JefDC
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Posts posted by JefDC
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Yes, you can use up to 5 channels externally if you wish to do so.
I don't understand your question but it is not possible to just combine the outputs of 2 (solid state) amplifiers i.e. 200W & 80W does not become 280W but will result in smoke coming out of the amplifiers.
Adding the seperate 3 ch amplifier will give you 8 channels (3x 200W and 5x 80W) but no decoder (Atmos or otherwise) to make use of those extra channels.
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4 hours ago, Haffster said:
Hi guys - I’m still very confused by the crossover switch on 500sa. I have them setup as front heights and still not clear whether that specific application is designed for the switch to be on Atmos or Surround.
I have a Marantz 5013 with a 5.1.2 setup, upgrading soon to a 5.1.4, will be adding another pair of 500sa as rear heights. Haven’t changed any crossover settings in the amp, just designated the speaker as front height. I want to be able to get this right first and then play around.
Would be grateful for any thoughts. Thanks
If you are using the 500sa as upfiring speakers then the switch must be in the Atmos position.
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Hello Bill,
then I think you have misunderstood something.
I would connect the 2 amplifiers as follows:
Height 2 Pre/Line Out from the RZ730/830 to the DVD Front (or Video 1) Input of the SR600 but actualy any of the inputs could be used
- I hope the schematic below displays as it should
The only difference with the 'Main' input is that the Volume knob is active.
One puts the volume knob on the SR600 in a fixed/known position and done.
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I'm confused - why can the Onkyo sr600 amplifier not be used as extra 2 channel amp ??
It has plenty suitable inputs to that purpose, what's the problem ?
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Hi Glens, I was answering to : <snip from OP> ... how the upward firing system works while just listening to you own CDs or streaming audio such as Spotify or Amazon, which are basically still in stereo.
Does any noise come out the top if you're not listening to Atmos-enabled audio? ...
When a normal Stereo source is the input my Denon AVR works as described.
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Hello,
the answer depends on the brand of receiver.
I'm using Klipsch RP-8060FA Atmos enabled speakers with a Denon AVR4300.
The Dolby Surround and DTS:X modes expand the 2 channel music to multi-channel with use of the Atmos modules.
For the sound simulation modes with 2 channel music there is a Speaker Select setting to use or not use the Atmos speakers. The result the depends heavily on the type of music and recording quality - with some types the simulations are excellent, Rock Arena sounds very nice with the Atmos speakers enabled IMO.
Hope this helps ... Jef
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Hello Ulrich,
I took a look at the specifications of your speakers and I think with your present settings you are overloading some of your speakers with Bass frequencies.
The recommended crossover frequency for the RP140 (atmos) is 150Hz according to the Klipsch manual.
Setting all the speakers as small and with a 80Hz crossover as mentioned by Bill in the previous mail is certainly to be recommended (with the ATMOS speaker @ 150hz)
Personally I would raise the crossover of the R-41M even to 100 or 120 Hz - this will offload the Bass freqencies for that speaker to your Subs and give you more headroom overall.
Best regards ... jef
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This seem to describe a possible solution:
https://fixed1t.blogspot.com/2013/02/koss-phase-22-quadraphonic-ear-pad-sock.html
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Hello Carpenter,
the article says that changing to 4 Ohms will bring the temperature down but at the cost of less maximum power.
See the text in red in your response: '... Denon could get 4-ohm certification (at a reduced power level) without making the receiver get too hot ...'
It actually means that the Denon's are not the best amplifiers for speakers which dip below 4 Ohm (as mine do) and the article even recommends using external amplifiers in that case.
If ones amplifier IS allready running too hot I still recommend to change to 4 Ohms and have a cool and trouble free amplifier but with reduced power versus a situation that the amplifier runs so hot that the video section starts to fail (as mine does).
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On 3/21/2019 at 1:51 AM, PK09 said:
Hi JefDC, Thanks for your reply. Right now my rear height atmos speakers are not working, I think because of not having enough channels in the receiver. Do I need to connect external amplifier to make use of these rear height speakers along with other speakers. Do you know what to look for when buying external amplifier e.g. compatible with Denon receiver and number of ext amp channels etc.
