minn_male42

russ need beer......

seriously.... the sunfire is an AWESOME amp...... go for it if the numbers work out!!!!

---------------- On 5/1/2005 10:37:18 PM tkdamerica wrote: Russ IS having a good night and I appreciate his help.... ---------------- thank you..... thank you very much (in elvis voice)

---------------- On 5/1/2005 10:08:28 PM tkdamerica wrote: We better keep my wife out of it--She's a 3rd Degree Blackbelt with a short fuse. Does the Sunfire connect to the Denon with RCA type connections? ---------------- yes http://www.sunfire.com/400FiveFrontPR.htm Features and Specs 400 watts rms continuous per channel, all channels driven into eight ohms from 20Hz to 20kHz with no more than 0.5% T.H.D. 800 watts rms per channel into four ohms. 1600 watts rms per channel into two ohms - time limited basis. Two output options: current source for a warmer, more open tube sound or voltage source for the tightest response possible Intrinsic frequency response 1 Hz to 80 kHz Patented Tracking Downconverter power supply Signal present auto-on switch which automatically wakes up the amp when it receives a signal from the Sunfire or other preamp 12VDC trigger input with 1/8" mini jacks as well as plug-in screw-terminal strip High-quality gold-plated all metal five-way binding posts Each unit hand-signed by Bob Carver Balanced XLR and unbalanced RCA inputs Five-year parts and labor warranty

bottom line..... you get what you pay for... these entry level digital receivers can sound very good on certain speakers in certain rooms at limited volumes... push them hard and their limitations soon appear..... (Hmmmmmm.... didn't we just talk about this in a recent SET discussion) anyone wishing for the ULTIMATE sound without paying anything or next to nothing is probably better off buying lottery tickets.... or using headphones to listen to music....

---------------- On 5/1/2005 10:06:39 PM Nitefane wrote: I have an older Yamaha RX-V992 receiver hooked up to my new RF-7s and it sounds fine at lower levels but at medium to higher volumes its much to harsh. I was wondering if I bought a Harmon Kardon AVR 7300 reciever if it would help to bring the brightness down. Is there any amp or any way to bring the brightness down on the RF-7's. I have around a 1500 us dollar budget for an amp/receiver. I have read that Harmon Kardon, Marantz, and Rotel all work well with brighter speakers. What do you think is the best way to warm the sound up? ---------------- older yamaha receiver mated with RF-7's sounds like a problem from the start older yamaha electronics are known to have problems with horn speakers...... almost ANY newer receiver will work better with your RF-7's.... all of your listed sugestions are good options to consider as well as pioneer elite.... the best possible situation of course is to find a local dealer with a 30 day money back guarantee and buy the different receivers and see what sounds best in your room... in my personal experience, my pioneer elite 55txi was actually too warm for my personal listening preferences.... i use the 55txi as a pre/pro with an outboard amplifier to power my KLF-30's... good luck in your search!

---------------- On 5/1/2005 10:01:28 PM Painful Reality wrote: ....my Spandex craving..... ---------------- o.k. that is wrong on soooooooo many different levels i don't know where to start......

---------------- On 5/1/2005 9:53:04 PM tkdamerica wrote: Not really Art. You have been all I have been thinking about--It's making my wife nervous (in more ways than one) ---------------- not there is anything wrong with that.....

look at this way... you can always add room treatments to "deaden" or "darken" the sound..... but you cannot change ANYTHING in your room if your amplifier is "warming" the sound and removing the details in the higher frequencies... btw - i don't use my tone controls at all..... but i did run the MCACC on my pioneer elite 55txi.... it has a 5 band digital equalizer on all five channels to eq your speakers to the room you are in.... it does slightly "turn down" the eq of my KLF-30's at 11 khz compared to the "direct" setting...

BEER TRUCK???? where???? after all.... we DO need to keep our priorities straight....

