steve

uh oh..why do I get the feeling I'm going to be let down here??

C'mon Jim.. years?? you know how that upgrade bug is..months maybe..ha ha Steve

Mark I have the same unit in one of my garage systems..your inquiry got the best of me..so i went out and pulled the knob off..came off no problem..try it again..maybe there's a little bit of grit or something on the shaft Steve

WAIT..WAIT!! Let's back up a few posts! Brett, about those Western Electric 300Bs..feel like passing your extreme good fortune around and selling me a pair for a decent price i.e. you make a tidy profit, and I don't pay the usual high price thes things are commanding?? Thanx! Steve

Now we're into the cars! I had a '67 and and '68 Camaro in the 70's..the 68 was a stock 327 with the powerglide, but the 67 was a bastardized version, originially a 250 6 with a three on the tree turned into a 327 with a Muncie M22 and a 5:13 rear posi! I busted 2 bellhousings, 1st gear was worthless, did 10.83 in a quarter and got about 4 MPG!! It turned 4200 RPM at 55 in 4th gear..good thing the rocker arm studs were the screw in type! I owned a numbers matching 68 Firebird that had the 400 HO/4 speed Muncie (the rarest combo for that year) from 1978 to 2003..25 years..with 42K original mileage..it started to get some rust..I never drove it due to lack of roads here..so I sold it to a close friend in Valdez..he's been doing a complete restoration on it..got a web page on it http://www.cardomain.com/ride/741466 Craig, great looking RS/SS! Steve PS..this is before i sold it!

Larry I have always used tone controls, with all the systems I have owned from a teenager (yes, the 70's) until now..on all my intregrated or preamps, from Marantz, Harmon Kardon, Accuphase, Adcom, Craig's (NOSvalves) Scott, and finally my McIntosh C2200..in fact, my search for a tube preamp concluded with the Mac, as I couldn't find another WITH tone controls. Then a funny thing happened..I find the McIntosh sounds a whole lot better without the tone controls in! I never thought I'd be making this statement in a hundred years..I always thought all my previous preamps sounded horribly thin without tone controls! I still don't know what to make of this.. But, here's the bottom line. If I WANT to add/subtract some bass/treble on horribly recorded CDs or other sources, I have that option. And, I have used them on some occasions! So use them without any guilt.."audiophile" tag be damned!! People without that option either suffer through poor source materials, or just give up listening to them altogether! Regards, Steve

If I still had a car in Seattle, like i used to when my parents lived there, I'd be all over them for 1400.00! There'd be no other expenses involved!! I too hope buyer and seller get a good deal, and everyone's happy! And I would rather them go to a good home as a pair too really..seeing how i just want one! Good luck Kevin! Steve

Kevin the offer was not meant as an insult, that I assure you. Just like I said though, if I had to spend 2 nights in a hotel, rent a car, buy boxing/packing material etc. to ship them, then pay for shipping..well, the cost would go up considerably. And, really I'm only looking for one as a center. If by some chance someone still wants to split them, let me know what you will sell them for as singles.. Thanx Steve

Hi Kevin Seeing how I'd have to fly down/stay in hotel/rent a rig to go get them and bring them back, then pack them and ship them..plus they (more than likely) need a crossover upgrade..I'll offer you a grand for the pair..this is a lot less than the price you threw out there..and if you can do better locally, by all means do it..but that's about what it's worth to me for the hoops I have to jump thru. Let me know..I can come down this Friday if you accept the offer.. Thanx, Steve PS..I really only want one as a center..but I'll deal with that later if you want to accept my offer..

Jmon let's see how much Kevin wants for them..I know it's not gonna be cheap to get them here, but I can have mine delivered to the Seattle area and I can deal with it from there Kevin, please let us know what you'd like for them. Thanx Steve

Jmon let's see how much Kevin wants for them..I know it's not gonna be cheap to get them here, but I can mine delivered to the Seattle area and I can deal with it from there Kevin, please let us know what you'd like for them. Thanx Steve

I'd be interested in splitting the pair with another forum member if anyone would like to chime in here.. Steve

Gary what city in Maryland? I'll do some legwork..thanx Jmon not to sound ignorant but how different are walnut laquered and oiled Belles?? Steve

Mark I would use my SET amp in mono to feed the Belle..the McIntosh has three sets of preamp outputs. No prob there...thanx for advice though. Regards, Steve

Gary Think there's any way we could get it to Seattle via Forward Air or something if I can get you a good address? I could use a friends..then fly down there and ship it the rest of the way on our airline? Just curious if we could work something out..thanx Steve

well, I have all my new Mac gear, some bass traps, getting some Al K crossovers for the KHorns, and I have all the other equipment needed for a 3 channel set up..except the speaker! I'd like to get a Belle for that duty..so..if anyone here has one for sale, or sees one for sale, or would like to split a pair, let me know! I can get to the Seattle area and ship it from there..but that's about as close as I can get. I have to fly 1100 miles just to do that. Like I said..eventually..it doesn't have to happen today. Thanx! Steve

