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Shakeydeal

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Posts posted by Shakeydeal

    Driving your speakers with more power than they "need"

    in 2-Channel Home Audio

    Posted

    So I haven’t listened to my EL84 amp in quite a while. I put it in last weekend and it sounded so good I left it in for a while. 
     

    For a minute there I questioned the money spent on the more expensive 300B amp. So last night I put it back in. It didn’t take long to hear the results of the extra money spent. The less powerful amp actually has better bass control and a bigger, bolder sound.

     

    The 300B amp is 5x the cost of the EL84 amp. It doesn’t sound five times better, we know that’s not how this game works. Even though I could live with either of them, the improvement justifies the cost for the better (and much less powerful) amp.

    • Like 1

    Driving your speakers with more power than they "need"

    in 2-Channel Home Audio

    Posted

    Heresy @ 96 db would be fine with a low power SET in a small room with moderate listening levels. For movies or head banging, probably not. But for lascalas and khorns, high power is wasted on them. And unfortunately, unless you are willing to break the bank on an amp, as the power goes up the quality usually goes in the other direction. It's much easier and less cost prohibitive to build a high quality low power amp. And it's with low power that these extremely high efficiency speakers shine, IMHO.

    • Like 1

    Driving your speakers with more power than they "need"

    in 2-Channel Home Audio

    Posted

    48 minutes ago, Tom05 said:

    No criticism to anyone else’s setup , I’m sure your system sounds awesome . Low watt amps will clip earlier, that’s just the math . I like power , always have , in cars , motorcycles etc. Can’t an amplifier be excellent ,and powerful ? I agree that if we’re talking strictly music , then power isn’t as big an issue ,but  I also believe that some people take the low power idea a little too far , and that the power of an amplifier is an important consideration.

     

    Low power will clip earlier when paired with the wrong loudspeaker. With 104 db speakers you will never clip an 8 watt amp at any level you could withstand for any amount of time. It's all about pairing the right amplifier with the right speaker. If you don't get that part right, all bets are off.

    • Like 3
    • Thanks 1

    Driving your speakers with more power than they "need"

    in 2-Channel Home Audio

    Posted

    I have two amplifiers. One is 8 wpc (300B) and the other is a whopping 15 wpc (EL84). Neither one comes close to clipping in my system when cranking any music I desire. A lot of this is because of well designed power supplies. Not all flea watt amps are created equal. Once you hear one with some balls, you'll understand.

     

     

    I don't give two s&*ts about home theater. Not in my room.

     

     

    • Like 2
    • Thanks 1

    Driving your speakers with more power than they "need"

    in 2-Channel Home Audio

    Posted

    2 hours ago, John Chi-town said:

    You will notice a fuller sound, deeper bass, superior clarity, and dynamics you have never heard before. Out goes thin, bright sound when you have a good, solid, high-end amplifier that delivers high current and high power. It has nothing to do with loudness; it has to do with superior control and power reserve, like cruising at 80 miles on a highway with a V12 engine versus a 4-cylinder car.
     


    I agree with “good, solid, high end” part. But we part ways with the high power part. My 300B amp sounds bigger and bolder than amps with 10 x the power. Of course it would fall square on its face with the wrong speakers.

    • Like 2

    Driving your speakers with more power than they "need"

    in 2-Channel Home Audio

    Posted

    I think you've got a good handle on it. Speakers that are easy to drive and present a benign load don't usually benefit from more watts. Now when I say "easy to drive", I don't mean speakers with less than 95 db sensitivity. I mean speakers like the Heritage series and comparable ones. 

     

    I still maintain what you are hearing is that you prefer the sound of the more powerful amp, and not because it's more powerful. Because it just sounds better. This may be for several reasons.

     

    1) You like the sound of tubes over transistors

     

    2) The Fisher has better parts and a better circuit design

     

    3) The Fisher has a more robust power supply

     

    Or some combination of all of the above. But I don't think output power is what you are hearing.

