jjennings2510

Alright. Honestly I think the phase wasn't detected bc I don't have an onscreen setup. I have an Onkyo 507.....It was the first venture I made upgrading my HTiB system. So I thought AVRs really put out the wattage they said and I didn't think I would ever go the separates route etc. So I got the 507. Now this was also before I started using Amazon. I've always used ebay for stuff but at the time the ebay prices were around the same as store prices. Got the 507 for $300 while the 607 was $250 more in the store. Well I didn't think I needed preouts etc so I said screw it. Of course a few months later I see the 607 for a few bucks more on Amazon......then I decided to start building my system with the speakers that really impressed me when I heard them play during a store movie night (Klipsch) and so on and so forth. After that point I started researching things and saw its always good to go higher. Even if you don't think you will use the features. The 507 is an entry level AVR. A great unit though for a bedroom system. But it has no preouts, no onscreen setup and the basic Audessey so I'm guessing thats why it didn't detect the phase issue. Good news is I still love the AVR and it will be going in the bedroom. Bad news is basic stuff such as phase isn't detected. But I still feel as though the basic Audessey is still great. With me being a noob it was very easy to use and had my system sound great at the time....but now that I'm into manual setup it sounds even better. Now once I finish the front and run the setup on a processor that has Audessey MultiXT 32 then that'll be a true test IMHO since it uses a more advanced setup system. I'll expect it to detect phase etc. So I am baffled that the system didn't know I had 3 out of phase speakers BUT not surprised.....

I'm not sure why either. I just figured it was because the speakers are so efficient? When I had my Sony bookshelfs and other cheap speakers it calibrated all of them correctly. Each speaker had varying levels. As I said my system sounded good. I was just surprised to see everything at -12. The lowet level you can set on the AVR. As far as phase nope it gave me no indication that they were out of phase. I mean they were still working so idk. Maybe it only gives errors when the speakers don't give any sound at all? And I would check the connections but I also have a bird's nest of wires behind my entertainment center. So its gonna be a hassle to pull out my AVR. I may eventually check but I mean I did what the tests said do and I def had two different sequences of sounds that corrected once I switched the wires. Its possible tho that I may have switched 3 speakers by accident. I've been swapping out stuff so much and I'm always anxious to hook up new speakers so maybe I did switch the wires. Idk. But for now I am satisfied. And I def agree on the levels. People like different things. My cave is small and cozy so I didn't have to tweak any levels after I set them to 85db. My surrounds are pretty close so they're already loud enough for me. But I like to feel explosions so I turned up my sub a little more. Different strokes for different folks. Nonetheless I'm satisfied. Everything sounds better. My soundstage is better and my center has never sounded crisper. Even on low volume now I can still clearly hear it without using "night" modes. But as I said I don't know if its bc of phase or bc I turned up the levels or a mixture of both. But I'm done blabbing. And this may sound like a dumb question but what is ES? A sound mode?

I want a separate 2 ch system as well but luckily it will be in a different area. But I think my system got "messed up" because I was constantly changing out speakers and upgrading. Thats why I'm trying to wait until I get everything before I tackle the system up front. I only want to set it up once compared to the numerous time the cave has been setup. But there is nothing wrong with double checking your system one day when you feel like it! The phase tests and levels are pretty quick to check. Now if you actually have to tweak then thats a different story, lol. But you can't blame it on me 100%......I'm sure you've been thinking about messing with the system for awhile now. HT guys are constant tweakers!

Wow I love that look! That definitely made the 82s look way better! Definitely put the thought in my head too! What are the steps needed to paint the speakers? Is there a certain type of glossy paint that was used? Is it easy for anyone to do? I def wish Klipsch had something like that direct from the factory. Their vinyl reference speakers are a little blah but their real wood veneers I love. Epecially cherry! But nonetheless hopefully there will be a process listed soon or maybe the guy can start painting cabinets in bulk and selling them?

