons) and the music maybe digital but it does go on till 4 am. Friday nights are live music nights - OPA!! Otherwise - relax, kickback and enjoy....

Ah Thebes - you had it easy!! All boys school - the girl's equivalent school was over a mile away and apparently guarded by machine gun nests, minefields and a series of teachers whose sole job was to inflict misery on the youth of the day. They didn't even let us share buses on the way home. If we were to meet girls it had to be in a social setting - with little common ground (shared homework assignments for example) to open the conversation. The girls made this job far harder by hanging around in packs. To brave going up to a girl was to face the whimsy of a gaggle of onlookers and a torrent of half heard whispers, giggles and sometimes some pointing. All this was to change on entering university - so I promised myself. I had planned a steady stream of wild oats. Within 3 days I got lucky - oh happy day - what joys were in store for the rest of my college career.....well, it didn't quite go according to plan. I married her - that was 23 years ago. One oat - wildish, maybe. So much for the sexual revolution!

OK - I am going to look at (listen to) Sharp, Panasonic, Sanyo and LG - wall mounted with the external box. Interesting the report on the LG being quiet. I bought an LG refridgerator for the holiday home and it is totally silent. As it cost about a fifth of the Amana we have at home that really P's me off - the Amana is a 747 on a take off run. LG's are cheap too - probably assembled by abused children who get $1 an hour or something - I dont think I want to look too closely....

Thanks Gilbert - I think I was looking for something a little more.....er......a little less.....visually intrusive perhaps. OK Fini - I got it - the ideal system for a curry house. I dont think it would work too well here as it is hot as hell at night too. There is just no escape .....

Well - thanks all for the input - I did not realize we have different systems in Europe from the US. Over here you have a unit that goes on the wall with a hole behind it somewhere leading out to a box - usually either on the outside wall or the floor. The "Head unit" has a fan - the back unit does the conditioning, gets hot and makes noise. I do not mind about this noise (screw the neighbours) but I do want a quiet head unit. Someone mentioned units that are 35 dB or less (Sanyo?) - that will be the thing for me. Anyway - I have never seen a window unit (consiously) so it wont be one of those - and I didnt understand Fini's system at all so I will be looking at the euro models and make a decision from there. Computer still an issue - I like the idea of the Mac Mini - can easily tuck that one out of the way. Is this a better idea than one of these media PC's? I would imagine that they are silent too - anyone got one?

Slightly mad question Erik, If they only made one range of speakers I would guess they would go out of business rather quickly. In that light I would suggest whichever speaker makes them the best return - problaby the RF range but that is a complete guess - for all I know the returns on the promedia speakers are the best. Actually I have the Promedia 2.0's on my computer at home - amazing sound for the size/price.

Sorry Erik if it wasnt clear. The Doc makes an interesting (if not new) point - if you are to compare a live event with a recording of that self same event and ignoring the difficulties that presents - then if should be possible to ascertain which of 2 speakers is the more accurate. Thinking about it a live event is probably not the best way to do this - if we are talking purely about the ability to reproduce a given frequency - or a series of frequencies then it might be better to use a signal generator for the job along with either equipment to measure the result or someone with perfect pitch. What this would tell you about your preference is, however, anyone's guess. I recall something similar being done with a panel of experts when ascertaining the benefits of DSD over PCM where the recording was being played back almost immediately after the event with both streams. It was this exercise that got me into SACD in the first place - that did not work out well come to think of it......[:^)]

Back to the original question for a moment - with a few more which might help: How big is your listening room? What music do you generally listen to? What speakers do you have currently? - What do you like about them? - What do you not like about them? How important are the following aspects to you? - Bass response? - Imaging? - Soundstage? IMHO there is no milage in saying the Chorus is a more accurate speaker than a Heresy. You can say the Chorus plays deeper bass but outside of that I do not think it is more accurate persay. A Heresy with a sub, by logical conclusion should be a match for a pair of Chorus speakers - but funnily enough they won't sound exactly the same in a given room. As an interesting aside if you really are having difficulty choosing between the 2 the Forte might be a nice compromise - although the Forte 2 actually goes lower than the Chorus strangely enough (therefore more accurate?). As for Erik Vs the good Doctor - as usual both have a point and both are missing the other's. Yes - the same set of ears would be involved in listening to a live event as to a recording and therefore can be discounted in the comparison, but, and there are a series of big buts here: a/ Such comparisons rely on audio-memory which is notoriously unreliable and will vary from one individual to another. b/ During either the live or the recorded event what the Brain translates as important (more or less enjoyable) will also vary from one listener to another. c/ Not only does people's ability to hear vary greatly from one individual to another their hearing ability also changes with age (generally not for the better). What appears accurate to me today might be uncomfortable tomorrow (or in a few years more likely). d/ How many of us have really had the opportunity to compare a live event with a recording of that self same event? How do you actually know what accurate is most of the time? Even if you have managed to experience this - where were you in relation to the mike's? How much work was done by the recording engineer after the recording was made? Etc. etc. (before anyone starts with a "but the recording will be common to a comparison of both speakers" I should point out that if the engineer has boosted the sound at any given frequency that might benefit one speaker over the other so the comparison would not be fair due to frequency response of the drivers, cabinets and Xover points). Bottom line: Subject to the music you listen to, the room you listen in, the time of day, the humidty, your personal perferences, the supporting equipment, the recordings, your hearing, your mood, any medical conditions you may or may not have and about 500 more caveats one will probably sound better than the other to you - or not.

