maxg

I am not sure on the comparison you are asking me to make. I have not heard the RF5, only the RF3 and the RF7. In simple terms comparing the Heresy to either of the RF's I prefered the sound of the Heresy on both mids and highs but they dont compete on bass. This is not a problem for me as I have a sub which provides even more bass than either of the RF speakers. It is an interesting problem when talking about a surround sound system. Ultimately the Heresy can be matched to a sub (as above) but more normally than in a 2 channel system (in other words it is more common to incorporate a sub into a surround sound system than it is into a 2 channel system). In that setup they would make great fronts and IMHO provide better highs and mids than the RF options. The problem is that there is no dedicated centre channel designed to provide a proper tonal match. This is not the case with RF speakers which have their own specially made centre channel. Of course there are options - like a third Heresy for the centre but it is less than ideally shaped to stand on top of most TV's. You could even do with no centre channel and rely on the sound staging to create the voices properly in the middle. This will work from the sweet spot but not off-axis. Reading what I have just written I can see that this is of little or no real help to you. Sorry about that - I have a mind that goes off on tangents sometimes!!!

Actually it has suddenly occured to me that I may be able to address the relative weaknesses of the 2 speakers with the other upgrades I have in mind. Maybe, just maybe, the changing of the amp for SET, and/or the changing of the cartridge for an MC unit with accompanying change of phono stage will either improve the soundstage of the Heresy or the clarity of the Sansui sufficiently to allow me to live with only one of them. That would make life easier - I wonder if I can persuade SWMBO to hold fire on my execution until I find out??? There can be only one!!!

So yesterday a guy called in response to my newspaper advertisement for the Heresy's and wanted to come over to see/hear them. I duly got home early, disconnected the Sansui's, connected the Heresy's, switched off the sub and set about setting up the speakers to create a soundstage. The record I grabbed to do the setup was my Wild Child Butler on direct to disk both because it was the first one that came to hand and because it is ideal for setting up the speakers. He sings spot on in the middle of the sound stage with the instrumentation evenly spread to the left and right. So I am playing with the speaker toe in and deeply concentrating on getting it right when I am suddenly struck by how good this sounds. There is a clarity to the Heresy that is missing from the Sansui, and amazingly the bass that I have always been so disparaging about seemed wonderful. Having got the soundstage spot on (a lot of practice doing this - took about 3 minutes) I sat down to listen properly. My god it sounded good - so good I started to wonder if I was going out of my mind in selling them. I called Tony who listened to me rant patiently, calmly assuring me that all I needed was some psychiatric care, a few years of therapy and a vallium and all would be well. Anyway I was deeply unsure of the sale when the doorbell rang and the guy arrived. To my utter joy it turned out that he had confused the Heresy with the professional version (I think) and he was expecting to see a much larger speaker with 104 dB sensitivity. I relaxed - phew - he didnt want them. Then he saw the Sansui's and went bananas - offering me $1500 on the spot for them - without even hearing them. Turns out he owned the Sansui 7000 years ago and loved them. I then disconnected the Heresy's and reconnected the Sansui's in about 3 mintues flat - including the time to position them and setup the soundstage. I put the same record on and immediately decided these were not for sale either. Whislt they lack the clarity of the Heresy they have so many other strengths in terms of soundstage width, depth, image size and the 3 dimensionality of the whole presentation I cant part with these either. Anyway he was a very nice guy and we chatted about all thing audio for a while. Seems like he has some very nice items in his setup (including an Audionote amp that sounded really interesting). After a while he left and I surveyed the problem. The problem is this: I love both of these speakers but I do not have the room to keep both (SWMBO is on my back about the space all of my gear takes up). I have to get rid of one of them. I could probably survive the loss of the Heresy easier but I would miss them. I suppose the obvious choice would be to sell both and go out and find a pair of speakers that combines their strengths but do you really think that would be easy??? It took my 2 years to find the Heresy's and an instant to realise it was a sound I adored. It took a complete accident to find the Sansui's and a minute to realise its strengths verses the Heresy. Sadly, the most obvious candidates are problematic for a replacement of the 2. I find the LaScala sound too harsh and the speaker itself too large. The Cornwall, an obvious candidate if I were in the US, was, as far as I can tell, never sold in Greece, and is equally large. KHorns dont fit, Belles dont fit and both are too expensive here. You dont suppose I should be looking at the RF5 or RF7 do you? This is a speaker I didnt like last time I heard it but that was matched to SS equipment. God this hobby can drive you mad sometimes...