Dean I thank you for your honest answer. I haven't checked this thread for a couple of days..went back to see if it was updated.. I talked to Al this morning (before I read the above) and ordered the regular upgraded crossovers. From what you described, Dean, it sounds like this is the sound I'm looking for. I may have to do the complete squawker upgrade down the road from what I have read/heard. Dean, didn't you buy that option? Seems like when Al first mentioned it, you were gonna be first in line. Rick, thanx for your recommendation of the ALKs..of course I had ordered them before looking back at this thread..but now I feel better! Steve

OK thanx Craig I might have to see how busy Dean is these days.. Steve

Craig I didn't know Dean made xovers for the Khorn..I thought he only did for other Heritage speakers, and Reference series? That's why I mentioned Al Klappenberger's upgrades..how would Dean's/Al's compare? Thanx, Steve

how would you describe the difference? More detail? Smoother frequency blend? Steve

Well, as i posted last week, what with upgrading all my gear, things sounded like they were "wrong". first not enough bass, then too much bass etc. etc. It was driving me mad. Anyway, I had left town for a day, and when I came back, things had settled down a bit, maybe I needed a break from such intensive listening sessions. Who knows?? At any rate, I checked all drivers, and they seem to be fine. I covered the squawkers with a pillow, and I could hear the tweeters no problem. It certainly didn't seem like there was a lot of info coming out of there, but i remember reading somewhere that there really isn't that much info above the squawker crossover frequency. I also swapped different components, interconnects, and speaker cables out and ruled out the possibility of having something wrong with my new gear. There isn't. It sounds better than anything else I have used. I still think my room is the culprit, as the garage speakers I swapped in for jollies sound better in the garage than in the music room. I still have to toy with the bass traps some more. That said, I still feel like I need "something" for more detail. It seems that I have noticed detail slipping away, ever so slowly over the years. It's probaly my hearing when it comes down to it..but the question is..should i go ahead and get some Al K crossovers and be done with it?? Is there really that much difference?? I have AK2 crossovers, and of course they're 22 years old. I appreciate all opinions, cause I've pretty much decided to stay with the Mac gear, and i don't want to change speakers..I'm pretty loyal to the KHorn! Thanx all Steve

Ya gotta remember the WAF! Glad he got 'em set up though! Although Yakutat hasn't grown much since you were there Tommy, the fishermen population in the summer has certainly exploded! Someone let the secret out, that's for sure. We have crowds from My til October..steelhead run to the end of silvers! And it's still just as beautiful here..except when it rains of course!! And we get a lot of that!

I'm pretty sure that all speakers are working but I will double check..if so I may just have to contact Al K and invest in some new crossovers..I have type AK and I understand they were some of the poorest? I still can't figure out where the bass came from when I hook the 300B up direct..and how there's really no difference between the Mac 275 or the 300B..that's why I wondered if the crossovers are kaput.. Rick, I haven't changed cables..I still use Audioquest Indigo speaker wires, have for years. I did check my connections, but the AKs are soldered in..no contact strip with screws like other models. I gotta leave town today, but will post my findings when I return. Thanx all for your input! Steve

Lynn leave it to me to not scroll down on the forum page..late as usual. As others have said, I wish you the best. What a great attitude you have! That's more than half the battle! You have a lot more to add to this forum, no need to leave now! Prayers are with you and yours! Can't wait for the post that says you're cancer free! Take care, Steve

