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First "compromise" is NOT a value judgment. It's a choice.
Second, there is a reason PWK named them "Heresy." They represent a compromise from his cardinal points for cost and size.
While I understand why PWK named them Heresy, I don't think it really fits. As long as a designer fully understands these points and deviates from them with good reason...size and cost being good reason...it's a good thing.
Jubs are also "Heresy" in the same way. They deviate both in terms of cost and size from the Klipschorn, and since they were from PWK himself, we can rest assured he did so for good reason. Jub owners are likely to agree.
Dave
I second all that. plus+++++++
I have lost count of the number of friends of mine who bought Heresy over the last 37 years after hearing my LaScala. They happily choose the babies of the Klipsch range.
Place Heresy into corners and they are superior to a very many speakers of considerably larger dimension.
My Dad had a stroke and to simplify things for Mum I removed my Marantz 1200B from their system and connected the Heresy to the speaker terminals on their TV @ 2 watts per channel. Along with the Blue Ray, I connected the CD, cassette deck, VCR directly to the TV and the Heresy make it all possible.
I'm a Jub Owner and agree
Here is a pic of a new 140db subwoofer during construction under a stage floor, that's in a system we finished last Thursday. While to some of my friends I'm a self confessed propeller head, I would have no reservation in having only a pair of any Heresy as my main system if that's what was most appropriate for my circumstances.
Holy crap! The whole floor is a sub! Carl, are you seeing this??
This is inside the driver chamber which is a set of three 18" 800watt drivers on a triangular prism manifold which you can see in the other photo. The horn flare is 7m long with a 7m wide mouth.
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This is the mouth onto the sunken dance floor
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Yeah, I have seen it. Pretty crazy stuff. Never thought of a built up floor in a high ceiling room to be used as a sub. In the case of the previous poster, it was a stage. Pretty clever. I wonder if I could turn my THT into a full horn using that method. Talk about gain! I would need 38' more horn length.
Your THT is a full Horn here is a set of three THT LP I modified a bit as a under floor experiment.
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First "compromise" is NOT a value judgment. It's a choice.
Second, there is a reason PWK named them "Heresy." They represent a compromise from his cardinal points for cost and size.
While I understand why PWK named them Heresy, I don't think it really fits. As long as a designer fully understands these points and deviates from them with good reason...size and cost being good reason...it's a good thing.
Jubs are also "Heresy" in the same way. They deviate both in terms of cost and size from the Klipschorn, and since they were from PWK himself, we can rest assured he did so for good reason. Jub owners are likely to agree.
Dave
I second all that. plus+++++++
I have lost count of the number of friends of mine who bought Heresy over the last 37 years after hearing my LaScala. They happily choose the babies of the Klipsch range.
Place Heresy into corners and they are superior to a very many speakers of considerably larger dimension.
My Dad had a stroke and to simplify things for Mum I removed my Marantz 1200B from their system and connected the Heresy to the speaker terminals on their TV @ 2 watts per channel. Along with the Blue Ray, I connected the CD, cassette deck, VCR directly to the TV and the Heresy make it all possible.
I'm a Jub Owner and agree
Here is a pic of a new 140db subwoofer during construction under a stage floor, that's in a system we finished last Thursday. While to some of my friends I'm a self confessed propeller head, I would have no reservation in having only a pair of any Heresy as my main system if that's what was most appropriate for my circumstances.
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Should have read that more carefully 3 years ago then!
Cool, something to try anyway.
Not your fault, the placement instructions were poorly written IMHO.
This is a link to the BF site with photo's of my 1st experiment. It starts from the final installation and works backwards. You can see how the mouth is positioned 18" (out from the corner of the room), Note that there are 3 ways to achieve this. In this is case the speaker is wall mounted and pointing down towards the floor. The walls are brick and the floor concrete with carpet.
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You will get more out of the 684's when you relieve them of below 70hz. The 684's become faster as the ports are not doing anything. Be careful of your ears with the transients. Wearing ear plugs has become the norm at my friends hotel, lol. It's the feel of the music that blows people away and has them talking, though, I find it necessary to leave the room for a body break as continually being squashed make you tired.