Hello PK,
for the external amplifier you can use any 2 channel amplifier with a power of 50 Watts (and up) for the rear channels.
If you want to use the external amplifier for the front speakers it would be a good idea to get a stable quality amplifier from 100 Watts (and up).
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Hello Spencer,
I have a Denon AVR 4300H (same model but 2 years older than the 4500) and the amplifier has the same issue. It gets very hot, up to the point that the video circuit starts to fail. (I mentioned this in another thread a few weeks ago).
I have changed the (standard) impedance setting of the amplifier from 8 Ohms to 4 Ohms after which the amplifier runs much cooler and without video hick-ups.
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Hello PK,
you have the following options with your equipment:
you can make a:
7.2.2 configuration (2 Atmos speakers functional - front or back but front preferred).
5.2.4 configuration (4 Atmos speakers functional but no Surround Back)
If you connect an external amplifier you can make the
7.2.4 configuration
The external amplifier can be set to power the 2 front speakers or the rear height speakers.
Hope this helps.
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It is certainly no 'audiophile pig slop' but physics - an amplifier must (be able to) deliver what is requested by the load.
As a loudspeaker presents a reactive load (inductive and/or capacitive - meaning current has to be delivered out of phase with the voltage) the situation is actually even worse as the amplifiers are measured with a resistive load.
But I see arguments arise which cannot be solved through the keyboard, the easiest solution is to borrow an amplifier and see whether it makes a difference in a particular situation.
With subwoofers the discussion changes completely off course as dedicated amplifiers are used and the main amplifier is released from the burden.
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I have experienced a similar situation (lack of bass) with my RP-8060FA speakers.
They where powered by a Denon AVR4300 amplifier, this amplifier is rated 130 Watt @ 8 Ohm and 190 Watt @ 4 Ohm. At first glance these figures appear more than enough, but as the older speaker model (RP-280FA) had an impedance which dipped below 3 Ohm I suspect the RP-8060's are similar and it seems the Denon cannot supply enough current at these low impedances.
I connected a class D amplifier (XTZ Edge A2-300 based on an ICEpower 300AS1 module) this amplifier has a comparable power rating of 150Watt @ 8 Ohm's but can generate a lot of current (as indicated by a rating of 300 Watt @ 4 Ohm en 460 Watt @ 2.7 Ohm).
The difference is very evident - with the external amp the doors rattle in their frames with the Denon not.
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21 hours ago, wuzzzer said:
Well, probably because Roy Delgado who is the chief engineer at Klipsch said that the RB-5 was the best voiced bookshelf speaker they ever made.
The question becomes even more pronounced - why not relaunch 'the best voiced bookshelf speaker' in some form again then ?
I must admit I forgot that the RB5 is a 8" speaker versus the 6" RP-160 / RP-600. I actually have bought and used several of the mentioned speakers: a RB5 (resides with my ex-wife now), a RB81 (used by my son) and had a RP-160 until last year. (I can still go and listen to any of them).
In my opinion the RB5 is an exceptionally good speaker with other qualities than the newer RP-160. The latter is more 'polite' sounding and some music types sound (a little bit) better with the former and others with the latter.
But if the OP has speakers with a port on the front side it must be another type than a RB5/RB5II.
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Why are the RB5's assumed to outperform the RP-600's ?
It doesn't seem logical that speakers that are about 15 years older would be better, in that case Klipsch could just bring the older model on the market again.
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Hi Vivek,
Yes, that XTZ amplifier is connected permanently to the pre-out of the Denon AVR4300H as external power amp powering my 2 front speakers.
(it was my intention to build a 7.0.4 Atmos speaker lay-out, this requires an external amp with the AVR4300 as such I had ordered the amp at the same time as the RP8060FA speakers).
I have not tried another amp yet.
The power specification is not the main issue - even 50W/channel can be sufficient - but the amplifier must be able to provide sufficient current when the impedance is low or complex.
As you can see in the graph above (dark green line) a speaker presents different impedances in function of the frequency and some amplifiers have difficulty driving speakers with low impedance dips.
