kink56

I bought an open box chip and dent from an authorized dealer and that is what I got, a damaged cabinet. So it may sometimes be the case, sometimes maybe not.

Yeah it is confusing why they are so inexpensive. The same seller has 3 sets of chip and dent Special Ed. Walnut Cornwalls for $1200 MORE: https://www.ebay.com/itm/KLIPSCH-CORNWALL-III-CALIFORNIA-BLACK-WALNUT-OPEN-BOX-MINOR-CHIP-AND-DENT-PAIR/372464977627?hash=item56b8a486db:g:RTUAAOSwt6NbvQyy:rk:2:pf:0 Now what is the better deal? I am not a fan of walnut as it seems to be the most common wood used for speakers and it reminds me of gun stock. (Even though I have a pair of Heresy IIIs in walnut). So, I bought a set of those rosewood Cornwalls! Too good to be true prices. I wonder if they are going to come out with a new Cornwall design soon with a larger tratrix mid horn like the one used on the Forte III? Since they have recently upgraded both the La Scala and K-horn, maybe an upgraded Cornwall is in the works? I have a set of Forte I with Crites Ti tweeter and crossover. And the mentioned Heresy III. I like both of them. So, I am thinking I will like these Cornwalls just fine. But I cannot help but wonder what a Forte III mid horn would sound like in the Cornwall. Of course I think it would also need a new crossover to compensate.

I think 70 pairs each were made for the Special Ed. matte black, rosewood, California black walnut and the Australian Walnut-70th anniversary Ed. So that is 280 pairs of special or anniversary Ed. Cornwalls. They are selling these as a pair for about the same price they are being offered as per speaker on other sites. In fact they are offering them for $1200 LESS than what they offer for a open box minor chip and dent pair of black walnut Cornwalls. I do not understand this pricing.

If you want to talk harsh, that would be the Ti mid diaphragms in the FIII to my ears. I currently have FI with the same mods as you and I had FIIIs for awhile. I sold the FIIIs and kept my modded FIs. So, I would stay put if I were you. Now that being said, I am curious if I would like the FIIs and maybe someday I will find out.

Thank you. Yep it IS heavy for sure. With 90 watts, it should have no problem driving just about any Klipsch ever made.

I bought this as a gift for someone but they already got one from someone else. So, I am trying to sell it. I have actually used this in my 2 channel system and it is quite powerful and sounds great. If you like the NAD sound this could be a good buy for you whether you use the surround or simply as a 2 channel setup. Here is the link to my ad in USAudiomart: https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649403339-nad-t753-av-surround-71-receiver/

nevermind

Well since I use a cross over to my subwoofers and my mains, None of that rumble transfers to the main speakers. AND, that does not account for all the ECM CDs that also have this problem in the 120-150hz area with the Belles. I think most can admit that ECM recordings are well above average when it comes to sound quality. Depending on the power amp I used for the mains (the power amp's input impedance affects the crossover setting), the mains do not "see" anything below 50hz to 100hz. So that theory is out the door. Let's hear some more from the apologetics. Keep searching for more excuses. This is beginning to be entertainment all in itself.

So we have those who acknowledge the Belles and La Scalas have the 7 dB hump around 150hz. But then there are others who say it is not the speakers fault and they tear apart the recording. I acknowledge the recording is not perfect, but it does demonstrate that 150hz problem effectively. But then again, there are some who cannot hear a problem. So, it is a mixed bag. It reminds me of how Christian "scientists" try to demonstrate how the Grand Canyon is evidence for the great flood. Some would rather blame ANYTHING than consider the Belles may have a problem with frequency response. (hey all they are doing is 100% accurately revealing exactly what is on the recording or the weaknesses of the amp, the room, and so on).