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I'm using Chrome and I don't know what I'm missing if it's not compatible. I have not had any issues.
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OK read the whole thread finally had skimmed it a few times in the last couple of years
BUT now that I'm gonna build 2 THT Low Profile come this spring I thought it best to read it all ,
what great work from all the different builds , Peter what a great thread & a Great build
the Stanley's are just too pricey for me & the L P THT will work for the living room better in my case
I love my SVS cylinders but I want a bass horn
can you say more about how that miniDSP works ?
Personally, I prefer the Dayton RSS390HF-4 15" aluminium cone driver. It's cleaner than the other recommended driver DVC385-88. The Rss390HF-4 was reproducing Cymbals rather well when I played music through it during breakin. I did not expect anything much above 800hz. The DVC385-88 is more sensitive but not as clean. The THT LP were all built in 24" wide 1/2 the width of a sheet of plywood except for a pair I built in 16" wide 1/3 the width of a sheet of plywood. For these 16" wide I used the RSS315HF-4 12" aluminum Cone Driver and they are also very clean.
In 15", I have built a single a set of three and a set of two so as to experiment with the combined mouth sizes. The 7th & 8th were the pair of 12". The 12" pair are 16"x18" mouths, so you can add them together to create a combined 32"x18" mouth or a 16"x36" mouth. Currently they are set up as 16"x36" mouth and pointing at the ceiling with one wall on the 16" edge. When listening from the 16" edge performance is not wonderful. When listening from the 36" edge performance is fantastic. They are matched with my LaScala and I very much like the result. They have the LaScala clarity that goes out below you hearing when there is low bass in the recording. They don't invent there own bass like many other sub woofers that just woof woof woof. The THT LP are not boring they become essential. I like the shape 6' long as it's easy to place and point into a corner from any direction.
I have finished my experimenting now and at the moment I intend for my Jubilee LFE to build a pair of 24"x18" with the RSS390HF-4 15" drivers and stack the along the back wall into the back left corner under the stair case 36"x24" mouth shape. The stairs are to be altered to be minimal and remove the risers having only the treads and stringers with two triangular treads in the corner then three treads to the floor.
I trust this experience is useful in assisting with your choice.
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I tried placing the THT up front, sideways, to mimick the response I might get from moving it up front. Not good. The blue line is
back-of-room placement (with EQ removed) and the green line is
front-of-room. (XO on receiver set to 200 Hz; main speakers unplugged)
Would room treatment fix the huge loss from 30 to 50 Hz? What kind?
I am about to (finally) put in my suspended ceiling, so I'll need to try
this again when it's done. But the ceiling is already filled with 6
inches of Roxul so i don't expect much change.
From my understanding this issue will be related to the location of the mouth in the room relative to the distance from reflective surfaces that cause certain wavelengths to cancel at certain positions in the room and only stopping the occurrence of the reflection can resolve this.
Or move the mouth.
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Sorry for the mess of typos, Siri thinks shes knows what your typing better than you do.
Siri is two timing you, she takes shorthand for so many people no wonder she mixes things up, call me john the other day, how rude...
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I had two KPT-684 (dual 18" Klipsch subs) powered by a Yamaha P7000S amp connected to my 6 LaScalas, and the sound just wasn't right. I simply couldn't make it work! Those subs will rattle your teeth and are way louder than the THT's (powered by a Crown XLS-202) they replaced.
Now I have the THT's put back, and the sound is seamless. Frankly it sounds as though the LaScalas can hit 22Hz. It is a complete different quality.
In a friends hotel as an experiment, I built three THTLP with Dayton DVC 15" kevlar drivers to operate as subwoofers below four KPT-684. They are packed together to make a mouth 24" high 54" wide. The low end is now ridiculous. Just the way we like it. Using a bridged Yamaha P4500 nominal 12ohm. crossover 70hz to the 684 then 110hz to eight KP-362's.
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Hello,
I am currently in the process of putting together a nice set up for two different areas of my home. The first is my living area, the second is my pool house. I want something that is both visually striking and powerful sounding for the living area. For the pool house I just want something that sounds nice with good low's. I would prefer to not need a sub woofer in the pool house and don't mind a sub woofer in the living area. I think I may know what I'd like for the living area but am pretty undecided for the rec room/pool house. In the living area I am planning on mounting all surround/side speakers to the wall. In the pool house there are 4 shelves I will be placing the speakers on that are relatively high in the room. The pool house is 20 by 34 and the living room is 25 by 18.