A rule of thumb to asses the ability of an amplifier to drive low impedances is to look at the power spec at 8 and 4 Ohms (and even better if lower impedances are specified).
A stable amplifier wil show double the power from 8 to 4 Ohms for example 100W/ch at 8 Ohms and 200W/ch at 4 Ohms.
In case of the AVR4300H one can find the following spec in the manual: 130 W x 2-channel (8 Ω/ohms) and only 190 W x 2-channel (4 Ω/ohms) in stead of the expected 260 W at 4 Ω/ohms. This indicates that the amplifier does not like lower impedances. As the older comparable speaker model RP-280FA dipped to 3.1 Ω/ohms this presents an even more difficult impedance for the AVR4300 amplifier.
As I wrote earlier: best to borrow and try a few different amplifiers
Alternatively you could consider to buy and try an inexpensive Chinese class D amplifier (<100$) as generally these are quiet good with low impedances.
Jef
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Hello Vivek,
I have a Denon AVR4300H - same model as yours but a little older (1 or 2 years) - and have RP8060FA's connected as fronts.
The RP8060FA is a RP8000 but with an Atmos module build in.
My experience is exactly the same as yours, the speakers sound flat, lifeless and lack bass (you use a subwoofer so you might not notice the lack of bass so hard).
After connecting an external amplifier the speakers came to life. That external amplifier has a smaller (but similar) power specification at 8 Ohms compared to the Denon but can power speakers with impedances down to 2,7 Ohm. (the amplifier is a XTZ Edge A2-300 - class D ICEpower).
I cannot find impedance charts for the new RP8000/8060FA yet but the older model RP280 had impedance dips to 3,1 Ohms.
(see attached graph - source: https://hometheaterreview.com/klipsch-rp-280fa-tower-speaker-reviewed/?page=2)
I suspect that the Denon is not capable to power a RP8000/RP8060 properly because of the impedance dips of the speakers i.e. there is sufficient power for 8 ohms but the amplifier cannot generate enough current when the impedance drops.
Although I like the Denon for all its functionality, the audio part seems to be lacking.
Also, my Denon amplifier runs so hot (on the 8Ohm setting) that the video convertor occasionally stops working. After changing the impedance setting in the Denon from 8 to 4 Ohms the amplifier runs much cooler and without video convertor problems, but it did not change the sound of the audio
I would suggest that you borrow a few amplifiers from friends or willing shops and evaluate the RP8000 with those before changing your speakers. The sound quality difference was immediately obvious in my case.
Jef
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Yes, my mistake I wrote it wrong:
Dynamic Volume - off
Dynamic EQ - On (but preferably not on the 0dB setting which is for Movies)
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Hello,
the Reference Offset setting of 0dB in your Denon is intended for Movies and for music I would suggest to turn the Dynamic EQ off.
I'm a little bit surprised with the 0dB on your FL, FR and SW speakers.
As you can select Reference you must have run the Audyssee measurement, but I think it is very unlikely that the result would be 0dB for all 3 speakers.
And the same for the distance measurement: 2 feet (60cm) cannot be correct.
I suggest that you run the Audyssee measurement again, turn Dynamic EQ off and set the Reference Offset to a music setting e.g. 15, 10, 5 or off)
Note : you can change the volume scale from your present setting to a more meaning full -79 to +18dB presentation.
I hope this helps
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The standard setting on the AVRX4300 is 8 Ohms
The Marantz SR5008 does not have this 'switch', that amplifier is rated for use with speakers with an impedance of 6 – 16 Ω/Ohms not 4 Ohms
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No you have to press 2 buttons on the amplifier body at the same time to enter this mode/menu.
The exact 2 buttons depend on the model:
'<-' and '->' on my Denon AVRX4300 (see also page 40 of the pdf manual).
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Thanks for the replies and links.
Note: with the Denon/Marantz AVR's (at least with the models I looked at) one selects the 4, 6 or 8 Ohm via a setting in the menu not a switch.
Anyone using RP-500SA as heights channel ?
in Home Theater
Posted
Surround