     

     

    • Like 2

    Driving your speakers with more power than they "need"

    in 2-Channel Home Audio

    Posted

    Increases in gain don't equate to more power. This just means that the amp can be driven to clipping sooner or later depending on the output voltage of the source. Amps that are designed as a push/pull amp usually don't sound as good when switched to triode. Most manufacturers will agree. This just gives the owner more flexibility. Then again, as in most things audio, this is subjective. You may like a pentode amp better when switched into triode. My take is different.

    Driving your speakers with more power than they "need"

    in 2-Channel Home Audio

    Posted

    23 minutes ago, 82 Cornwalls said:

     

    This has not been my experience with amplifiers that can switch between triode and ultralinear or pentode.

    Perhaps you mean gain?

     

     

    I think this is more of a novelty than anything. Every tube amplifier I've owned that had this functionality never sounded better in triode. Yes, you get a lusher midrange, but at the expense of everything else. The only way to do triode is with a triode tube. Not a pentode.

    Driving your speakers with more power than they "need"

    in 2-Channel Home Audio

    Posted

    I think you are hearing the difference between technology AND topology. You aren't trying to drive a pair of Wilsons or Martin Logans which can have wild impedance swings. Klipsch speakers tend to have a benign impedance variance, so even the less efficient models are not hard to drive as most other speakers. A better experiment would be pitting two SS or two tube amps of different power ratings against each other on your Fortes. I tried a 150 wpc VTL and a 12 wpc Aric Audio amp on Cornwall IVs. I couldn't hear any improved dynamics or bass control with the VTL, but preferred the Aric for it's tone and imaging. Both sounded equally powerful after adjusting for any gain difference.

    • Like 1

    Upgrading to a higher end Amp

    in 2-Channel Home Audio

    Posted

    I know you didn’t ask me, but I’ve owned two different EL84 amps and both were excellent. A Music Reference RM10 II and an Aric Audio custom. I have also had many EL34 amps, also which were good. But if you don’t need the extra power, there is something special about the EL84 tube. That would be my choice.

    • Like 3

    Ran four Heritage speakers together

    in 2-Channel Home Audio

    Posted

    10 minutes ago, Fido said:

    I don’t get the point of this experiment. Having two sets of different speakers playing at the same time in different positions has to destroy the soundstage of a track cut for stereo reproduction. 
     

    no harm done here but the question remains - Why?

     

    Which brings us back to the old saying "just because you can do a thing, doesn't mean you should"...

    • Like 2
    • Haha 2

    Your first experience

    in General Klipsch Info

    Posted

    My first experience with Klipsch was back in the early 90s when I bought a pair of KG 3.2s. I wasn't really crazy about them and didn't keep them long.

     

    Fast forward to 2013 when a buddy let me borrow a pair of original Heresys. I was smitten. And even though I had a much more expensive pair of full range floor standing speakers, I thought "this is the sound for me". I found a pair of Cornwall IIs on craigslist and the rest as they say, is history.

     

    And no, I can't remember the first thing I played on any of the above speakers.

    • Like 1

    Upgrading to a higher end Amp

    in 2-Channel Home Audio

    Posted

    4 hours ago, the real Duke Spinner said:

    I use a QuickSilver FF pre into a Crown Macrotech      I can not see me happy with a few Watts.  😀


    You’d be shocked. I’ll bet dollars to donuts you can’t stay in the room with my lascalas at lease breaking levels with 8 watts. I can’t make this amp audibly clip on any source material.

    • Like 1

    Upgrading to a higher end Amp

    in 2-Channel Home Audio

    Posted

    1 hour ago, YK Thom said:

    There are some pretty nice high end amps out there, many of them made of unobtainium. The one you have currently is pretty damn good. I think any changes you may hear would be pretty minor.

     
    I agree that going from one high powered SS amp to another one might be barely noticeable. But low powered tubes are where heritage klipsch shine. Hence my recommendation.

    • Like 5
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