Dave A
-
Posts
4761 -
Joined
-
Last visited
-
Days Won
1
Content Type
Forums
Events
Gallery
Posts posted by Dave A
-
-
I am interested in buying these if anyone around middle Tennessee area has some they wish to part with. I would prefer older versions and if they need work that is OK to.
Thanks, Dave
-
Finally got the woofer repaired. All I can say is that the sound is amazingly better with these AA Industrial La Scalas over the really pristine AA LS-BR's with replaced caps which were the go to set before. Separation of instruments is so defined now and bass may not be as low but I can't tell for sure. Even with the old original AA crossovers in the Industrial's it sounds so superior that I am not touching a thing from here on out. Same recordings and amplifier and two different audio worlds.
As I sit here typing this I still have a hard time believing how much better they sound. Good thing they are in my shop for listening pleasure so I don't have to argue about klunky ugly industrial things ruining the inside of the house.
-
Don't forget the La Scala's bass horn is a folded exponential horn that traps a column of air and couples it to the woofer diaphragm. That column vibrates, but it doesn't flow air. At such long wavelengths, the corners and edges are insignificant aberrations. Adding corner reflectors in the back corners (like a Peavey FH-1) improves the high frequencies from 500 to 1000 Hz, shorter wavelengths.
I do understand this but have not yet had a answer as to whether sound waves can be directed just like an air flow could be. Direction of sound waves is what I am considering and air is just an analogy. Now if this never increased bass levels but improved sound quality over all this would still be worthwhile to me to try.
-
I'd recommend getting in touch with Greg Roberts at Volti and bounce some questions off him. The solution to a better performing La Scala is not a modified La Scala....it's entirely different design.Applied acoustics. All the features of the bass bin are no finer than required for the intended pass band for instance.
OK that makes some sense but considering the huge variables in the various construction methods you referred me to this is not a finished science and what I proposed could make a difference. I will get in touch with Greg and thanks for the lead.
What really started me wondering about all this were the kind of crude angular mods people have done where there was not much if any thought given to, once again thinking here that flow of sound can be in some ways similar to flow of gas, the aerodynamics of things. For instance a flat faced triangular corner piece would I figure bounce sound back at a 45 degree angle which would throw it right into the side of the doghouse where as a radiused corner would tend to direct to the front of the cabinet.
Does anyone know how the size of the cutout for the motor board was arrived at?
-
What had me guessing is after the corner bend there is no more expansion until the horn mouth.
Maybe this area could be more constructive somehow ?
Me to. This is one of the things that had me thinking about why things were done and leaning towards good enough was good enough. An inside corner round of pretty generous size can be put in there like I have and not reduce the narrowest point at all. If sound does to some degree behave like the flow of most everything else I would think getting the sound out with the least amount of feeding back upon itself through induced swirls and eddies would have to help improve the definition of the sound and make it less muddy so to speak.
-
While doing so I wonder if the angular and boxy construction of the La Scala was more a reflection of then current construction capabilities or whether it was an actual decision based upon sound wave propagation.
I was asking the same question today, but about the Belle. Of course the lascala would fall under the same category. I could see why, you think of a couple of guys in a small work shop with out the tools and technology we have, how could they do some of this. Anyways, I guess this is why we have seen the curved Lascala. Have you seen the work that goes into one of those, there is no way they could keep the cost down. Then there is the question, does it sound that much better? Does it make that much of a difference for the need to spend so much? Only time will tell. I would like to build a curved Lascala or Belle, but only if there is some sort of evidence that it would be an improvement. My thought was "if it was curved on the back side would it be more efficient?" Quite hollow is probably correct with the fact its not flowing water, but rather the way it bounces around back there.
I like the drawings along with the thought process.
Now you are talking. I can accept that the angular surfaces could improve things. All I am asking is for definitive information based upon research done and not just opinions. With all the talk here about reinforcing making a noticeable difference in sound quality it seems as though the general consensus is things could be improved. Reading things here is a bit tedious at times because it's like there is a contest between money spent equating to bragging rights over solid real definable improvements and best bang for the buck real life analysis. I want the real answers because cost is not a problem since I can do this myself on machinery I already own. I don't however want to just waste time.