It would probably even sound better with the audessey setting everything now that there in phase. I like the manually way like you did, it's a wonder the audessey didn't have a problem with the phase being messed up. Thats the same thing I was thinking but I'm too scared to mess up my hard earned settings! lol. I don't want it to reset all of my speakers to -12db. I guess I could write everything down. And as far as the phase goes I'm surprised too. Maybe the more advanced Audessey systems such as Audessey MultiXT 32check phase? Or maybe they don't. Not sure. But I mean it set it up the best it could. They were working and sounded good, lol. But yes it sounds way better now. I'm a manual guy too now but as I said I will still use Audessey as a starting point and go from there. I'm just sad my system up front won't be finished for awhile. Which means my trusty sound meter will start collecting dust. I hate it when my gadgets collect dust!

Yes its worth it and its good to double check everything to be sure its running the best that it can. I still can't believe 3 out of 5 speakers were out of phase

Alright guys, so its been a long week of work for me. I'm still building up my main sitting area system. I purchased some RF-25s as surrounds for the 7s but I haven't heard them yet because I need a new receiver. I purchased an Integra 2ch amp that puts out 100wpc and let me tell you it really made the 7s come alive! Unfortunately my receiver doesn't have preouts so right now the amp is hooked up directly to my tv but even so it sounds way better than my receiver. I plan on getting some Parasound amps for the 7s and 25s up front and moving the Integra amp to the mancave to power the 82s. So I just want to thank you guys for causing me more money and making me curious as to how good floorstanders sound as surrounds. But enough about that. Let me get to the real reason I am posting this. I decided I would manually setup the mancave system so I could see how much of a difference it would make compared to Audessey. So I purchased an analogue sound level meter, a tripod, and measuring tape. Well everything came in a couple of weeks ago but today is the first time I actually felt like using it. Now I've always had a calibration DVD (Avia II) for setting up my TVs but I never used the audio features since I didn't have a meter. Well first I ran the phase tests and believe it or not my surrounds were out of phase as well as my center! Only the Left and Right main were correct. Then I went through the level tests and calibrated everything to the 85db reference level. The needle didn't exactly stay on 85 but it was close enough. Moving just a little. Then I checked the speaker distances and Audessey was right on. Well after I finished setting up my system I turned on a movie and WOW! I thought my system sounded good before. Well somehow it rose to a new level! I think part of it has to do with the phase and I also think it has something to do with the levels. With Klipsch being so sensitive it set all of my speakers at -12db. Well after calibrating everything my system sounds even better. Everything sounds a lot clearer. Even my center. The clarity rose to all new levels! I definitely can't wait until the system up front is finished. I want to hear some properly setup 7s! Now I understand what you guys mean. Demos of speaker systems depends on how well the system is setup. I know its common sense but I didn't realize just how much of a difference it would make! Especially phase. My speakers were still working. It sounded good and I could've sworn I made sure I matched the polarity but I guess not! I think I'll manually setup my systems from now on.....with the help of Audessey of course. Audessey does a great job but tweaking makes it even better. While running the tests I found out I had to turn my sub up! Nothing wrong with more bass. So this weekend should be great! Get to enjoy my movies even more which i didn't think was possible. I know you vets have been doing this for years but to all the newbs out there. Invest in a sound meter and a calibration disc. Of course calibrating the tv makes a huge difference BUT the experience will be complete once you take the time to manually setup your sound too! Of course the automated systems will get you started. I use Avia II which is a great DVD. A ton of audio and video tests to run but there are other ones available on Amazon that are on Blu Ray. So I think I'm finished with the mancave now. I know I've said that numerous times but I won't make anymore tweaks until I move the Integra amp back here. Anyways I'm about to go back to enjoying the playoffs! Have a great night guys!

Agreed. Get whichever one is a better deal to you. Pro amps do offer the best bang for the buck but they don't quite fit in with most HT decor. lol. Pro amps are usually smaller than consumer grade amps because they usually have actuve cooling fans compared to consumer amps which usually just have huge heatsinks. I know you said you didn't have anywhere to put the QSC but I actually think its smaller than the Parasound (I'll have to doublecheck) but either way you will have plenty of power. Right now I'm temporarily using an Integra 2ch amp that pushes 140wpc to drive my 7s and I can get no where near the max level of the amp...otherwise I would be deaf. So I can confirm that you'll probably never really push the amp to capacity. But as others have stated you can never have too much power. Your ears will give out before your equipment does.