Well Justin - if you fancy building yourself a preamp the Bottlehead foreplay is supposed to be an excellent pre and costs about $100. Otherwise it might be time to hit ebay for something. There are lots of bargains out there - especially vintage stuff that can be picked up for peanuts (1970's Sansui, Pioneer etc.).

Well well well... I just read the manual for the arm in English for the first time. This is certainly a lot more straightforward than I thought. 2 things to unscrew to adjust the height and one to ensure the needle points straight down - no biggie - I could do that. I wonder why it took the guy that installed it 25 minutes to get it right? Hell - at this rate I might even play with the counterweight thingie too.. So do we conclude that this is in fact a good arm as arms go?

Erik, I think you have me confused with someone else!!! Well maybe I would be capable of putting an amp together for all I know - but I have never attempted anything as grand as that (remember - I got a man in to adjust the VTA and whatnot on my TT!!!) On the other hand I am the proud owner of an almost mint condition soldering iron (used once) and some audiophile solder!!

NOS, I take it you dont vant ze manual in ze original Deutche vich is vhat I found last night. On the other hand I think Dubai is in Germany - maybe he can translate!!! Just kidding but that aside what a doofus I am for not checking out my own link. I now have a manual for my TT in English!! Anyway glad you too are up and running with a manual finally.

Thanks Edster - my bad - fingers working faster than brain again!!

Nos, Go to the project site listed above and download the manual for the RPM 4 TT. It has some info on the arm and its setup which should prove useful. There isnt anything tehcnical for the arm itself. Dubai, Thanks - I may look into it. Right now I was planning to concentrate on getting the most out of my current table rather than looking to new ones (or 2nd hand ones). AS it happens I think I know what table I want to eventually end up with once I have exhausted the project options (www.acousticsolid.de - check out the "machine")

Yes - but mine is in German!! Have you been to http://www.project-audio.net/ That site has all the manuals on it - I got one for my TT in English. Cant remember if there was much on the arm other than moving that stupid fishing wire weight thing for different cartridges. I think mine told me to put it on the middle ring of the 3 available. I think its the anti-skate device or something. Anyway I will check what I have at home in the manuals drawer. If anything comes up I will let you know.

Wow Jazman, That list sure is different from my take. So logically you are saying I would get a better reward looking to replace the table rather than the surrounding components huh. That puts a cat amongst the pigeons for sure!! Now what?

I dont think your choice is going to have much to do with sound. You chose the LaScala's for a reason, partying mainly it seems and that has now changed. AS I understand it your new house is not big enough for the full setup with the LaScalas and it seems you want surround sound - not stereo. If it were me, painful as it may seem, I would take the practical approach and go for what suites your current needs rather than something that might be usable if and when you move in a couple of years. One question though. Would it not be possible to simply cancel the order and then have the freedom to choose any system rather than keeping the order going to swap for a very specific system. On the other hand if you like the German option - go for it.