Like the hole size in the dog house for the woofer. Rectangular and pretty small to me all things considered so does restricting the sound create a deeper bass utilizing the vibration of deliberately restricted and angular square cornered refinements made of plywood? Now throw in 1" plywood is supposed to sound better and there goes in part the vibration thing. See my problem here is that you can go round and round in circles trying to find the best answer.
-
Went to the two sites you reference and I see nothing there like what I posted. Now are you suggesting that klipsch made analytical decisions here based upon various configurations to get the very best or was a certain level satisfactory and he went with that?
In so far as vibration goes this is a one piece milled from solid thing and if glued and fastened to the back of the motor board is far more ridging than existing and far less prone to vibration is my opinion. What do you base your vibration comment on?
-
I was told about how Paul penny pinched to a ridiculous degree on simple pennies per item at times recently. Considering the cost of La Scalas and what was saved it was silly at times. I have no design software for audio but my thought was to build upon sizes from the existing La Scala and for the corners to not become a choke point where the volume of the opening would be lesser than the narrowest existing in the current design.
-
I had to pull the bottom off a pair of Industrial La Scala this week. While doing so I see for the first time the guts of a La Scala. Now one thing leads to another and I find a PDF file on the forums for building instructions. I decide to go ahead and build a 3D model from the PDF with my CAD program.
While doing so I wonder if the angular and boxy construction of the La Scala was more a reflection of then current construction capabilities or whether it was an actual decision based upon sound wave propagation. For example if the cabinet was made a bit bigger so the internal corners could have been rounded would not the sound waves find an easier exit? Or how about the back was one machined piece as shown below? I figure I could easily do this as one piece on my Haas VF4 but it would have been a lot of work for Klipsch to try this. This deflector back piece would be a direct replacement for the standard La Scala cabinet.
Or does the boxy angular surfaces help contain sound waves a bit and utilize the cabinet to make deeper bass? See the back inside view picture. This one piece would be a lot more solid and could also be glued fastened to the motor board for a much more ridgid construction.
-
2
-
-
Yeah it will be new for sure. I don't know what all these were subject to. Wonder how peoples ear drums were after all that?
-
Well these knew the lyrics but the 10 pack a day raspy voice I could have done without
-
2
-
-
It is the K-43. As far as I can tell I am the first one in there. I don't intend to drift far from factory specs on this and I don't intend to ever sell them either. I have no quarrel with the sound as PK designed and no desire to change it. I will have a look at your suggestion. Are the screw centers that same as the K-33/43?
-
Well I have formed a new criteria for buying speakers now. If I cant turn them way up with lots of bass you have to knock off 600.00 or I go. The guy I bought these from I honestly don't think deceived me as he was running these with a tiny 20 amp unit in his garage. Military vet and super nice. When I got these home I had them up pretty loud but nothing to alarming. So today I crank them way up after switching things around and finding my old speakers were just fine, new ones were not. Out comes Toccata and Fugue in D Minor and some volume and ouch. At the very least the speakers will have to be re-coned. The magnets on these are HUGE. Anyway looks like the deal is not so hot but these are the ones I want. It is amazing to me how good they sounded even with problems and the broken speaker cone was not really apparent to me until a real stress test. I look forward to when they are working right. I believe I have found the hum unless there are other problems to. I cant imagine what they did to blow these up.
These will go out in my shop which is the only place I get to turn them up and the idea of fiberglass and industrial look and durability will look nice next to the CNC mill and Lathe
Any suggestions as to where to go for reconing or should I just look for new? I definitely want the bigger amp speakers however I have to do it.
On the plus side I finally got to see the guts of a La Scala and I wonder what one made out of 1" thick aluminum would sound like?
-
I suppose anything can happen. I took my amplifier with me to test the speakers if needed but I doubt highly that a trip in the van hurt them. Yes with the other La Scalas there is not a hint of hum at any level and so I suspect the new ones. I just have not had a chance to play with all the variations yet and it may be a few days before I can. I will update when i have new info.