---------------- On 5/1/2005 9:16:12 PM ottscay wrote: Cool. I'm going to be too lazy (or, more acurately, to busy) to roll my own this time around. I trust your audio judgement, and I too like lke to hear lots of detail in my music (not to mention HT). You don't suffer any listening fatigue at all? That's all the "smoothness" I really want. Scott ---------------- since i am divorced and only see my two daughters one night a week and every other weekend - i have my system on almost constantly when i am home..... at least 6 hours almost every night of music and/or movies..... at very realistic (loud) volumes.... no fatigue at all and i am a former music educator (16 years as a band director).... i KNOW what live music should sound like..... if the recordings of Maynard Ferguson don't induce any listener fatigue - then it must be a good amp..... (Maynard is a screaming trumpet player with over 40 recordings released over the past 50 years) http://www.gr8music.com/Ferguson,_Maynard/mf-bio.html btw - one of the favorite things that my daughters like to do at daddy's house is watch movies!!!.....

---------------- On 5/1/2005 8:21:36 PM tkdamerica wrote: My Home Theater is listed at the bottom of this post. It sounds wonderful and I have no complaints. My last "upgrade" was exchanging some RB-75's with a pair of RS-7's to use as rear surrounds in a 7.1 (9.2 depending on how you look at it ;-) setup. It really didn't make that much of a difference. I am now considering using my Denon 4802R as a preamp and wondering if a multichannel amp would improve my sound dramatically. I plan on renting an amp to try first, but I was tempted (and still am) to buy a Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature 400 x5 without hearing it first because it was a good deal. I also contacted a Parasound dealer and got his opinion on their product. I read pretty much every thread in the last couple of years regarding different amplifiers on this site so I am not ruling out any companies, but I prefer to buy locally in the DFW area. My questions are these: 1) With the sunfire rated at 400 wpc, do I risk harming my speakers and would this be a tremendous improvement in sound quality (the loudest I play my 4802R is - 15 and it sounds great)? 2) Any advantage with the high current, heavier Amps that are rated at lower WPC than the sunfire? 3) If I decide to get a 5 channel amp to run my main 5 speakers, is there any problem (if I adjust the gain) with running my other 4 surrounds with the Denon 4802R? Any help would be appreciated. ---------------- question #1: you will not have any risk in "harming" your speakers..... 99.99% of all speaker damage is caused by overdriving speakers with under-powered amps ..... you will only use the amplifier power that is necessary to power your speakers to the level that you require in your room and whatever transient peaks that the music/soundtrack requires.... question #2: the sunfire will outperform many of the other "boat-anchors" out there that can help prevent a tornado from taking away your house.... even spending $10,000 on a plinuis amp might improve the sound or it might not.... IMHO... the sunfire is the way to go.... question #3: you should be able to adjust the levels of the channels in your receiver even with different amps..... you should have some sort of setup system that allows for volume level adjustments per channel... this will work whether you are using the internal amps or outboard amplification... personally - i am using a carver pro ZR1000 digital amp for my mains, a carver pro PM125 bridged to mono for my center, and the internal amps on my pinoeer elite 55txi to power my surrounds.... after i run the auto setup program - all the levels are set and the different amps integrate almost seamlessly for a great 5.1 sound!!! good luck!

wait a minute..... did someone mention Beer Trucks????????

---------------- On 5/1/2005 8:05:02 PM Buck wrote: Russ, Interesting how one review differs from another. The way Brian describes the Carvers, Klipsch would be the last speaker you would want to mate the ZRs' with. Have you done any mods and do cables make that much of a difference? His review now has me thinking twice about purchasing one. Jeff ---------------- i guess it comes down to the sound that you want to hear coming out of your speakers.... personally, i love the extreme detail i hear from my KLF-30's...every nuance...every breath.... every valve noise (on brass instruments).... every string scrape.... all of the above i get with my carver ZR amp if the amp is "warm".... it covers up the fine details and makes the bad recordings sound better.... i prefer to make the good recordings sound even better and not to listen to bad recordings i do not believe in using cables to affect the sound.... if they affect the sound (IMHO) - it could only be to degrade the sound and that is something that i don't want to do.... read the entire thread on audio circle... it's a good read "Russ, my reciever pre-outs are RCA, and it appears that the Carver Pro uses XLR inputs. I see that some of the user comments warn against using converters with th XR1000...so what kind of cabling would you recommend? Thanks again! Scott" cables to go as well as other sources have premade RCA to XLR cables if you don't feel up to making your own cables.... (i made my own cables using belden RG-59 and neutrik connectors) http://www.cablestogo.com/product.asp?cat%5Fid=2029&sku=40046 here is a 3 foot cable for $10.99....