OK, OK I've played with all my new gear, and I'm getting more frustrated by the minute.I thought I'd write a post explaining what's going on,and see if anyone here can offer some advice. This post will probably jump around a bit, as I'll write things down as I remember them..here goes. I just bought two new pieces of equipment, a McIntosh C2200 tube preamp, and a McIntosh MC275 tube amp. These replaced a Scott 130 preamp, and an Assemblage SET300B amp. That combo sounded really good, but I always have "upgrade" fever like many, and decided to "get it over with" and lay down some big bucks so I would be set..hopefully for good. (We always think that don't we??) The Ah! CD player and my 83 KHorns remain constant. Let me digress before getting into the problem. I have always complained about lack of bass, blaming my music room. Artto has graciously answered a lot of my questions, and the gist of the matter is that I needed bass traps, for i really had no high frequency problems..but I really lacked bass..therefore, I always wanted preamps with tone controls..hence the Mac replacing the Scott. OK..that said.. I ordered some LERND bass traps from Auralex..and I spent a few bucks on that! So now, let's start out when I first got the new gear, piece by piece. First thing to arrive was the preamp. I was pretty jazzed, after all the reviews I read on the C2200..so I hooked it up, replacing the Scott. First thing I noticed, was that there seemed to be a few "frequencies" missing. I thought that was strange, and fooled with the tone controls, but they actually didn't seem to change things a whole bunch, as the Scott had (or the Adcom GFP565 before that did also) so i shrugged it off as the tubes needing to burn in (for those who believe in that) or maybe I needed those bass treatments, as the frequencies were shifting about in the room. Speaking of which, I still had some pretty lame bass..but I was used to that. OK, now I get the bass traps..I hang them up, starting where Artto suggested i.e. where the bass was bunched up, listening while i walked around the room. Hmmm..that seemed to give me more bass in my listening position. Nice. I was kinda pleased, and couldn't wait to get my 75 watt tube amp to replace my 8 watt SET, knowing I'd have even more bass. So then the new MC275 arrived, I couldn't wait for the weekend. I hooked it up, and even though I thought I'd need some "burn in" time, it sounded really good. Maybe everything was a little "rolled off" at the top, but all in all it sounded pretty darned good, and the bass was there, not overpowering or anything, but a lot better than I had experienced before. I caught myself leaving certain CDs on the player longer, listening to tracks I had never heard, as I was caught up in the music, not the equipment. I was missing a little bit of detail the SET had, but not to the extent that I wanted to give up that bass I had missed. I was elated..impressed..and couldn't wait for subsequent music nights! Heck, I might spend a few hours out there on my DAYS off, in addition to my nights off! Then, after a few listening sessions..it started sounding "muffled"..bear in mind, I had actually been listening with the tone controls OUT of the system, something i thought I'd never do! I heard about many of you doing this, but i always used them, and felt I needed them..until the McIntosh gear..I thought I knew what you guys were talking about! ..anyway.. I then compared a CD to an LP..same album/cut etc. And i thought the LP sounded cleaner, brighter..which was 180 out from any like comparison I had made with previous preamp/amp configurations. In fact, 90 percent of my CD/LP comparisons showed the same thing! I was flabbergasted! I thought something was wrong with the preamp. I emailed McIntosh, and got a very prompt answer from their tech guy. In fact, we emailed back and forth thru the weekend, and I'm sure he was convinced that I was nuts before it was all over. (see my thread "C2200 strangeness) I even took a tapestry down that was hanging behind the listening position, and that seemed to "brighten" up things on the CD side..so I thought I had solved the "muffled" problem..and sat back believing things were gonna get better..well you guessed it.. they weren't! In fact, they have continued to get worse this week. First off..I have always complained about the lack of bass. Now, there's so much bass, it's overwhelming! The tone controls are still set flat (well, out of the system)..I have moved the bass traps around, and finally eliminated them altogether, making the room like it was before, and there's still too much bass! Blaming the preamp, I took another forum member's advice (he has the same Mac gear and has no complaints at all!) and hooked up the CD player to the MC275 directly..and it sounds exactly the same! First I used the voltage inputs on the amp as a volume control..then the CDs built in volume control..and finally a stand alone passive volume control..all got the same results. Too much bass/not enough detail. Every listening session got worse. OK, that eliminated the preamp. Ah-HAH! I say..must be the difference between the amps! I still have my flea powered SET, so I throw that back in the mix. Where the heck did all this bass come from?? I could never coax that out from this amp! So I do the same thing with the SET..go direct from the CD player to the amp..same thing!! Not much distinction AT ALL between the amps! I still can't get over the bass!! So as a last ditch effort, I swap in 2 other CD players, a Sony and an Adcom. The results are the same (even though I definitely can hear more detail in the AH!) I swap cables all over the place..the bass is still overwhelming..little detail in the top end. I move my listening position..I even try the bass traps one more time. They make it worse..focusing the bass in my face. I'm done..I've had it. So here's where I ask for help/suggestions. First off..why is the bass so alive now, even with the SET?! Like I said, I bypassed the preamp with both amps..and it sounds the same on both when bypassed completely, or hooked to the C2200 with the tone controls bypassed..it isn't the preamp. Bear in mind I've never done this before. But when I had the Scott, the loudness was always on (trying to get more bass) and the bass was set at about 2 o'clock..and there was NEVER any bass like this!! If I try to add treble, or more bass for that matter now, just to see the results..it sounds distorted..and that's with either amp. So..do you think the crossovers on my 83 KHorns are gone?? All speakers are working, as I've listened to them individually. But I have to admit, the detail is gone. I even tried Alan Parsons "On Air", and if you have ever heard it, there's lots of detail..and it sounded muddled tonight. I used to hear weird nuances I had never heard before..that's all gone now. What I used to hear is buried. Maybe my hearing is gone. Actually, the first few days with this combo and bass traps were bliss. I could listen to it louder, longer etc. with NO listener's fatigue. That was a few weeks ago. After yesterday and today my ears hurt. And they usually hurt from LOW frequencies. Last time I felt this way was when I had an 18 inch DefTech sub in the system..I thought I had an ear infection! Now, again it sounds like I have a sub going on full blast all the time! The highs just aren't there like they used to be. So..hence my frustration. First it was buyer's remorse, thinking i had screwed up. But with taking both pieces out of the system, I know better. Are the KHorns to blame?? Or can I not see the forest for the trees?? Thank you all for any suggestions. I am, really at wit's end. Steve