I have to agree. I don't think it'll be 100% timbre matched but it'll be close enough. I use a RC-35 matched with RF-82s and the sound is actually pretty seamless and the system sounds amazing. So I think the generations are pretty close in sound. Now I do agree that in order to get the sound as perfect as possible you will probably want to stay in the same family but I think you'll be fine. Don't think the 64 II will detract from your soundstage Now as far as which speakers to get. Both speakers are available to you at pretty good prices. I've never heard the 83s before but I do have the 7s and let me tell you they are amazing! You will not be disappointed with them! I don't know if they are worth the extra $1000. Only your ears can decide but I know they blow away everything else I've heard. Can't wait to hear your opinion on them! Worst case scenario if you decide to go with the 83s and if for some reason you don't like the way they sound with the 64 II then you can sell the 64 II and buy the original 64. Unfortunately you will probably only be able to find it used but you will probably end up coming out ahead. Ebay does have authorized sellers that say they can get you any Klipsch speaker so they may still have some original 64s new in the box.

You guys who have 5 monster speakers impress me! I keep trying to squeeze in bigger speakers but I'm out of space.....I know that system has to sound amazing! Good luck on finding what you need!

Same here. I also got RF-7 fronts and RF-5s for surround. In addition, I still got RS-7 for second set of surrounds. Admittedly, that is one nice thing about the Denon that I currently have is that I can hook up "A" surrounds (the RF-5s) and "B" surrounds (the RS-7s). Thus when listening to music, I can switch to the RF-5s, but for watching TV or movies, I can switch to the RS-7s. Got the best of both worlds there! Oh thats pretty cool! Is there a name for that feature? Is it called A and B surrounds? Is it a 7.1 amp with assignable amp sections or is it truely A and B surrounds? I was just wondering because that sounds really convenient. Do you know if other brands have that feature?

Nah go ahead and get another set of 7 IIs! Enjoy them enough for the both of us. I don't have the room for another set of 7s but I may be able to swing a set of 62s or 82s as surrounds to replace my 61s..... But yes these guys do not help at all. Especially with me being new to the home theater game I'm very curious and after hearing people rave on about stuff I have to try it! lol.

Unfortunately you'll have to upgrade the receiver again if you ever want to add amps. Zone 2 preouts are only used if you want to add an amp and speakers to anotherarea of your house such as another room or your patio etc. Zone 2 will basically allow you to listen to something totally different from what is playing in the "main" room (the room with the receiver) So you can watch a movie in the main room and play a cd for the second room or "zone". Cool feature to have especially if you entertain alot or if you ever plan on putting speakers out on your patio. But unfortunately those preouts will be of no use for powering your 5 main speakers. Most companies generally only put full 7.1 preouts on their upper midrange and high end units. But I wouldn't worry too much. Get everything setup and see how it sounds. If you're happy then you're done. If you do ever decide to get bigger speakers and you feel you need more power then you can just get a higher end receiver and then you can move the denon to the bedroom or mancave etc so it won't be a complete loss.......if all of that is too much trouble then Crutchfield does have a return policy so you can ship it back, get a refund and upgrade.

Very cool. I know the reviews on some projectors said it was a hassle to adjust the pic bc part of it was off of the screen on some content. So I thought it involved a lot of manual adjustment. But you made it look so easy....thanks for proving me wrong LOL. Very cool though on a serious note. As far as the screen goes I know you said you wanted a pull down screen reference_head. Did you want a manual pulldown or motorized? (sorry if you posted that and I missed it)

Tell me about it! But thats Klipsch in general. Even my 61s had some of my stuff sounding terrible. But once i upped the quality of the source then everything sounded perfect! Oan I wish the 7s had something similar to 83s fire breathing monster thing too. If they did I would try to get the slogan blown up to poster size just so I could hang it on the wall behind the 7s. That pic of the 83s looks awesome. But yes I think Wall of Sound fits the 7s.