---------------- On 5/1/2005 8:37:02 PM TBrennan wrote: ...... if you want to be funny or insulting your overreliance on "therapy" and "meds" and such is getting old and is hardly original in any case.... ---------------- LOL i'm sorry... i didn't realize that so many other posters had made the same recommendations.... your going off your meds must be obvious to many more people than i thought.... LOL

---------------- On 5/1/2005 8:09:55 PM TBrennan wrote: Craig---You and your syncophants can be as smart-alecky as you like. The fact remains that you make money making one kind of amp and are critical of another. Common ethics would suggest that you make your financial interests clear. ---------------- maybe you should take your meds and read a few more of craig's posts.... craig is very open in his posts and his motivations...... but someone in therapy like yourself might miss that...

---------------- On 5/1/2005 8:03:11 PM DizRotus wrote: You Canadians always stick together. Eh? Next it'll be Anne Murray that we should like. Ok, I'll risk Dean's wrath. I agree with you about the Live in Paris DVD. ---------------- the "Live in Paris" DVD is very good... but the "Live at the Montreal Jazz festival" DVD is even better...... and as much as i respect Dean's opinion in other matters... he is missing the boat on this subject....

---------------- On 5/1/2005 8:04:08 PM NOSValves wrote: Yea some times I can be funny! But seriously Tom does use hearing aids. Craig ---------------- it does explain many of his posts...... on this forum and others

---------------- On 5/1/2005 7:33:56 PM NOSValves wrote: ---------------- On 5/1/2005 3:43:43 PM TBrennan wrote: I dunno, I don't pay much attention to model numbers of electronics anymore, they change so fast. And to read the numbers on the gear I gotta put on my reading glasses which is a hassle. I'll call Kurt tonight and find out. ---------------- Do you put in your hearing aids to hear them? I sure hope so.... ---------------- ROTFLMAO too funny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

---------------- On 5/1/2005 6:45:57 PM Buck wrote: Russ, How would you describe the sound of the carver. I have heard it has tube like characteristics but the info/reviews out on these amps seem to be hard to find. Jeff ---------------- very smooth sound...esp in the upper registers... i've used other solid state amps with my KLF-30's... and there was always a hard edge in the upper registers.... that hard edge is not there with the carver ZR1000... very smooth...yet i get a ton of power and bass control with this amp and alot more detail in the highs than i have ever heard with a tube amp... on my speakers or any other speakers... as for reviews.... here is a thread from audio circle on the ZR1600..... http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/viewtopic.php?t=5201 "The ZR 1600's sound is easily characterized and stayed essentially the same in two systems and on four different speakers: clean, clear, explosive, forward, dynamic, lean and tight. There is no "liquidity" to the sound and anyone who hears anything reminiscent of tubes from the Carver should do a direct comparison. The presentation can be very exciting. Compared to the Ampzilla there was considerably less front-to-back and side-to-side depth from the soundstage. The first octave output was considerably stronger from Ampzilla, whose smooth quality was almost a polar opposite from the brash Carver. There is little to no warmth from the Carver and I undamped my speakers (RM 40 and RM 2) to compensate, redamping when I switched back to Ampzilla. Who wants the ZR1600? IMHO people with warm-sounding cone dynamic speakers with softdomes. The unit tightens up underdamped bass and really projects into the room. Owners of metal-dome systems might find the Carver's aggressiveness detrimental, and planar owners might go either way. I liked the sound I got in my room from virtually all program material, and I used a lot of it over 3 days to make my evaluation. With all the good I must report some bad. The ZR1600 has a flaw which you may or may not be able to live with: upper trebles (10kHz and up) are gritty and somewhat artificial. High percussion shows this clearly, but surprisingly violin and piano (Lara St John/Sarasate) was fine, not edgy or irritating. The grit was more evident once I started listening for it, having been alerted by the sandpaper maracas of the "West Side Story" original cast album (cut 7, "America"). I would dearly love to install RCA's and short out the no-name 12 cent electrolytic input coupling caps. Modders, man your irons! The unit responded so well to the removal of adapters and level controls that I will do no more listening until Wayne Wanaanen can send me a 1.5m pair of his splended Bybee interconnects with RCA's on the preamp side and 1/4" phone plugs on the other. I could easily understand the rock and jazz listener preferring the ZR1600 on many speakers. However, I found my much more expensive Ampzilla monoblocks outpointing the stock ZR 1600 (did I mention those mods I recommend?) in naturalness, soundstage, lowbass, and upper treble. The Ampzilla had resolution equal to the ZR1600 with considerably more warmth and a pleasant, engaging listening quality. The Carver, on the other hand, engages you by the throat! The full sonic potential of the ZR 1600 remains to be explored. I would also like to see some of the technical issues address (see posts on bench tests performed by me and John Curl). It will be interesting to hear from VMPS/ZR1600 owners as to the listenability and long term fatigue, if any, from their particular combo of amp and speaker. I will report further once my 1/4" phone plug terminated IC's come in."