Living area idea...
A Sony STR DA2800 ES Reciever- http://discover.store.sony.com/ES/receivers/STR-DA2800ES.html
Klipsch WF35 Front - http://www.klipsch.com/wf-35-floorstanding-speaker/details
Klipsch WC24 Center - http://www.klipsch.com/wc-24-center-speaker/details
Klipsch WS24 Sorrounds - http://www.klipsch.com/ws-24-surround-speaker/details
For the side speakers I am torn on using additional WS24's or possibly WB14's. http://www.klipsch.com/wb-14-bookshelf-speaker/details
Pool house idea...
One of the less expensive speakers from the THX line up on all 4 shelves paired with a Sony STR DA 1800 ES. http://discover.store.sony.com/ES/receivers/
LaScala are visually striking and powerful. Then there is the Khorn and the Jubilee.
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Here is a picture of an Academy with a reworked motorboard to turn the tweeter horizontal. Much improved off axis responce. I kept the tweeter a bit higher to help with the comb filtering although I can't say that I noticed it before the change. I did the same thing to a KLF-10 with favorible results. I do like the idea of the shorter cabinet as well.
In my opinion for when you must have a centre speaker the MTM format is a great option.
Last year I set up a 128 seat cinema the room 40'by40' with a pair of cinema Jubilee for left and right and the KPT-4350 flying above the screen for centre.
There is also a live stage in front of the screen so the LFE had to go on a shelf above the screen.
I experimented with this setup for and entire day, learning, what was possible.
In this case with 3way Jubilee, I used an Allen & Heath iDR8 10 channels in and out, with the OPPO Blue Ray driving the iDR8.
For my home system, Jubilee 2way, I will be using an Ashly NE8800 8 channels in and out to drive the amplifiers with the OPPO same same.
The point is:- I did not actually need the centre speaker. I created a "Virtual" Centre speaker in the centre of the screen by routing the centre channel into both the left and right Jubilee with a -3db gain reduction since there is two speakers rather than just one playing centre channel in this case.
With the iDR8 and NE8800 and input can be routed to any output via the central matrix. Each configuration can be saved as a preset and recalled at the touch of a button for endless A/B comparisons. They include crossovers, time alignment, EQ, level matching, whatever.
This was my plan for home and I had the opportunity to experiment with the Jubilee in corners 40' apart on either side of the screen.
The result was simply "Exquisite".
I blind tested all this on whoever was available and the virtual centre was the clear winner. Full Panavision Audio from invisible speakers. The soundscape extended out past the width of the Jubilee as if there were no speakers.
I reckon proper corner placement of your main left and right and creating a virtual centre has the advantage of simple room treatments as there are less sound sources causing complex reflections and impeding your sound scape.
I reckon a awesome home system does not need a receiver and has a speaker in each corner plus a LFE. That's 5 point sources which provides a completely effective triangulation for placing a virtual sound anywhere into the room.
To include more channels causes more unwanted room reverb and diminishing the systems potential.
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Isn't this where Duke is supposed to chime in...?Children and/or a long stick.
lol....Miss that guy around here too.
Bruce
Super models in bathing suits would work just as well as children.
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I just don't know how in the world I'd fit two horn loaded subs in my room! That SVS is already pushing the size limits for me but I'd like to check that out sometime. I'm convinced that I'm not going to bother with one sub again. It will definitely be a pair. I want 2 channel... top to bottom!
It's really personal, I don't like ported direct radiator subs, while many people prefer them.
For myself they are adding extra bass that's not there and it's late.
In my opinion the Tuba LP that's the long 6 foot version standing on it's end behind each LaScala is the way to go.
They can be built in 18" x 16" foot print which is a sheet of ply sliced into thirds to make the panels and fitted with the Dayton Reference Series 12" Alloy Cone driver they are a nice match for the LaScala.