very true. I didn't mean to put an age and say only young people downloaded MP3s.....I just meant the culture today is different and I just wanted to try and give a perspective on why my generation is not really into the hifi thing like young people were years ago. Yes there are a lot of people that don't care about the quality of music but I also feel there are a lot of people who care.....they just don't know what their missing. Because as I stated earlier we don't really have the same culture now that we did years ago. It is about convienience and wanting stuff now. Not only that but with very few workers out there that actually wanna take the time to explain the differences and show you what you are missing the customer usually just picks up a HTiB system and calls it a day. Nothing wrong with that. But it sucks bc a lot of people never realize what they're missing. Some won't care....others may care....and others will be disappointed when they finally do realize what they've been missing. I know another poster said there are a lot more formats etc nowadays but I feel like you had so many choices back in the day too. Between equalizers and tone arms for the turntables and better needles etc. Stuff I still don't know too much about nowadays. lol. I could argue that it may actually be easier nowadays to get info about stuff compared to back in the day. I mean we still have audio magazines etc but we also have the internet.....at home...on our phones. So you could actually do minor research on stuff while you're in the store.....of course that is too much trouble for some and too complicated for others but I don't really see that being any different than back then. But I understand all of your points. Its very interesting seeing everyone's point of view. We can all agree on one thing though. We enjoy our systems and while we may agree to disagree on some topics we can agree that we're all working towards that one goal. Building that perfect home theater. Some have reached it. Some will never reach it, lol. Some have almost reached it. Nonetheless I enjoy debates and thank goodness Klipsch fans are not snobs. On another forum (not saying any names) I probably would have been flamed by now. LOL. But I'm going to go back enjoying my system now.

Flat panels are immune to magnetism issues because they do not use electron beams which is the component of the tv thats affected by magnetism so yes you can do that with the Cornwall. I actually have my LCD sitting on top of my center speaker. But wow a Cornwall?? Thats a heck of a center!

