Srinath

Google it sir. Also I should say, I am very in tune with my body and I can tell when I have ghrelin, when I am insulin-ed up etc etc. That is why when I misdiagnosed my cramps on Nov 6 and panicked and scarfed down food and got out of keto etc etc - I remember it and am kicking myself for it. It is 1 rare blip in a good clean record. Shivering, being shut down as I refer to it etc etc are not bad signs neccesarily. Painful as hell, but not really worrisome. If you were shivering for a few hours, and then you suddenly start feeling nice and mellow, oh yea, you're done for. A period of inactivity when you're insulin-ed up = prime storage opportunity. Inactivity when you're not insulined up = slow removal of fat from storage just what is needed to keep your body working good, and not even really where it wants to warm your extremities. Eat a bit of fat, and it will wake up an hour or so, but soon, you're barely calorie deficient. Simple enough - Oh yea easy for me to say, I eat weeds and am happy about it. Cool. Srinath.

Only in the short term, and only in small quantities. Ghee is pure saturated fat. Unsaturated is fat better. Avocado oil, olive oil, coconut oil and flax oil all trump the bugger for good stuff. However Ghee coats your throat like nothing else. For staying power its the 90wt grease of the edible fat world. By end of this month I may be on a 60 hr eat schedule, if I am still dropping weight I'd go 36, then 24, then 2-3 a day. Once again weight is just an index, what I am after is visceral fat. One of those DSM-BIA things is on its way to me as I speak. I got 1 lb extra fat where I can find it. How much is there between my organs is anyone's guess. A home DSM-BIA hopefully can tell. Cool. Srinath.

Politically ???? most of the world, and most of America is on my left my friend. I recently rolled a generator into my container and I eat the weeds growing in my yard. Does that tell you where I might be ??? You don't prepare for Armageddon by buying and hoarding cans of food. You prep for Armageddon by identifying everything you already have and knowing what you can eat and when. BTW 99% of my yard by species and about 75% by area is edible, about 40% by area tastes good, and the 35% that's left, about 1/2 - 17.5% tastes bad, and the other 17.5 tastes tolerable. Besides I've already proved I only need to eat every 13 days. LOL, maybe that's how you get ready for Armageddon. Cool. Srinath.

I have 2 boxes of that, plus that thing called Pyure in 2 different forms. Bitter as hell. but I possibly being Asian have more bitter receptors in my tounge than people of European descent. Apparently being in the tropics means lot more food tended to rot more often, so we evolved to detect it better by having the sensors fire for anything and everything. LOL. Probably not. One is a chemical, the other is a part of a plant not too different from a mint plant. The shocking thing about sucralose is how little you need to get that first sip to hit you like a sledgehammer. In fact its diluted to 25% because @ full strength, you cant even put the amount small enough with out possibly needing surgical grade equipment. Shocking. Either way, short term use for me. 6 weeks or so. My inlaws have been on it for 15 yrs and in their 70's pushing 80, no ill effects so far. But they would also being diabetic still eat 3 X a lb of white rice @ ever meal of the day. I cut out rice first, followed by bread. Lost 19lbs without even knowing. I plan on making rice out of my giant puffball mushrooms (bland flavorless mushrooms) and steaming them for when I needed rice. And make pasta/noodles out of em too and cut em into bread. Lucky me, they grow wild in my yard, and are very bland and absorbent. Cool. Srinath.

I don't care about 140 or 150 or whatever the scale says. I am after 10-20 grams of visceral fat. And no, its not that kind of "shutdown". I'm lighter today than on Dec 10, way lighter, nearly 10lbs lighter, but no sign of shutdown today and no eating fat even. When you're not doing anything, your body wont be burning anything especially when you have not provided it the nitrous as carbs. When burning fat, you are in for a slow and constant burn. Mild activity is needed to keep it tapped. We can argue about it all night my friend, I have the science behind this correct, ever though it flies in the face of everything coke and pepsi have based their quadrillion $$$ empire on. No anorexia, no obsession with weight, or size or body image. Care nothing about those. I'll be happy @ 300 lbs, if the20 gm of visceral fat were to be removed and would stay away. I'd hit the buffet every day 2 X on sunday if I know it wasn't coming back cos I got some type of immunity. Your science is popular, and backed by billions of sponsored results aimed to sell junk to people along with the related diseases, and the medication. My Sucralose use is a temporary crutch, and we also lived for 50,000 years eating sweeteners in things which sadly have been evolved out of the earth. BTW, I'm dropping sucralose End of this month. 6 weeks on it to get the visceral fat cos otherwise there is no way to get enough fat in me. I listen to this crap every day from my co workers and even my boss - who coolly says "you don't eat lunch, so why don't you cover this when we're all going to lunch". I said, that's when I am planning to walk outside with these dumbells. He then gave me a different time. Cool. Srinath.

