RoboKlipsch
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Posts posted by RoboKlipsch
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9 hours ago, dimanata2007 said:
I rerun Audyssey yesterday again and the had the same noise. No errors, everything went smooth, but the noise is clearly present...
SOME models of Denon, including my x4000, turn on and off the various amp channels as it calibrates. Between each speaker you hear a click as it turns off those channels and turns on others. The amp channels are discrete and thats how it does it. My older 3808ci does not do this (at least audibly) but the x4000 does. I believe that is your issue and is normal. Thr x4000 also does this as different sources come in, just part of how it works. Even as it goes between programs and commercials and the processing changes i.e. dolby digital to something else...it clicks.
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21 hours ago, Diesel said:
But in the test tones dont you set all you db levels at default 0 then turn your volume up to a certian point then adjust your db level till your meter hits 75db i just need to know where do i start with the volume level.
The advice provided is excellent.
Matching spl at the listening position for each speaker is one component of manually calibrating your system. In a manual setup where 0 is max....it would be the max power thr avr can produce but not referenced to a particular spl level.
Audyssey is a theater autocalibration and that is how you can set 0 to 75db. It measures your speakers in your room using your particular avr at the exact distance of your first measurement and sets 0 to 75db with a peak capability of 105db. If you calibrate at 10 feet away and then recalibrate at 20 feet away everything is remeasured to match reference...and 20 feet uses double the avr power at least for the front channels. But most avrs including your Denon allow you to turn it up past 0 to use all the avr power should you want to. So nothing is left on the table...or the avr to be exact.
Same for subs...they may well have a lot more capability than needed for calibration.
You cant manually adjust what 0 is because its a reference standard that autocal determines. So if you go manual and 0 is your systems max, what that db is will again vary depending upon all the factors of your setup.
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Above 500hz most speakers are directional. Really above 200 or 300 in most cases.
Google avsforum and vbbs build for amazingly cheap power subs known for midbass....also note any pa460 build threads in the diy forum.
When a speaker plays down to 20 or 30 its not optimal to have it play above 150ish....it takes away some of the ability to crank out the low end but does work.
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All are good. From the outlet is a full warranty. Beware private sellers selling one bought in last 5 yrs that say they dont have a warranty....they are "hot".
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Re crossovers i was referring to 2 or 3 way speakers....its a art to do them right. How you use your subs is a choice of course and whatever you like is what u should do. You like midbass if that is thr case and if so you should consider building dayton pa460 subs known for massive midbass ☺
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Multiple subs are almost required imo. One great sub will almost never br as good as 2 3 or 4 lesser subs. I would take 4 pb1000s or 2 pb2000s over a pb16 for example. I have 2 monster subs w 18in drivers and 2 large 15s in one theater....easily plays down to 10hz flat in room well past reference ...build your subs its much easier than mains. Look at diysoundgroup for awesome speaker kits at cost. Amazing quality worth 4x their cost imo. Crossovers are difficult to design.
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17 minutes ago, vasubandu said:
I cannot find anything about it. Part of the mystery and allure. But the reference to the 4000 is apt. Those are intriguing as he'll, especially the cylinder. Have to think some more.
As for old, @jjptkd just sold me a 2004 speaker for $400. Did he rip me off?
speakers are different than subs which havd built in amps
ive bought a rsw15 that was that old and it was great
if u were in the svs forum and were a huge fan id say go for it
but check out the performance of the b4 vs say a pb2000 or imo...buy 2 pb2000s used for less than the b4 or the new 4000 and get better performance. subs arent like speakers they are purely a matter of performance unless u have a reason to want a particular model
i think the pb1000 is just short of being great performer but the 2000 is excellent. used around 500 to 600 is a good deal
diy is even more value and nothing comes close....ported or horn.