They can be positioned in the corner behind the LaScala mouth down raised 18" above the floor. The sound comes out around the sides and over the top of the LaScala and gives easy toe in adjustment for the LaScala.
I built a pair for my LaScala and they have the same spacious qualities the LaScala bass horn has and only produce low bass when there is low bass. I have time aligned the system with the Ashly NE8800 using 4 ART SLA-2 amps. It was an experiment to see how the 12" driver version compared to the 15" version. I have used both the Dayton DVC 15" and the Dayton Reference series 15" Alloy cone driver and my favourite is the 15" Alloy Cone Reference Series which reproduce clean cymbals and other high frequencies during break in testing even though they are sub woofers.
They are a much better match when compared to the KP-480's.
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Best regards for a quick recovery and yes electric is the go.
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We just have audio out there right now, but when the theatre room gets a new projector I planned to move the old one to the garage. Wasn't really for the drive in feel. For some reason our neighborhood has a thing with entertaining in the driveways, weekends look like a block party during football season.
Then when you spill into the roadway and all the driveways blend into one, that's something. On Australia Day "The Aussie Ute" (pickup) can become a spa pool with some heavy duty plastic sheeting in the back. Since no one can drive anywhere it makes it useful.
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we enjoy it, but it baffles friends when they come over with all the devices that control everything in the house. I tell them just to shoot their music over to the tv or the garage and they pull up the list for airplay and usually say something like holy $>|>£\. I took an Apple TV over to a friends house Saturday to help him get his windows audio onto his Bose system without running wires. Downloaded airfoil and the apple remote app, and now he's hooked. He went into his photo editor and made some football schedules and cookout menus to scroll on the tv during football season before the games. Now hes wanting a floating waterproof case for his iphone for the pool. I don't think I'm getting that Apple TV back.Wow McMIRA. Sounds like you have a sweet whole house audio setup there
That's a great idea having a drive in theatre in your garage, just drive in roll back the top. I would be a great chick magnet if you also had a starlight roof in the garage and also a candy bar or a dinner.
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Sounds like yours were lucky back in the 70's. One of my "original" K33's turned into a 6inch woofer that just made a clicking noise as it flicked the rest of the cone. We got lazy that night and left the Bass Guitar rig in the car and just ran the bass DI into the mixer. I was sooo lucky the Australian distributor replaced both under warranty and said don't do it again. [
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In Australia, it's buy 1 pay double with Apple. they charge double the price for music on itunes as you do in US. They the say it's due to customs and handling etc. But get real it's on line who has to handle the electrons.
My antique early 2011 Google nexus s Phone can play all the wav files stored on it via WiFi into my circa 1975 Stereo which is now called a 2 channel. My Msi netbook does the same.
So if all my non Apple friends play all the movies or internet "whatever" through their HD TV's in 3D and have been doing that for ages, why do you need "the new" Apple TV other than the Apple marketing told you you need to buy it and pay double.
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Well, that was a big part of it, but there's more -- the problematic Airbus cockpit and control stick design (!), for one thing. This CBS report is excellent IMO: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-33816_162-57587193/air-france-flight-447s-lessons-four-years-later/The Air France crew showed awful incompetence in managing a simple stall, and I'm not sure that cockpit complexity had much to do with it.
If it's not a Boeing I'm not going...
A Buss should stay on the ground...
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I did get that, but you did us all a favor by just being there. Please have Peter keep us posted on developments with these unique an wonderful speakers.I wish I had something to do with getting them built but I did not. In fact Peter Skinner provide all the data for the post and he commisioned the speakers. He just used my site as a place to post the info once completed.
Thanks for providing not just a platform for Peter, but for your other interesting posts. Especially those human interest pieces on Friday.
I second that. Fascinating again. I get totally drawn into your site for countless hours having to drag myself away as I realize the sun is coming up and I have not been to bed.[Y]
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You can't write things like this... lol...
How do we know that KTVU actually rang the correct number?
Did they actually speak with someone at the NTSB?
If they got your number by mistake? what would you say if you thought it was one of your friends having a lend of you? hahaha
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If people actually measured what they used...
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lol....
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Are Heresy's always a compromise?
in 2-Channel Home Audio
Posted
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the Pic