I don't know who Mark is - but I mis spoke. Its Johnson and Johnson vs Coke. What can I say, big pharma vs big coke. I think stevia may be natural, and may work for some people, but it causes an insulin reaction in me I think, maybe worth testing it too in a bit. Aspartame too but a smaller one. Cool. Srinath.

Hey, I have weeds growing in my yard that I eat. In fact this yard have never been hit with herbicides. Curly dock, dill, wood sorrel, dandelion, cleavers, miners lettuce, cranes bill, pony's foot, gout weed and meadow mushrooms, turkey tail, giant puffball mushrooms. That's not even counting the pecan and hickory nut trees. That's just what I have identified. I have enough here to keep the round up factory busy for 100 years. And I aint ever hitting these with round up, I'm eating them. Curly dock IMHO is god's idea of telling me - hey, eat this, you will still be insulin fasting if you ate a dinner plate full, just slather it with fat. Ooooo sorry you guys meant the other "weed" naaa I don't got that. Cool. Srinath.

No, they look like Bose 8.2's. IMHO, not a bad speaker, if only bose had put a real tweeter in those things. I have an electrostatic version of those made by pioneer pax20e, complete with a corner cab made of wood. real wood. And I think somewhere I also have the pax30e. Yea I have a lot of crap. Cool. Srinath.

Ummm no. Rather, completely irrelevant. As per my wife, I downed over 1500 calories (and she could be exaggerating) on dec 10 and 11. So I am not starving by any stretch of the imagination. IMHO. F.A.S.T stands for Fat, Acid, Salt and Tea. LOL. Today was a great day, barely 2 tbsp. oil, maybe 4-5 of heavy cream, and nothing else with any calories. And 3/4 way through my 9th quart of water. Great day, I moved some audio equipment into my container and had a issue free work day. Beautiful day. This being a 144lb, 5' 10.5" man with a small/medium frame. Yea, I claimed I was large. and oh yea, I turned 48 today. So let me be clear. I am not starving. I am getting rid of insulin. No insulin = no way to store fat. There is no way for your body to do any storage without insulin. However no insulin is not possible. Insulin is a continuum. @ insulin level of 2 you're storing probably 1/2 of what you would @3 and so on. Every number up, doubles the fat storage ability. 2 would be in Peter Atila territory. He said he can eat 200 gm simple carbs in 1 sitting if he had adequate prep time and still not get out of ketosis. For me, that number is closer to 100. Of course I don't weight train or ride a bicycle like a maniac. I drive this here desk all day and sometimes all night. However if you haven't eaten and have an energy expenditure your body produces a nasty little hormone called Ghrelin. The only purpose of Ghrelin is to hurt you enough to want to eat. There is just about 2 hrs where it is active, cos more than that will burn your stomach lining. Then ghrelin disappears and is replaced by a hormone called cortisol. This guy turns you hyper (you have to hunt for food) and stores fat. You have to stop the ghrelin. A nice little sip of olive oil, or a tsp of butter will do it quite nicely, give you a tasty mouth feel and fuel you for 10-20 mins, in which time your body has tapped into the nice fat buffet it has on board. Only problem is, if you're driving a desk for a living like me, that lasts 1/2 hr, maybe an hour, before the way to the buffet has been forgotten. You have to repeat the butter/oil. Especially if the buffet is running low. So If you're 100 lb overweight, easy, 1 time you show your body the way to the buffet, it will keep running up there and burning like crazy, to the extent that 4 days after you eat, your base metabolism has increased. Then you get ~9 days of a return to normal metabolic rate, after which you run a small risk of dropping metabolism and muscle loss. However on my 19 and 3/4 day fast, I managed fine on day 17-19, bad days were 14-15. If I recall, but I believe it was due to the fact that I did nearly nothing on those 2 days. I ate oil and butter. And pure fat mayo, mustard, peppers etc. Really, you need to be in the low teens for Body fat % for any issues to come up with your body burning fat. Even so, strategic eating of fat will get you past those little bumps in the road. I ate 5-6 table spoons of Mayo, horse radish, garlic and pepper mashed up yesterday, and still was in shutdown mode. I guess I have more bad days than good, but I recognize these days for what they are and compensate. Nice warm day like today with nice light activity lugging audio equipment and playing with the neighbors cat all helped get over the mid-day hump. Plus the fact I have 4 warm days coming and I'm gonna be planting some goji berries soon all have me pepped up. Scales are coming tomorrow, will tell me all sorts of things, and I'm getting tested for everything under the sun tomorrow. Oh, I didn't even remember that I am hitting buffet tomorrow with my wife in this list. Well its there, but only cos its with my wife, and I get to play hooky from work for 4-5 hrs. Cool. Srinath.