---------------- On 5/1/2005 6:24:12 PM Buck wrote: Russ, Ever thought about grabbing the second 1000 and having 700x2 or am I just insane. I am personally considering the one on Agon for my Dean G modded RF7s'. Do you think it would sound much different than my 325x2 Anthem Statement P2. ---------------- never thought about needing more power than my 225 watts per side.... the only time i reached the max output on my ZR1000 was on the cannon shots on the telarc 1812 SACD..(running my KLF-30's set to large) i am planning to get another ZR1000 for my surrounds....... i have never heard the anthem amp you mention so i cannot comment on that particular comparison

---------------- On 5/1/2005 5:51:26 PM NOSValves wrote: ---------------- On 5/1/2005 5:30:08 PM DeanG wrote: Craig, cut Kev some slack will ya. He was playing off my earlier post -- he didn't mean anything by it. Tom, that's a weak point. Unusual for you, you must be losing your touch. He builds and sells what he does because he believes it sounds good. Only an idiot builds and sells what he thinks sounds like crap. ---------------- That would be Tom! If he can make a few more bucks for doing less he's on it! ---------------- no... he's just off his medication again something his therapist warned him against

---------------- On 5/1/2005 5:03:18 PM TBrennan wrote: Russ---Save your soft-soap, false sympathy and hypocritical hand-wringing. Of course you're my enemy here. That is clear by your demeanor on this thread and in one in which we argued politics. You came to this thread simply to bust balls and get attention and now you're going "who me?". Go play with the Indian girl on a Land o Lakes box, I'm sure that will amuse you. ---------------- keep up your childish postings and the moderators will delete this thread.... good luck with your therapy i'm sure all of us on this forum will appreciate your recovery

---------------- On 5/1/2005 4:47:39 PM TBrennan wrote: You and I are enemies... ---------------- LOL obviously, you need counseling of some sort..... this is an audio forum...... too bad you feel that anyone could possibly be an "enemy" on an audio forum is the sign of a deranged mentality..... good luck with your philosophy.... so sad

the point is that you post this thread raving about the japanese digital receivers.... that are soooooooooo much better than anything else you heard in that setup (your own words) i present my experience with another commercial product that was received with less than an enthusiatic reception on this forum...... and for unknown reason.... you go into great detail about the DIY tripath amps that you have heard in the past.... although you never seemed to post any rave reviews about those amps it seems that these DIY amps did not sound as good as an entry level japanese digital receiver..... so why even bring them up????? btw - a friend of mine has a panasonic XR-25 receiver (i can pay attention enough to get the model number)... that sounds very good.... but it does not have the guts of my carver pro ZR amp... or the ultimate detail in the upper register