My TT is ripe for an upgrade or 2: AS most of you probably know currently I have the Project RPM 4 TT with the Project 9 arm and the Project K4 head matched to the project phono stage (the PhonoBox). Whilst this tears to shreds the sound from my digital sources I am well aware that better sound is out there in the wild world of analogue. Tony (my long suffering audiophile friend) is driving me nuts to move up in the world. He is big on this MC cartridge kick and recommends I go that route along with upgrading the phono stage and potentially the arm as well. Now I am all for a play so here is what I am thinking: Buy the Denon 103 or 110 MC cartridge (similar units but the 110 has higher output I understand), choose a phono stage and keep the arm and table as is for now. Questions are as follows: 1. Are either the 103 or the 110 a good match for the Pro-ject 9 arm? 2. What phono stages would be worth considering with either of these cartridges? 3. If I were to also upgrade the arm what would be a good choice, the Pro-ject 9c? Something else? Potential candidates I have identified for the phono stage are the Creek and the Project Phonobox SE. The problem is that nether seem to set the world alight with praise, but, on the other hand, I have no wish to match a much more expensive stage to what is, afterall, a rather budget TT in the first place. My final questions are with regard to my assumptions. I am assuming that the order of impact on sound of upgrades is: 1. the Cartridge. 2. The phono Stage. 3. The arm. 4. The TT itself. Is this correct?

Now that is a bit more like it Justin. That is what we were expecting to hear the first time. At least it puts pay to the myth that all amps sound the same!!! I think that before you start hunting out tubes you might want to consider a better source!!! I wont say vinyl I promise - maybe a slightly better Cd player???

Yes Kelly - you have indeed stressed the ear as the primary means of selecting all things audio, I never said you didn't. I can sense the disapproval in your tone, however, for the fact that I have not taken the time to find out how all this stuff actually works. You are probably right that I would get more out of this hobby if I understood more of the technicalities but for me the whole electronics issue is so subservient to the actual listening to music thing I just find it gets in the way. I dont mind looking at amps in the company of an expert who can explain what the verious bits do but short of building up my own collection of electronic parts I dont see that getting me to the point where I can discuss the relative sonic merits of one capacitor over another. I suppose setting up a cartridge probably isnt that hard - if you have the proper tools (which I never do for any job). The idea of me attacking a cartridge with my swiss army knife doesnt inspire confidence somehow. Better to let experts do it - show me in the process, fine, but keep my thumbs (all 10 of them) well away from delicate equipment.

And the options you would recommend me looking at are.....??? Come on Kelly - I need all the help I can get here. Tony has suggested a stage that costs $2000!!! Its handbuilt in Germany. He says it is the best he has ever heard but its kinda out of the price range I was thinking of.

Wow - the Pro-ject 9 - that's my arm!!! Adjusting the VTA is very easy on this arm. You call the man that sold it to you and he comes over and does it. Then he checks the weight on the cartridge on a tiny scale thing - turns a screw here, a widget there - pronounces it spot on takes some money and leaves. Then you get some friends over who know a thing or 2 about such things and they verify what he did - old rubber mat from Sony TT notwithstanding. On the original subject of this thread I have discovered that this non-felt gizmo sticks to records far better than it sticks to platters. Every time Tony changes a record he has to stop the TT - realign the mat (which aint that easy with the big hole) - place a record on the TT - restart the motor and finally play the album - all told a 1 to 2 minute interuption in the music. Say what you will about my Sony Rubber mat - but I can lift records off and replace them without ever stopping the TT - and they never slip during play! At the weekend I am going to try out Tony's non-felt. I have the feeling this in not something I can live with and the additional wear and tear on the motor worries me. And we still havent got to the static issue. The felt mat used to charge up like a capacitor. Change 2 records and I looked like sparky the clown, plus the static also stuck the thing to my records requiring similar antics to the above that Tony goes through every time.