TBH with you guys, chasing the last 10 lbs is no where near as easy as the first 90 was. There are days where my body is in shutdown mode all day. I drink sparing quantities of oil (olive oil, avocado oil, MCT oil, coconut oil, flax oil, butter and ghee - sometimes all in tight sequence) and that is mostly in an effort to stay calorie deficient and yet provide enough to burn and keep me going. But before I hit the 150 mark and stayed under 150 (about 10th dec), I was flying high. Good energy, and good mental clarity and happy and ready for anything. Today is a great day, but yesterday and day before weren't. Today I drank about a TBSP of olive oil to go move stuff from my house to the storage container, and realized it was 75 degree outside and the 150-200 calories of olive oil are a waste. If you start @ 240 lbs The first 20 ~10% - walk in the park. The next 70 ~30% are a jog through a hilly forest. The last 10% are a climb up a cliff. Cool. Srinath.

Here is just 2 small points to remember. 1. Human body is designed to burn fat, and use fat as primary fuel source. Not carbs, carbs are the nitrous bottle, fat is the unleaded. That's why there is many many pathways for fat burning and just 1 (insulin) for carb. 2. Humans especially of European descent went for many many weeks if not months without eating. Why ? hunter gatherers and farmers had very little to eat in winter. Look those up if you prefer. We don't reverse 50,000 years (or even more) of evolution in 50 years of coke and pepsi. Cool. Srinath.

You were on the classic Calorie reduction as primary diet. Didn't touch you insulin. May have even raised it. Did you get those numbers from before and after ??? I've put in what I have observed in each line. Cool. Srinath.

That is a very "advertised" reasoning. Excellent marketing department, both coke and pepsi have endorsed it. That's a collective $30 trillion world wide. Same geniuses who push stevia and criticize sucralose. Cool. Srinath.

I'd have added this 1 item to your list. Mostly cos I like this but it would have got you there faster. Skip breakfast. Or just black coffee, or tea. Then slowly move lunch later and later, and dinner earlier and earlier, till you're eating in a 1hr window. I did that for 28 or so days, till Oct 12th, when I forgot to eat, bingo, 2 day fast, it was so easy, I went to 3, then 5, and then I had my blood test on Oct 26th. Then did an 8, then a 6 (due to a disastrous set of cramps and poor trouble shooting) then 9, 9, 19, 4, 2, 1, 5, 5, 2, 2, and the current 9. Guys I've heard all the comments before. They have been ironed out in several 1000 Type 2's Dr Fung has cured. If something worked for you, great, its likely due to the biomarkers you started out with, but those are not my bio-markers. And more interestingly, the first 20 went without me doing anything. A 20 lb weight loss is the little headphones with the name Klipsch on them that are cobbled up by orphans in china whose parents had their land confiscated and sent to "re-education though labor" camps where the parents worked to death. yea its a klipsch alright. It says so right on it. I'd say real weight loss begins after the 40lb mark. A 100 lb loss is a 1959 Khorn. I am not there yet. I plan to get there, and if this cumulative softball sized clumps are not gone, keep going till they are. Tomorrow my bio markers will tell me how I did from my 1/2 way point to now. Insulin level before (would have been nice) during was 5.1 and a second during - and maybe 1 more at the end. Those tells the full story. Cool. Srinath.

Insulin is the gatekeeper of fat. If its up, fat flows into cells. If down, fat flows out. Simple. Get rid of it, and be calorie deficient and you lose weight, exercise optional. With a 2000 calorie deficit a day you should lose just about 2/3 of a lb a day if its mostly fat. Its split as ~1/2 lb fat and 1/6th lb water. Why ??? Fat has less water than your overall body. Cool. Srinath.