Since the seller said everything had been disconnected when he bought them I had suspected there was a problem there first. I had them on long enough to determine there was a hum but no time to fool around yet. I just thought asking to see if anyone had experienced this issue might give me a heads up on where to start. Thanks for the replies by the way and I will try the suggestions made some time this coming week..
-
OK here are some pictures and further info. There are two tweeter types. The horn driver is the spring type and not the soldered type. The wires were not really in there good so it may have been part of the problem but at 6:00 AM I could not exactly crank these up without some rebellion:)
Considering the tweeters I am leaning towards getting a pair from Crites.
The crossovers are so clean they look factory new. It is scary how nice they look compared to the other four sets of La Scalas I have gone through now. I presume though that the capacitors should still be replaced.
Still need an answer of how to determine the source of the hum though and I hope someone chimes in. Yes I remember reading of speakers not hooked up the same but can't find that article to troubleshoot the problem I have.
Help would certainly be appreciated.
-
Brought home a pair of fiberglassed one piece Industrial La Scalas today. There is a hum from them and I would like to know where to start isolating the problem.(s) The history of these is they came from a sound studio that loaned them out and they were returned with a tweeter diaphragm busted and not working. The guy I bought them from said the wires had been disconnected and he put them back in. He also replaced the tweeter diaphragm with one from Crites. I think I remember reading about improper wire hookups could cause this but would like to find out how you guys delve into fixing and isolating a problem like this.
Not sure of the age and the only written serial numbers on the back are 17 and 27. They are AA crossovers which since they have been sealed in are the cleanest ones I have ever seen.
As an aside here other than the hum there seems to be better stereo sound separation with these than another pair I have with AA crossovers that are the LSBR type. I am half wondering here with the extra heft and fiberglass on these and the pretty serious aluminum protective strips and angles if the sound quality is going to end up better. I know some of you guys brag on reinforcing La Scalas to improve them and these just may already be there by virtue of their construction as they are built like a tank. Anyway any suggestions?
-
Rick,
The older AA crossover pair does have this. The AL pair has nothing stamped in but does have a useable label. The AL-3 pair has an S stamped in one and nothing in the other. Is there another way to figure this out?
-
OK here are the pictures requested for the three sets of La Scalas. In addition you can see my custome sound room/theatre with the AL-3 pair in place. Now speaking of these I have also attached a pic of the tag. I can't find a match for the data on here so I am asking for help to ID these.
-
Yes to the 3mm to RCA idea and I have one on order that should be here today. Now fiddling around today looking at system devices I discover that the Nvidia Quadro K2000 graphics card I have has 2 HDMI ports and in addition I have a SoundMax integrated Hi Def card to so between the two if the cable does not work right I am certain something can be done with the other ports. I am victim of being to literal at times and I looked at ports only in Device Manger instead of being clever enough to look at the sound and video section. First things first though and if the cheapo solution works I am all for it. Downloading some 24/96 audio and I will see how that helps out to if indeed it was done right. Next on the list would be the HDMI and is that the better way anyway? A hookup for that to the Onkyo cant be much although I am going to have to go look and see if there is an HDMI port on it. In any case looking at all the responses I know this can be done one way or another.
None of my Workstations are three years old yet Beeker. With CAD design and machining programs there are to many compelling reasons to keep pretty current with technology because times does matter and faster is better.
-
Thanks again for the replies. A bit overwhelmed and I am going to start with the cheaper solutions and work up from there. One thing I am discovering is the problem that Dave M mentions. I sat out in my shop last night listening to a Bach organ download and was once again disappointed. 192 bit rate and lots of hiss in the background and just not good definition like I had from an old E Power Biggs recording I have somehow lost. It caused me to get other files out and seriously listen and I have come to the conclusion that somehow people can make lossless and FLAC and high bit rate files out of junk so what I get to hear is junk. So add to the mix now where the heck do you reliably get decent quality to play so you can even figure out if what you are doing with the speakers is worth while? One thing leads to another I suppose. I can turn the Onkyo up way louder than I could if I was playing anything and there is not even a hint of noise from the system so I am pretty sure the Onkyo is not a part of the problem except for the hookup issue I have talked about.