Well if your electro-stats have a subwoofer then you are right, it would not affect the electro stat portion of your speakers to over modulate. It is not my favorite demo song. It is my demo song to demonstrate the problem easily. So, if no other speaker other than Belles and K-horns (in my experience) presents a problem in the 120-150hz area then how it is the recording fault? This recording sounds just fine on my Fortes and my Heresys, and on ProAc Super towers and so on. Yes the rumble is still there, but that rumble does not make the acoustic guitar E and A string on that recording sound so extremely fat and blurred. And the same goes for acoustic bass on my ECM recordings in that frequency range. There were other popular albums with acoustic guitar that presented the same problem, but I do not recall them. I used this recording to demonstrate the problem because it is probably the most extreme and easiest to hear if anyone is going to hear or notice it at all other than myself. I have heard both Acoustat and Martin Logans back in the 80s, and I liked them enough I considered buying them. These particular models did not have a dynamic direct radiating woofer like more recent models do. They all but required you also buy a separate subwoofer (which I already had by then anyway).

Hey the sub sonic rumble is not what I am talking about. And yes, that subsonic rumble would play havoc on electrostatic speakers. It would easily cause electro-stats to over modulate. That is not the issue. My system with my subwoofers easily handles that subsonic rumble and does not taint the rest of the recording I have heard the problem I am talking about with other recordings, but I really do not remember the exact recordings. Some were ECM jazz recordings. No, it is not the said distortion of the acoustic guitar that is causing the problem. The problem is if a recording has significant material in the 120h to 150hz range, especially if the instrument is struck or plucked (transient in nature) the inherent 7dB hump in the Belles is especially going to exaggerate those tones. It is simple science. It actually would be worse than using a graphic equalizer and only boosting 120hz-150hz up 7dB. And the problem is not going to show up in any significant way with Forte, Heresy, Cornwall or any of the direct radiating Klipsch speakers. It does not show up on headphones or any other speaker I have ever heard. So, unless you have a Belle, a La Scala or maybe even a K-horn, this is not going to be an issue. I am not complaining about the recording or the song. I just simply used that one song to take to the guy with the K-horns to find out if they had a similar problem that my Belles had. The reason ECM recordings are also a problem is the acoustic bass. Jazz bass players love to play (noodle) way up the scale and they easily and often get into the 150hz area. So it rendered ECM recordings unbearable for me too. And they are typically very well recorded. In fact when I tire of poorly recording popular music of all kinds, I throw on an ECM recording just to get my bearings back.

Oh I hear that on my Fortes and my old (now my friend's) ProAc Super Towers. But only the 120hz-150hz hump on the Belles and someone else's Khorns. I cannot imagine that hump would ever show up on even mediocre headphones.

Well I did not expect a problem with Cornwalls anyway. Yes, the rumbling is a separate thing, and probably intended as it is sprinkled throughout the recording.

Hey I am going to remain silent for awhile. Maybe the OP will magically return! 😆(for those conspiracy theorists on this thread)

The first song has a similar but less obtrusive effect with the electric guitar. But it sounds just like what the Les Paul and my Fender Twin Tweed amp sounded like when I had them. If you listen to the whole album, there are other songs with the same problem with the acoustic guitar shows up here and there. If you like saxophone, try to find Anthony Braxton's Seven Standards 1985 volume 2 on the Magenta label. You get to hear his fingers on the keys and his varying aperture technique. On one song he is passing more air through than needed to make the sax sound. You hear a lot of air over the sound of the sax.

Yes the two way Jubes are on my radar as well. Finding where to hear them would even be more rare than LS II I would think. I have very satisfactory subwoofers, so I am not concerned about bass extension. But that 120-150hz hump is a deal breaker! I have been bored and unmoved by speakers before, but never offended as I was with the Belles before.