Test your fasting insulin. My bet, its under 5. Likely depending on how fast your weight loss was, under 4. My very healthy, greens eating vegetarian but still borderline over weight wife had 3.7 without any help from IF. After 6 weeks of IF+6 more weeks of Atkins + 6 more weeks of watching my bad carbs and fat and calorie counting (so much so that I skipped eating 2-3 more pieces of rasmalai @ my niece's wedding reception) On Oct 26th after losing nearly 50 lbs, I read 5.1 for insulin. My A1C was 5.3 then down from 5.9. My wife was 5.7 and FBS was 92. I was 5.3 and 70. But 5.3 of insulin = I am not out of the woods yet. Under 2 = I am home free. I am hoping it gets under 3 tomorrow. IF isn't to lose weight. It is to get rid of insulin, and hence get rid of insulin resistance. BTW if you're calorie deficient, and insulin flooded which I would have been with a Calorie restricted crash diet - I'd lose weight, but It would be 75% muscle. Guess what, I'd have lost weight impressively. Cos muscle only give you 4 calories a gm, and if you're 400 calories in the hole a day, that's 100 gm muscle. Or, its more like 75 gm muscle and 10-11 gm fat (75% calories from muscle) Also, most of the first 20-30 lbs lost (10% body weight) is all mostly water. The usual saying is, anyone can lose 20lbs, the next 20 is 10X harder. Like mine, 238-219 I went without even realizing it. Then I was stuck @ 219 for 7+ weeks. Likely the atkins crap got in the way. Greens and chicken etc etc all work, to keep your weight. Or to lose that first 10%. Not if your goal is 100 lbs. BTW I had and still have no weight target in mind. I need this handful ~1lb - gone, and keep it gone for 3-4 months to get the visceral fat outta there. The numbers on the scale don't matter. My new scale would have many more numbers. Those matter more. Cool. Srinath.

Wont work for an insulin resistant person. BTW, I drink 2 gal water a day. That is a permanent change I will be sticking to. And hurt myself on this diet - my bio markers tell a different story, I have actually not had normal BP in 30-40 yrs. They started reading a bit low in sept (when I was @219) and I get into the 170's and its reading lower than 120/80 most of the time, 110/72 or so @ last check. Healthy and plant based and minimal meat all = bad. However no junk or processed - true, that is good. My end goal is to calorie count, cos its good for maintaining weight. But losing weight the right way - no. The right way to correct type 2 diabetes is to get rid of insulin. There is no other way. Intermittent fasting does that far better than anything ever thought up. Cool. Srinath.

Not crash diet, its intermittent fasting. Crash diets rely on low calorie food. Fat is 9/gm, carbs are 4/gm and protein are also 4/gm. However most protein has fat accompanying it. So carb heavy food is in the crash diet. Causing an outsized insulin spike, overloading the already fatty liver and the clogged pancreas. You must have a good insulin sensitivity to have lost weight on a Calorie restriction as primary diet. You have resistance like all type 2 diabetics it wont be happening. BTW I plan on eating everything I like once I am @ my target weight. Why ??? because I'd have visceral fat @ the level I have not had since I was 3. You take insulin shots ??? so after a coffee with proper milk and sucralose have you had to take it ? or atleast did you read higher blood sugar than immediately before ?? I should probably get one of em pin prick meters and just check it myself. But they dont give me what I want - which is the insulin in my blood. Cool. Srinath.

100% - you got me. I know quite a few 1's. And kids with it. You have to be treated, and take shots etc etc. My heart goes out to you. Oh, let me ask - if you had just fat and say tea or coffee with sucralose - would you need an insulin shot after that ??? Did any of the other sweeteners need insulin ?? BTW milk protein is a big insulogenic substance too, another reason people on atkins shakes don't lose weight. Sucker has an ocean's worth of whey. You might as well suffer for nothing if you're trying to lose weight but still drinking atkins crap. Thanks. Srinath.