2 or 4 pb2000s is all u would ever need.
b4 or b4plus was great in 2003
https://hometheaterhifi.com/volume_10_3/svs-b4-subwoofer-9-2003.html
imagine trying to replace a 2500watt amp from a 15yo sub😨
now imagine buying 2 subs that can each outperform it and they still are under warranty 🤠
with few exceptions like the klipsch rsws...subs are not about vintage....pure performance
i have 4 12inch infinity 1260s, 2 per sealed box and i can get to the b4 performance and they cost 300 with the boxes. in ported boxes they would win. technology and value imo are key
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No no hell no. Old is unreliable and the newer svs are better specs.
A new 4000 series or a used 13ultra imo is much better value and performance.
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Id buy new or used w warranty
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18 hours ago, tigerwoodKhorns said:
So how about a build that will fit in the following spaces?
up to about 7' or more long, 18" high (maybe another inch or so) and 18" wide max.
Or one or two that fit in the following area:
54" wide max, 14" high and maybe 30" deep (I can do two of these).
these are good horn sub dimensions
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the layout looks fine
consider a few sound panels along the side wall u sit closest to
no speaker or autoeq can overcome close reflections but 2 or 3 panels would be a HUGE improvement in clarity
if WAF factor matters u can buy them with custom prints so they would be artwork
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You need a dehumififier in that room imo. Above 50% mold can grow pretty easily, but as someone not living in a desert enviro I would guess the problem goes like this....it gets way hot during the day where the air can hold a huge amount of water (especially outside). At night in a desert the temp change is huge so even with ac theres a ton of water that condenses once the sun goes down. You could run a dehumidifier in that room anytime you arent using the system and I woild be surprised if it doesnt solve the issue.
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20 hours ago, vasubandu said:
Absolutely fascinating @RoboKlipsch. I very much appreciate the information. I particularly enjoyed your statement "it worked well I think everybody would do what you are wondering about." I don't mean that in a mean way, just that statements like that are what get me motivated. I now understand the whats and the whys much better.
Imagine a single speaker that ranged from 20 to 20,000 Hz. I mean a real full range speaker from 20 to 20,00 Hz with the ability to control levels across the board. Might be a waste of time, but if you think about it, why should we need separate subwoofers?
I appreciate your discussion of the complexities and the room effects. That would seem to make it hard to have a single full range speaker because the perceived sound would be different at different locations. I also appreciate the fact that things are done the way the way the are because a lot of very smart people worked very hard to figure things out. I will never have the abilities or skills they did, and I know that. But I find that goofing off with goofy ideas helps me to learn the parameters of new areas.
Then again, sometimes a novel or crazy idea actually works. I had an LED project that everyone said would not work, but did. And I was consulting with some really sophisticated people. So I figure it is always worth a little effort to try my crazy ideas.
These do in fact exist, and are quite expensive....http://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-speakers/702657-list-speakers-
and I can point you a DIY build where he not only has a 20 to 20000 response per speaker but actually has 25+ subs to supplement the bass. he has unlimited spl and can play subsonic frequencies up to an audible level....130+db at 10hz.....and it plays down to 3hz.
if you are truly curious buy a Umik and download a free copy of REW. measuring your own room will teach you....like most of us...as much or more than you could grasp just reading it.
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6 hours ago, vasubandu said:
@jjptkd and @CECAA850 you missed my wish. I want a receiver that sends different signals to left and right. I have to assume that the left and right signals include the information in subwoofer territory. So just imagine a car crash, but it is on the left side of the screen. Left Subwoofer goes BOOM and a second later, the right one picks up the echo with a boom. The sound may be omnidirectional, but that does not mean we can't tell where it is coming from.
While I am at it, I want a subwoofer that goes up to 300 Hz and works great at that level. So it would actually produce sound as well, but with a 15 inch plus woofer. And since it would be right or left, it would just supplement my mains.
And yes, I am just being silly, but I do wonder about these things. I need to learn more about how sound works, and I will. When my speaker brand comes out, you all get free ones.