Oh here is a list of all the stuff I remember ever owning, in no particular order: VM Model 562 record player Sherwood S-7900A receiver Dual 1220Q turntable/Empire cartridge DLK-3 speakers. Pioneer SX-880 receiver Kenwood KA-8100 integrated amp Klipsch Cornwalls SOTA Sapphire turntable Sumiko MMT tonearm Sumiko FT-3 tonearm Eminent Technology airbearing linear tonearm Grado TLZ-V cartridge Crown SL-2 preamp (times 4) Rogers Studio 1 (times 2 sets) ENTEC SW-1 subwoofer Threshold FET2 preamp Threshold S300 II power amp (times 3) Spectral DMC-5 preamp Perreaux Industries PMF-2350 power amp Spectral DMC-6A preamp Moore-Franklin Magnus preamp PS Audio 4.5 preamp PS Audio 5.0 preamp ProAc EBT (times two sets) Electron Kinetics Eagle 2A power amp (times 3) Electron Kinetics Eagle 2C prime ENTEC L-F10 subwoofer ENTEC L-F20 subwoofer Paradigm Studio 20 V3 speakers NHT Super One speakers NHT Super Zero speakers NHT 2.5 speakers Klipsch SB-3 speakers Crown PL-3 amp Crown PL-4 amp NAD C372 NAD 312 NAD 3155 NAD M3 NAD C326BEE NAD T-753 Infinity BU-8 subwoofer Allison Acoustics AL-10 subwoofer Polk Audio PSW-10 subwoofer Klipsch SW-311 subwoofer Magnavox CDB-650 cd player Philips CD960 (times 2) I had a LOT of CD players. Rega Apollo Pioneer Elite DV70avi DVD Oppo BDP-95 Marantz CDR-510 cd recorder Marantz PMD-331 cd player Marantz PMD-371 cd changer Sony CDP-322M Sony CDP-CE375 Tascam CD RW900SL (times two) Tascam CD 200 Tascam CD 200SB Tascam CD-355 changer Onkyo DX-390 CD changer Onkyo recorder Teac CD P1500 CD changer Teac CD P1100 Klipsch Forte I Belle Klipsch Xiang Sheng 728A tube preamp Klipsch Forte III Klipsch Heresy II Klipsch Heresy III Threshold FET One ProAc Response 1S ProAc Response D2 Proton AA-1150 Proton D1200

Yep, my main and my bedroom system is listed on my profile page. Do you need to know my computer/office system too? How about my car radio?

Do you belong to any conspiracy forums? I think I have my main system in my profile page, no? (I am not sure myself without looking, which I will after this post) I owned Cornwalls back in 1979 and all I remember is I listened to Heresy, Cornwall, La Scala and K-horns. This was BEFORE I knew how to set up speakers to image properly. I liked the K-horns but could not afford them. The Heresy was okay but no bass. And the La Scalas sounded harsh and "raw" to me. So I bought the Cornwalls. I could not tell you if they imaged well because of the way I set them up. I only had them for one year. Rogers Studio One replaced them and I considered them quite a step up. I have owned them up until about 5 years ago. (the Rogers).

Wow, that means I am NOT out of my freaking mind after all! Well, it is totally tolerable on my Forte I and my Heresy III. But once your attention is called to it, even on those speakers the memory of how it sounded on the Belles taints the experience. That is a good recording to point out the problem with the Belles, where on other songs it might not be as apparent. I thought that a lot of drums sounded like cardboard boxes on the Belles as well.

Well then, that would be great. Maybe at least you can perceive enough difference when the acoustic guitar on the song Birds as the low E and A string are plucked throughout the entire song, but evident immediately that you can report back that the character of the tone of that guitar is different between your two speakers. To me it is such a glaring problem it masks all enjoyment of that cut for me. And as I said, I hear it on other songs too, but this one is a dead giveaway. It is as if the resonance of the guitar, the microphone used to record it and the Belles all work together to exaggerate that 120-150hz area making it stick out like a sore thumb.

Well before I would sink almost $10K into La Scala IIs. I would have to find someone who owns them locally and take my Me And Armini CD with me!

Well then you are probably NOT going to run into the 150hz hump then, are you? I do not have this problem with Forte I or Heresy III. It is not as if you are going to hear it with any and all Klipsch speakers. Looking at the bracing on the MCM, I don't think they are prone to 7dB humps in the bass bin. I think the experiment would be moot. But still looking forward to what you hear. Maybe you have access to La Scala I or Belle to compare this song with. That would be informative.

Interesting. I have always thought it was the cabinet being excited by that frequency. So if it is the horn design, the new La Scala isn't that much different in bass bin design (horn configuration) from the La Scala I to alleviate this problem then?

Wow, now THAT'S dedication. I have not kept track, what speakers do you have? La Scalas? Believe it or not, I do not even attempt to keep track of who says what. I only read what is said, not who said it. Such is the way I am on any forum. I am all about content not authors.