Erik, Thanks for the kind words. Choosing by listening aint really a choice issue for me - it is all I have to go by!! As for the speed of the last octave do you mean the last octave that the amps/speakers play or the actual last octave? If you mean the actual last octave then that is something I will not experience for 2 reasons: 1. The speakers only go down to 50 Hz (and then with a big maybe). 2. Everything below 50 Hz (and a bit above) is pumped out to the REL Strata 3 sub which has its own in-built amp. Using the above I get what I consider to be an approximation of bi-amping (in effect rather than in actuality). In order for this to work I had to find a musical sub - the REL was the only one I found (although I never got to play with SVS which some members of this board adore). I am thinking that even if the SET amp proves weaker in the bass department I will be able to adjust the sub accordingly and mask its weaknesses such as they may be. Therefore the introduction of the SET amp and its success or otherwise will be determined by 3 primary factors other than pure musicality. 1. The hnadling of the highs 2. The Handling of the mids 3. The effect on soundstage and image. As far as I can see from reading the posts of others who have already moved to set amplification these are the 3 areas that SET is supposed to excel in. Hopefully I will find out at the end of the month.

John, That is what I asked for. He replied, as you can see, that his phono stage is designed for MM only. He also added that he can build something for me so I will wait till the high end show later this month in Athens to see him face to face and discuss the options. Worst case scenario I will have to look at existing manufacturers - I hear good things about Creek phono stages - may give one of those a whirl. Seems the combo of tubes and MC is tricky in the stage itself.

Mike, "I do most of my serious listening at 100 - 105db" I hope you do not do that for prolonged periods. I had a table kicking around somewhere with guidelines on spl and ear damage and from what I remember more than an hour or so a day exposure to that level will cause permanent damage. Maybe you should go set if only to protect your ears...

Proj, I am not against them and I have heard them (not the big ones in the picture - the Duo's) at the high end show in Athens last year. They do indeed sound very nice but there was something going on between the woofer and the horns that didnt quite work. It was a tonal change that meant the bass seemed somehow remote from the rest of the sound. The fact that there was a pair of KHorns playing in a room nearby made the comparison interesting, if a little dangerous with different front ends and room sizes. Overall it convinced me that maybe there is something to this folded horn design for bass afterall. As it happens I noticed that their site refers to the woofer as being all new. I wonder if I heard an older version as no-one else who has heard them echos my observations.

I asked a series of questions and these are the answers: 1.I am sorry for this but we believe that the solid state rectificaton for this circuit is the most appropriate because we can used verylarge capacitors and the power supply to behave like a constant voltage, i respect the opinion of your friend but we can analyse these phenomana in the Hi-End Exbithion in detail. Well so much for that. I'll just take the thing as it is and play later. 2.We can talk about the athina but after and after many installation that we used the athina the output was very satisfied. He is refering to the line filter/isolator. I am going to get one. 3.The solid state Phono is avaliable, the tube phono willl be avaliable about at the end of the December. Both of them are Mouving Magnet.We can suggest of course if you like some catriges. This is a disappointment. Means I still have to hunt down a phono stage if I want to go MC.

HornEd, You are both one of the reasons I feel guilty moving away from Klipsch speakers and one of the reasons I plan to stay active on this forum. As for your need for exercise I would imagine the spl you can generate from your multi KLF setup could give you quite a workout.... Sorry to hear you have been unwell - hope to hear how much better you are doing in the near future. All the best. Max

So Solid state is a beautiful woman and SET is a potholder... Somehow the analogies dont help. But seriously, in about a month I am going to join you in this SET thing and then find out for myself about the joys of holding pots. Interestingly, and reading between the lines, the bass issue of SET may be something I wont suffer from. The sub has been filling in for absent bass for so long (initially with the Heresies and latterly with the Sansui's) that I think it will just continue the job. It may require some adjustment in the crossover but I am fully expecting it to immunize my system from this lack of body. Good post though - enjoyed reading it immensely.

I must say I too find that Headphones do not do it for me. This is a real disappointment as with the baby I am very limited on volume most of the time on the main system. Some time ago Tony got my a pair of Stax headphones which are supposed to be amongst the best there are. I played with them for sometime and just couldnt get used to them. In the end I semi-premanently lent them to another friend who loves them and uses them constantly. Ah well - at least they aren't lying in a cupboard forgotten.