What is a window unit? I want one that goes on the wall with an external box that does the cooling preferably. 230 Volts, 50 Hz mains power - AC. Room is 6 * 6 * 3 meters - I guess 14000 BTU would do - it doesnt have to be a fridge.

Which company makes the quietest air con unit? It is kinda important right now - I simply cannot listen to my music as the unit I have roars like a 747 and it is over 100 degrees farenheit in the shade over here.... Come to that - what is the quietest PC too - a Mac would probably do. I am getting a seriously fast internet connection and planning to run TV signal over it but I do not want to have to turn the PC off every time I listen to music. Looking for as near to sub 40 dB as I can get.

Oscar, "Yet Max G seriously knows his stuff and he's in the Accuphase camp. Everyday I turn on my Accuphase based system I am very pleased. " I think you have me confused with someone else!! Well - I might know my stuff - but this whole audio thing has me bewildered!!! Anyway - to the subject at hand I have never actually compared Mac and Accuphase in the same system. I have heard both in various systems and have the general impression that the systems containing the Accuphase had better overall sound - to my ears and all that jazz. I can also say that this does not apply to all Accuphase gear - the E211, for example, which I owned for a time, was poor for its money in comparison to other amps I have experienced in my own system. I regard the E530 as just about peerless and the E407 as possibly one of the best integrateds there are for less sensitive speakers (great with KHorns too - but the 530 is probably a better option). Other than that their high end stuff (pre / power combos) have always been superb in my experience - but we are talking some serious money here and at that level there is a lot of competition. I would regard these as beyond anything "Mac" I have experienced. All of the above is IMHO and the usual caveats apply.

One of the best implementations of Khorns I ever heard was with an Accuphase E406 integrated amp @ 170 wpc into 8 ohms. Certainly no lacking for bass or midrange there.... Put me down in the Accuphase camp.

Oh for a workshop and space to store all that. Just imagine the months of fun playing with that lot - and you are right - some interesting pieces hidden away in there. Instant divorce of course.....but that would give more time for playing.

Yes - but he has 5 bose cubes in his shorts.

Thanks Mrs. D. This one went down like a lead balloon didn't it - and I was so proud of my invention.... Goddammed audiophiles!!![]

I presume from the intro that the Rega Apollo is a new piece of kit in your system. Stands to reason, if that is the case, that you will be playing it more in the early stages. "Sounding pretty close to vinyl" is a bit of a giveaway - in time I have a feeling you will revert back. If not - congratulations - you just saved yourself a whole lot of hassle. Right now I am hardly listening to my system at all - it is simply too hot without the AC and too noisy with it. Roll on winter.....

30 kids and 40+ adults. Daughter's belated 5th birthday - needed to rig up a music system and the wife wanted us to have a karaoke function. Putting on my best MacGyver hat I came up with this: Took one old Aiwa amp and its matching 5 disk CD player. Connected the Aiwa to my amp with the headphone out into the RCA in on my pre-amp using an adapter to convert mini din plug to large din plug. The Aiwa amp has 2 mike inputs (and a karaoke function that largely masks the lead singer). Got 2 cheap mikes - connected them up. Worked amazingly well - both volume controls worked so I set the pre-amp to a moderate level and then just used the control on the aiwa to vary the levels. Amazingly there was no sign of the input level overwhelming the inputs on the pre-amp - up to ludicrously loud volumes. Everything went swimmingly till the Cd changer failed unexpectedly at about 10:30. Took less than one minute to pull the connections from the existing single CD player from the pre-amp through the aiwa to continue the singalong. Time to setup the whole thing : 5 minutes. Time to remove it after the party - 5 minutes. Time to recover from 30 kids plus others - still ongoing. Very few breakages - lots of popped balloons though. Lessons learned: Some kids can sing very well indeed for 7 years old. Some can't. Confidence is no guide to singing ability. It helps to have a garden adults can spill out into. The only adults that ventured in once the music went over about 100 dB were those with video camera's.