If it worked well I think everybody would do what you are wondering about
there is a LFE channel that is mono and cuts off almost completely at 120hz...sub required to play this.
now what you consider is hmmm what about booms and crashes being directional from the directional channels? good thinking
two things --
1) where the L C R and surround speakers are placed is almost never the best place for subs...so putting a sub under or next to those speakers will be very unlikely to create a consistent flat frequency response....this is counterintuitive but bear with me
2) frequencies below 120hz have very little directionality in a room and in fact what sounds like you can hear them is a less than optimal integration of speakers and subs. its an odd concept to learn at first but true. thx specs a 80hz crossover precisely because with that setting the subs have almost no audible spl above 120hz....half an octave above 80hz. a sub or subs that dont have the proper timing (known as delay, and set in most avrs as "distance") can sometimes be located because they are out of synch with the mains. Also in most rooms the frequency response down low is quite different all over the room. so to a certain degree the bass is louder at some points in the room....thus more subs properly placed smooths this out through a cool concept of cancellation and addition.
some quality subs like svs do play to 300hz smoothly but nothing changes the fact that at higher frequencies, certainly over 200hz, you can localize them. so usually a setting that high is only used with very small bass limited speakers that cant play down low enough. its better to have a complete and smooth frequency response in room than to have a gap....but far better to have it also be consistent and not localizable
cool reality is multiple subs properly placed and integrated are impossible to locate by ear. the booms WILL come from the directional speakers because your ear can discern the direction of the higher frequencies and thinks all the sound comes from there. grasp these concepts and you begin to understand the magic of acoustics in small rooms
treating a room with sound panels is incredibly beneficial, finding the best location for subs is almost as important, then proper integration creates a true HT experience
take the time to read up on each of these....reap the benefits
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15 hours ago, CECAA850 said:
Run a single cable to the sub. Only use a Y if your signal from the receiver isn't hot enough or won't turn the sub on automatically. Running a Y at the sub is the same as turning your subwoofer output up in your receiver. It won' make your sub more powerful or increase its max output.
listen to this gent above all. he has 30k posts and moderates this forum
he helped me build some of my subs and knows a lot
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any would work very well imo. 260s are plenty,280s area lot bigger
with either the larger woofers in the 450c make better sense to me
i also own a 250c and love it. i may be the only one lol. i would not trade my 250c for a 440c...i dont want 4" woofers up front but am quite happy with the 250c with 2 5s
in a well treated room the 250c, used would be a good bargain, getting the 450c is overkil but is loved by many
at a 10ft listening distance you have enough power to be happy with any
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rc52ii is sold. ill say one last time the 52 series was awesome.
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18 hours ago, vasubandu said:
Ha ha @dmb12679. My current system should be fabulous with that it cost new and coming from Paradigm, but it just has no presence. So I am going for presence all the way. And this new system is really affordable for what it is. The RF-7, RC-7, RS-7, SVS SB2 Plus, and Yamaha RX-A2060 will cost me a total of $2,900.
The same money would get me a RP-250F, RP-440C, RP-240S, R-112SW system from Klipsch. That would be stepping down from 10" to 5.25" for the fronts. This is all completely new to me and I am very excited to see where it goes.
i had rf52s and an rc52 in one theater. in a large room i have rp160ms and the rest 5" drivers.
it is by no means certain or even true that bigger is better, just like new is not always better.