Well here is my perspective of being a young person during the time when those formats were released. Nowadays young people are not that into home theater anymore unfortunately. I know I've heard lots of people telling me stories from back in the day when they would save their money from their summer jobs and allowances just to get that new HiFi set.....speakers, cassette player etc. Thats when people cared about their music quality a lot more. Of course the natural evolution was CD. Then when CDs came out I believe they caught on with young people quicker....vinyl aficionados preferred their 45s.....but eventually it became widely accepted.....even then it was still a huge thing for people to buy hifi systems. I don't think anything made a guy any happier back in the day than buying his first system.....I mean I know my dad still has his hifi system. Of course now they've upgraded to Klipsch thanks to me but his system still works. A sliver Sharp stereo receiver and Techtronics speakers (I think thats the name) He also had the cassette player and equalizer etc.....The cassette crapped out but everything else is still going strong. But back on topic. That was something everyone looked forward to. it was in the culture. Nowadays we look forward to buying our first smartphone.....our first laptop......our first video game system etc. I mean music IMHO takes a backseat to games and other entertainment. Music is a convenience thing now I believe. I mean its there in your car.....and if you just need to get away for a minute then you can whip out the Ipod or your phone and play your favorite songs.....of course MP3 does lose a lot of quality but young people rarely realize that bc we're either listening through crap headphones all of the time or we're listening on little crap bookshelf systems....(you know the all in one units) or even listening through tv speakers bc we don't have room for a bookshelf system. So people never realize just how much quality they are losing bc it sounds "similar" to the way the cd sounds....of course with crap equipment everything sorta sounds the same. When I started converting my Cds to MP3s I chose the smallest bitrate.....bc I couldn't hear a difference through my earbuds and I wanted to cram as much music as possible on my player.......so 400-500MB a cd wasn't worth it when I could cut it to 75MB a cd.......then when I finally did get a home theater system it was a cheap HTiB system....once again everything sounded good to me so no use in using loss-less or the highest bitrate. Unfortunately we don't have many local sound shops anymore. So we can't do what you guys did....go in a store....play around with the different systems....decide which sounded better etc......or build a relationship with the sales guy who knows everything and can give tips on stuff....we don't have that anymore. I mean Best Buy and HHGregg have stuff set up but the speakers that are actually hooked u are limited.....and generally they are not setup in the best way. Sometimes all 5 speakers are clustered together on the wall with a price.....sometimes they sorta have they setup right....it all depends. But when they are all clustered together then the Klipsch and Polk don't sound any better than the Sony....maybe louder....then of course with all of the racket in the stores anyway its hard to really hear the nuances of each speaker sometimes.....and then most workers don't make it any better. If you ask them to recommend a good system they steer you to the Sony or Samsung HTiB systems.....I mean I knew the speaker room had better speakers......but I never set foot back there unless a customer wanted to look back there. And even then I'm just like why would I pay $400 for a sub when the full Sony system cost $300? So with all of that being said we don't ever get to hear the true potential of those speakers unless you're lucky. I mean Magnolia stores generally do a better job at setting up stuff right but its not in every Best Buy.....and the few local shops that are left are considered "high end" shops. Two words a young person does not want to hear bc we think of outrageously priced stuff. So I know I avoided those shops like the plague.....especially with Best Buy and Circuit City folks telling me that Sony and Samsung can't really be beat.....and how they love their systems. No point in spending more than you have to right? Well I didn't get the high end fever until the night we had a movie night at the store. The home theater guys setup the full Synergy F3 system....we watched Van Helsing.....I had went to the movies and enjoyed it.....when it came out on DVD I purchased it and enjoyed it at home......but when I heard it on that system that night......it was like I was back in the movies. Wall rattling bass......awesome dynamics and effects flying around. I walked away impressed......and made it my goal to one day own a Klipsch system. Of course I couldn't believe the price of each speaker. $400 for each tower,,,,I believe another $300 or so for the center...and another couple of hundred for the surrounds...and another $400 for the sub....but even though I passed out after adding it up I knew I had to have it. But if we hadn't did the movie night then I'll still be in the dark about quality. Which leads to my point. You can't hear quality on crap equipment. With us young people never or rarely hearing a properly setup, good quality system we don't know what we're missing and we settle for what we think is good. I believe back in the day shops had more freedom with their setups....now the major players want all of their stores to have a similar feel no matter where you go so this system has to go here.....this one goes here but its only for display, don't hook it up, etc.....so we mainly buy from the recommendations of our peers.....whether its the young worker at one of the stores or one of our school friends etc. Nowadays its all about convenience. You can easily buy a MP3 player or a portable cd player. I never heard anything about portable SACD players or DVD players (unless you wanted to watch movies...of course I couldn't see myself carrying around a huge portable dvd player just for music) and listening to music on my TV? No thanks. Or on my crappy system which I thought was good. No thanks! The Cds and MP3s sound good enough and I don't have to shell out money for expensive SACD players and expensive media for SACD or DVD. Plus the selection of those formats really sucked. I honestly think we had half of a section dedicated to those formats (this was back in 2003-06...things may have changed by now) so maybe 20 different titles. Once again young people have never heard the advantages of SACD firsthand....or if they have then maybe its the lack of selection that makes it not worth the hassle. either way we just stick with the MP3 which we can put on our phone or in our pocket on a player. With me not having a quality system I tried one DVD audio disc and was sorely disappointed. Plus I hated the fact of having to listen at home. I want to listen on the go! When I'm at home I'm on the net or playing xbox or texting or doing something else that keeps me busy. Sitting down just to listen to music never really crossed my mind. But that flew out the window when I finally got a quality system and played DVD audio on it....I was blown away.....and now I'm looking into a SACD player....bc I still have not experienced a SACD firsthand. But yes now that I have quality equipment the MP3s are highly lacking and sound crappy. I'm actually debating over when I should convert my collection to loss-less. A long process I am not looking forward to plus I need to make sure I have enough space. But with music sounding so good and with me hearing the nuances i actually want to sit down and just listen to music now. But as I said on;y because I got to have that "HiFi" experience. All of my friends who have heard Klipsch have converted. One guy had an addition put on and made it into his really loud mancave lol. So i just feel like if young people can hear the differences then we will flock to the high quality formats. I mean we will still use MP3s on the go of course but at least at home I feel like we'll have those formats on the shelves. I had never heard of Klipsch before I started working at Best Buy....even when I worked there I only knew them as one of those expensive brands in the speaker room.....I didn't really research them until after that movie night. Before the movie night my ultimate dream system was a Bose Lifestyle....it sounded good in the store....had plenty of advertising talking about their technologies.....and i figured you couldn't get any better than them. Of course Klipsch blew that thought out of my head. But I know I'm not the only young person who is uneducated when it comes to home theater. I'm doing the best I can to spread the word and let people hear the differences. As more young people get into home theater I think the trend may end up being similar to back in the day....we prefer quality sound and we will be excited to bring home our first high quality system. Once you hear the differences there is no going back. So until companies can get setups similar to Bose in the stores that allow them to truly demonstrate what they're capable of then i feel like young people will continue to use MP3 for everything bc they don't know any better. I'm just glad I was lucky enough to hear quality in my early 20s (26 now) I'm done blabbing. Didn't know a better way to explain except to sorta breakdown the mindsets of most young people. My friends that I've converted were all in similar situations. Couldn't hear the differences and didn't see the point.....Look at us now. I think I'm starting to sound like a home theater snob. *turns nose up* []