I suspect stevia and aspartame give me an insulin reaction. Splenda does not. I suspect this from the way I feel, but one of these days I will test it via a few blood draws, once I find a lab that will draw and test me as a walk in. And that was Splenda, nor sucralose. I have tried it @ my office where its free, before I committed to buying sucralose. Sucralose has another bad habit atleast for me. I have so far drunk 6 big cups of chai. Yesterday I drank 7 but 3 were a bit smaller, same amount of. I am getting ready to make the 7th, but am postponing it to when the lady and kiddo will be slinging dinner. So I can socialize with food. 7 cups of chai are 2 X what I can drink with sugar in any 24 hour window. It doesn't register as food or something. BTW I put pure fat in it, Heavy whipping cream. No insulin for me, 9 days without a insulin reaction = proper fast. Cool. Srinath.

AKA calorie counting. Excellent to stay @ the weight you are. Complete and utter disaster if you are trying lose weight, or trying to regain insulin sensitivity or cure diabetes, or even properly workout as a body builder. Its a lab experiment only in the eyes of Pepsi, coke and lots and lots and lots of other "snack" food manufacturers. Every biomarker of mine that was measured in May improved in Oct. And I was 30+lbs heavier in Oct than I am now. Balanced eating = you stay balanced @ where you are, while dying to go crazy @ a buffet for the rest of your life. Intermittent fasting = suffer for 6-8 months if you had a 100 lbs to lose (heck, knowing what I know now, I'd lose it in 1/2 the time - and maybe skip the sucralose time frame) and live your life. No need to count much of anything. I don't know what my insulin was in May, would have been an excellent one to have gotten. But Oct 26th I was 5.1. Tomorrow if its under 3, I will have effectively set my life back to 1985. Cos the last time I was a 30 waist was sometime in 85-86. No one will ever tell you to stop eating. Cos there is no way they make $$$$ there. No one will tell you to forage for your food, cos no $$$ to be made there - which I did and ate a wonderful meal on the 18th of Dec - the best name for it is weed salad - I harvested all the weeds from my property and started my meal with that. I ate curly dock, lemony sorrel and fresh dill salad - any 1 of these 3 will have the round up sales man ready @ your door with the sprayer in hand in exchange for your credit card - and yet, curly dock in a 100 gm serving has 4gm carb, 3.6 of which is fiber. Its not as nutrient dense as spinach or kale, but that fiber number is unmatched. 1/2 gm protein and 1/4 gm fat makes it a free food for anyone trying to lose weight. And 100 gm is a dinner plate piled high, you cant eat it. There is so much of it. I'll tell you one more thing - maybe this will hit home with someone - You go into goodwill or a yard sale and buy a pioneer sx1250 for $10 - and yes I have done that exact same thing - the first people who will stand there and curse/ridicule you will be pioneer sales people. Same analogy. You don't eat and get healthy - coke and pepsi and insurance companies and doctors go broke. Obviously they want you to eat breakfast within a minute of waking up "to jump start your metabolism". Bullcrap. Your metabolism has been jumpstarted via "counter regulatory hormones" your body made ~3am. Long since started and running. No need to confuse it now and cause an insulin spike. BTW 8 days after any solid food, and 9 days after a real meal, I am actually ambivalent about hitting the buffet tomorrow. However I made a commitment to the little lady and I have post prandial test tomorrow. So that means I have to eat. I got this covered. Please look up "Dr Fung Fasting" if you want a gentle on ramp into how to cure diabetes. Please Look up "Dr Mercola" if you want to get the shock of your life. And between these 2, Coke and pepsi have their Ace of spades and Ace of hearts (terrorist card deck of the Iraq war). When I have no grabbable fat, and my accurate scale says I got no visceral fat, I'll go to eating, I do remember eating is fun. But dying of diabetes and not eating proper sugary drinks (raspberry sweet tea) or the real Indian style sweet tea (chai) I'd make is not something I can live without. "Cure" is the name of the game. Not "treat" ... Hey, you walk out today and buy a Jubilee - so that you can avoid buy all the other ones - something like that. Cool. Srinath.