i would not change to rf7s in either of my theaters for free
once you learn to dial in a system well....especially a multisub system you quickly learn why big is not key
enough spl and consistent clear response is far more important
willand like many others loves his rf63s because they create a special experience....with 3 6" drivers
i built htm12s because the tweeter waveguide is 15" wide and creates more consistent response than any klipsch can do
the rp160ms have better high end response than any previous klipsch tweeter technology ive heard
you picked great speakers but my advice is size is not the only characteristic
getting good deals is the key so u can change whenever u want without losing a lot of $$$$$
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PB-2000 CEA 2010 Results (2 meter RMS)
- 20Hz 103.8 dB
- 25Hz 107.6 dB
- 31.5Hz 109.6 dB
- 40Hz 110.1 dB
- 50Hz 110.5 dB
- 63Hz 111.5 dB
Bassaholic Roomsize Rating: Large
Source: About.com Stereos from Brent Butterworth Testing
SB-2000 CEA 2010 Results (2 meter RMS)
20Hz 92.1 dB
25Hz 97.1 dB
31.5Hz 102.8 dB
40Hz 108.3 dB
50Hz 108.9 dB
63Hz 109.2 dB
Bassaholic Roomsize Rating: Medium
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audioholics has extensively tested svs subs as has data-bass
audioholics does max testing which is helpful too
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22 hours ago, Niterox said:
Hmm. My front and center speakers are on a cabinet directly under the flat screen, about 14 feet from my chair, pretty much straight on. The sub is on the floor, to the left of the cabinet at about 13 feet from the chair. It is behind a side table and kind of blocked by a chair, but I did not think that mattered? Unfortunately, I don't have a lot of options for placing the sub.
what u describe all sounds fine
the sub. behind a chair or in a corner is fine but if u could try moving it another foot or two away from any near wall u might solve part of it. a sub near a wall can boom at some frequencies and correction cannot always fix all of it. if some midbass frequencies are too strong it will mask the clear voicing u want from the center. i doubt the center placement is an issue but the symptom of one sub sounding like too much screams of a placement or gain issue. if the avr is dialing the sub in a range not at the extreme then gain is ok. if the gain is ok then the placement must be causing this issue.
u could have 20 subs in a room and if properly placed and dialed in would not be too much. it would just be very co sistent throughout the room. so thats my 2c....its the sub
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On 12/28/2017 at 11:01 AM, RoboKlipsch said:
the room itself is usually the culprit
in your case what stands out is the bass is too loud...rare in an autosetup
since you hear the tv well and not the speakers id venture a guess that most or all the speakers are up against walls and need to be moved out. or perhaps you are running the fronts as Large and using a sub which is not working well....or third the crossover setting is too low potentially. all guesses without knowing more
in most untreated rooms bumping the center a few db will help.
some cable stations like tnt and scify are notorious for compressing the dynamic range makingvolume esp for voices awful
you have not properly addressed this....i believe it is the sub positioning
if a sub booms it will muddy everything
i have 4 and 6 subs in average rooms and it isnt too much but would be if not properly placed
fundamental setup basics must be addressed first
where is the center channel...perhaps in an entertainment center?
these issues can be easily fixed
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the room itself is usually the culprit
in your case what stands out is the bass is too loud...rare in an autosetup
since you hear the tv well and not the speakers id venture a guess that most or all the speakers are up against walls and need to be moved out. or perhaps you are running the fronts as Large and using a sub which is not working well....or third the crossover setting is too low potentially. all guesses without knowing more
in most untreated rooms bumping the center a few db will help.
some cable stations like tnt and scify are notorious for compressing the dynamic range makingvolume esp for voices awful
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spread will give more consistency left to right
if stacking height modes can be tamed if 2 could be raised up higher than just stacked, something in between, say a stand or shelf
subs in back or on sides provides better front to back consistency
nice looking speakers!
i would use the front corners no matter what else you decide...but that doesnt have to mean against the wall
SB-2000 CEA 2010 Results (2 meter RMS)
Receiver Match for New Speakers
in Home Theater
Posted
I find Denon avrs to be pretty honest about power ratings as each channel is discrete and bench tests have shown the numbers to be correct. I also like Audyssey and find it to be a great feature, especially dynamic EQ which turns up the surrounds and subs at lower volumes to match how our hearing works. Value wise they are an excellent investment.
Yamaha and really most avrs are fine because klipsch are so efficient they do not need much power to be as loud as most people like.
Consider used...imo its a bargain to buy a couple year old avr that someone is selling simply because they wanted to have the latest model.
A $1400 model new....if bought used is often say 600.