I forgot to include another fact. Films are filmed in 2.35 so whenever you go to the movies....they most likely have a 2.35 screen

It all depends on the material. You can check the Blu Rays you have at the moment and see what they are filmed in. I think my collection is about 70/30....70% 2.35:1 and 30% 16:9.....if you have a 2.35 lens then those movies will show up in an even wider wide screen.....if that makes sense.....without the black bars on the top and bottom. Thats the one thing I dislike bc I have a regular 16:9 tv so all of those movies still have the black bars........BUT if the movie is filmed in the regualr 16:9 format then on a 2.35 screen you will have black bars on the left and right side of the picture.....sorta like watching a widescreen 4:3 program on a really wide tv.......if that makes sense LOL. The good news is this......they do have projectors that have switchable lenses.....some you have to manually switch.....others have motorized lenses that will switch with the push of a button. The advantage of switching lenses is the fact that you will have a picture that takes up the whole screen.....whether you watch regular 16:9 movies or 2.35 movies...... but as I said you do have to pay extra for the lenses and they can get expensive.....and if you have to manually switch them it can be a hassle to do....not to mention you don't want to scratch or break it......now one workaround with a 16:9 projector is to just expand the picture for the 2.35 movies........but once you go back to watching regualr stuff part of it will run off of the screen......and once again you most likely will have to manually mess with the lens on your projector......if you don't mind the black bars on the top and bottom then just stick with a regular unit. And as I said Blu Rays usually have the format on the back of the box.....somewhere near the rating and surround sound format.

I agree with the above recommendation. Get the biggest speakers you can afford. At least with bigger speakers if its too loud or too in your face then you can turn them down. But if you get smaller speakers and they're not loud enough then you're sorta stuck. Plus as you've heard the sound does get better with every step up IMHO......soundstage widens.....dynamics get better and the majestic sound gets bigger. So i would get the 62s as possible.....As far as the receiver goes....I've never used anything that low either.....the good thing is Harman usually has high current amps in their receivers and they're generally a little underrated so the numbers shouldn't drop too mcuh with 5 channels driven.....just a guess tho.....luckily Klipsch speakers are sensitive but as a precaution I wouldn't really try to drive the system too hard until you're able to upgrade to a bigger receiver and/or amps. I mean enjoy your system but don't drive it to the point of clipping if possible.....or you can even just listen in 2ch stereo for the time being.....

I actually think position 2 would be better. The other speaker is alread on that back wall.....even though it is up a little closer to the couch I think it would be better to have them both on the back wall....or both on a side wall....but since the balcony is there I vote for position 2......Because you can always adjust the distance, delay, level etc to make everything sound coherent on your receiver.

You got me too. I opened this up expecting to see some amazing pics and some juicy details.

Ninja Assassin is good. I really like that movie and Master and Commander because those movies both have effects that go from left to right, front to back etc and surround you and the LFE tracks are great too but they also prove how subtle your system can be. Both movies have those subtle effects and then WHAM your system springs to life on a dime and its total chaos all around you. The other movies on the list sorta give you that nonstop action which I love too of course. Black Hawk Down on Blu Ray is amazing. I had it on DVD but the HD sound is worth checking out again!

Black Hawk Down The Hurt Locker Inception Dark Knight Master and Commander Ninja Assassin Book of Eli Avatar Iron Man 1 and 2