-
OK, back in for lunch and a pile of replies. I do not want to use the USB port on the Onkyo with a flash drive. I like the features of Windows media to sort, compile and edit lists and to be able to click directly on a file and open it without the mindless scrolling that the USB and flash drive combo demands.
I have no idea what quality the sound card is but all my PC's are workstations and in general use better than consumer components. I will have to check the one in the shop and see what ports it has but I do think I remember seeing a co-ax connection if this implies digital output. Just went out there and I think all I have are USB ports and the regular jack type for speakers like a Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 would plug into.
Looking for good sound quality but don't expect to ever get audiophile quality in a shop full of hard flat surfaces. But that having been said all introduced problems stack up and I don't mind spending some money. I just don't want to jump right in and start throwing money at things that may not require it. I can see how quickly this can get out of hand.I will have a look at the other suggestions as I have time later today. Thanks all.
-
Here is the background to this question. I have an Onkyo 8050 reciever which I really like but the interface is clunky with the USB. I also have a Klipsch 2.1 speaker system which just for the heck of it I used to power the La Scalas. Worked pretty well with all the volume that I wanted but was not even close to the output quality of the Onkyo. I did like however the idea that I could A, use the files on my PC with the audio card on the PC and B, there was a graphic equalizer I could use to.
What do I need to do to use my PC as the main "controller" for powering these La Scalas? I really like the idea of numerous files I can pull from and do whatever mix I want and be able to control it all from the PC
-
What a joke. So you buy some 6061 aluminum rod stock, write a program and cut time for these could not possibly be more than 30 seconds each. It is called do something a typical hobbiest can't do and turn $1.00 into gobs of $$$$$. Can't speak for the pretty box though except perhaps a little Vulcan mind meld action might be required to make it work.
-
Hi all,
I have been out of town on a few jobs and just have not looked here for a bit. First off the Noblesville sidetrip was a dud. The Klipsch Ampitheatre was about two miles from my jobsite but with 6 inches of snow on the ground nothing was going on and no locals knew anything about a Klipsch soundroom so I never had that pleasure.
Bruce, I will take you up on that offer and next time I am that way I will call ahead and plan a stop. My preferences are all across the board from 70's rock to Irish folk and bagpipes. I am not fussy.
Cabinet condition is a desirable thing but I am finding that pristine cabinets are not out there. All have some degree of damage unless I want to shell out a lot more money.
Now I have added to my situation in the mean time with another pair of La Scalas that were for sale in Cary North Carolina which was on the way to my last job. I figured at $1,100 I could not go wrong and can always resell them later anyway if I choose not to keep them. These have the AL3 crossovers and the best shape cabinets of the three pairs. I am having trouble though identifying the age of these since there does not appear to be a number that corresponds with anything I can find. Their SN#'s are 26247 and 26214 and both are W/O 4738 and both have the same part numbers which is a long string of numbers only. I guess I will pick the best and sell the rest although I have thought about a little fix up first and then see what the market will bear here in TN.
I have some observations on the sound from the three as I bought them. The oldest AA type has the muddiest sound with less definition of the instruments which I assume is due to old capacitors. I am seriously thinking of getting new crossovers for this one just to see how it sounds. Also there seems to be a general concurence here that these years of AA crossover production were some of the best.
The AL type has better sound to my ears with better definition and the bass and drums reach right out and grab you better than the AA pair.
The AL3 has the best definition and oddly enough requires less power to drive them to uncomfortable levels. You know I had to do that though as a matter of strict research
This has led to my consideration for the new AA crossovers as older to newer of the three have a pronounced difference in sound. Is the difference here in the sounds due to just the deterioration of the crossovers or do the components make that big a difference to? As far as I can tell all tweeters etc are OK and all has been tightened up. I will get pictures of the three up in the next day or two.
KP-250 and KP-115 KP480 Questions
in Klipsch Pro Audio
Posted
This week I bought a pair of KP-250-A and a pair of KP-250-R mains along with a pair KP-115-A subs and a pair of KP-480-SW subs. If there is someone who is around the middle Tennessee area who knows these I think there are some problems but I need guidance on how to diagnose whatever is wrong with them. They sound a bit muddy to me and the one KP-250 seems to have an intermittent cutout in the midrange horn.