I was type 2 Pre diabetic 7 months and 100 lbs ago. FBS=99, A1C=5.9 and 238 lbs. I was fine and barely touched the sucralose till about 3 weeks ago. I am doing what I can only call medium term intermittent fasting. I eat only every 7-8-9 days. I am eating tomorrow, but my previous meal was on 4th Jan, (but I had a big helping of broth on 5th). next meal, lunch on 23rd, next one planned lunch on 31st but up in the air a bit. I am fat fasting lets call it that. My tea or coffee is a delivery vehicle for fat. Need that fat else I'd keel over - and I have done it a few times in the last few weeks. I may have 10 lbs fat left, only about 1lb I can see. Beer gut, gone, butt, gone, spare tire, gone, man boobs sorry never had em even when hitting a pothole on a bike, all the other accoutrements of being fat - history. I have to lose the 1 lb I can see and grab and stay that way for a month or 2 or forever. The idea is to get the fat you can see, cos that could mean all the fat you don't see also is greatly diminished. Visceral fat - all of it gotta go. Subcutaneous fat - its ok, fugly, but so am I now. I look like a skeleton in a trash bag. But, that's not the goal. Sucralose has helped me a good bit, and I only see another 2-3 weeks before I will probably go to eating every 60 hrs, then every 36 and then every 24 if I am still losing weight. However - sucralose can cause people to stall out on weightloss. You'd be starving like a MOFO and seeing the scale not move, and give up. Happened to me from sometime in June/july to sept 17 or so, because atkins shakes which I was drinking 1-2 a day due to my 100 mile 1 way commute have sucralose and acesulfame. Both cause water retention and stalls in weightloss due to that. Anyway I am going to say this just once. Splenda isn't sucralose. 95% of Splenda is harmful to the most important group of people sucralose is aimed @ helping. Dextrose and maltodextrin. 1 packet of Splenda counts as 1 gm carb. Sucralose is hard to measure but its far more diabetic friendly. 99% of information about sucralose is there to conflate Splenda with sucralose. Its possible the same people are spreading crap about sucralose cos they're selling "Splenda" hoping we wont notice. I dunno. Here is a side aspect I'd offer as a counterpoint to my countryman for developing Bose speakers and perpetrating that crap upon the world. Sucralose was discovered by another of my countrymen. One whose hand I'd definitely like to shake. Doctors tell you "lose weight" but their methods are either non existent or guaranteed to fail. I have followed a far far far more knowledgeable doctor, and the method he has taught did not exist 10 years ago. I'll let the science catch up, but the quantity I am using and my inlaws have used about the same amount for 15+ yrs, have not caused any issues. However for me, the weight is gone, the visceral fat is gone, and if my insulin drops into the 2-3 range tomorrow, and I lose the 1 lb I can grab, I'll go into a calorie count diet, and stay @ my healthy weight - which is around this 145 I am now. But that last grabbable handful has to go and stay away atleast a few months, and maybe I'd see a more accurate scale move down - eagerly awaiting a scale that has 100'ths of lb. In any case - off my soapbox now. Also one thing sucralose does not do - feed your good gut bacteria. Mine are in a state of shock @ how little food they have been given. And what is coming through, they cant live off. Bad thing is, sugar feed the bad ones more than the good. You have to cover the good ones with other ways, probiotic or prebiotics. Cool. Srinath.

Why ?? Sucralose is actually pretty good. It is very very close to sugar. The problem is, sucralose has been conflated with "Splenda" and Splenda completely isn't the same thing. Splenda has dextrose and maltodextrin. Completely negating the reason for a non carb sweetener. Cool. Srinath.

I've been experimenting with artificial sweeteners. So This is my question. Stuff sweetened with sucralose tastes super super super sweet first sip. Then they taste like no sweetener was put into it. It tastes natural and nice, just like sugar, but only that first sip. Has anyone found a way to make it taste even all the way across ? Now I have a weird way around it. Keep a oz or so of apple cider vinegar. And a tiny tiny sip of that, and sip of water will keep the tea or coffee still tasting sweet. Also fruit flavored drinks - lemon or raspberry tea tastes fine with sucralose except that first sip still is super super sweet. I have even tried 1 drop first sip and adding a second drop into the thing after, then 1st and 2nd taste sweet, and 3rd on is less, but still fine. Cool. Srinath.

I bought my Khorns too sight unheard, and the jam's and I have the EV version of the Khorn with the down firing woofer - a centurion, supposedly doesn't need a corner (had it a few yrs) in a bit of a "missing components" situation, which also is sight unheard. Yea ongoing theme when you collect crap @ the rate I have been. I have a lot of respect for 50's and 60's EV from my experience with the SP12b, and much of the respect I have for Klipsch is sort of reflected EV respect - cos I've never owned a big klipsch so far, just heard it off and on, know it does sound awesome - and I have spent some time collecting the correct drivers for that EV, just need a X8 and X36 pair now. Anyway, I have to set my HT room and what not in my new house and then I'd give it a proper listen. Cool. Srinath.