lne937s

People take everything too personally. I am trying to look at the big picture- I have no idea what any of your personal experiences are. I have no problem with the uneducated making a decent living, but twice the median per capita income for unskilled labor- that's excessive. There is little reason now that people can not to go to college- it is a decision. Supporting a family would be one reason, but starting one is also a decision. Grants for people from poor families make it easier for them to go to school than people from middle income families whose parents do not support them. I support education on all levels. Tech school is still education and an investment. In Germany, this is a required option if you do not go to college. One way or the other, our math and science education must improve. We must all invest in ourselves and our economy. Call me a whiner or whatever you want, but someone must speak up for the new class of information-based workers. Some people act like educated, straight, white, 20-30 something, males aren't entitled to an opinion. Look at what all that labor "whining" did. Sticking up for yourself can also be seen as whining as well as the majority of comments here- on either side. Anyway, the stock market looks scary, and the US Dollar (down 15% this year) is now worth less than the Euro. more to come- Larry

I have a few observations, but here's the first. It has occurred to me that the concepts being used by many in this debate are antiquated- the Industrial Age is over. The working class vs. investor class dicotomy is inadequate- what about the educated people who work for a living with their heads? These people have no advocacy groups (no unions, advocates for the poor, or chambers of commerce) and are currently getting the shortest end of the stick. We are in the beginning of a Post-Industrial society- our concepts and arguments need to be redefined. Would you define industrial societies in agrarian terms? Manufacturing is dwindling segment of the economy- information and services are taking over. Many of the past arguments oppose each other but are both wrong. We need to change the way we think about our economy. Best wishes to all- let's try to be respectful to each other. Larry

The individual American farmer is becoming more and more of a minority and a cultural myth. The majority of the food grown is made in corporate farms- look at Tyson chicken plants. On the guns analogy- remember someone had to be smart enough to design and engineer the gun, or else you would be fighting with sticks and rocks. And while your at it, why don't you use cave drawings to communicate and make your own music? There is a value to education- it moves our society forward. We learn from the past and develop the future. Mindless labor jobs merely take advantage of where we are now. I have to say that I think Corporate wages are too high also. But two wrongs don't make a right. Airline pilots should make more than $100,000 if UPS employees are making $60,000. They have hundreds of lives in their hands, actually went to school, , and are essential to an important industry. The wages in this country should go up. However, the value of the employees should also go up. If you are doing something a machine can do better, you should be replaced. Eventually, this will become a reality and where will our economy be then? Even the existing manual jobs will be made infinitely easier by premanufactured components and improved machinery. Unions are Just as corrupt as corporations, although neither one wants to admit it. I am not a communist and I think that if you invest in something you should gain returns. This goes for work as well as finances. If someone invests the time, effort, and money into getting a college degree, they should have a significant return. There should be a contrast to encourage the development of this country. I still believe there is a value in highly skilled labor- like some cabinet builders and machinists. However, bolt screwers or warehouse employees do not deserve to make $60K- asking for more money in the middle of an economic downturn. The whole phenomenon is one facet of a larger issue- the outdated way American industry works. Our wealth of natural resources and overconsumption have made us lazy- we need a swift kick in the pants. Technology is moving ahead whether we like it or not. The money loosing, government supported US auto industry can't last for ever- Ford's cuts might not go far enough. Think of it this way- Japan is currently the #1 producer of steel but it has no iron deposites- all of the raw materials are recycled or imported. On the other hand America has a wealth of iron. Japan ended up ahead because they worked smarter. In America, greedy bosses, union-imposed inefficiency, and outdated thinking brought the industry down. Do you want the rest of America to go the way of US Steel? Maybe we need a Depression to convince everyone to scrap the old system and start over. Maybe people won't realize the error in their ways untill it's too late- our stubborness will may be our downfall. Which would you prefer- a slow, painful decline or a quick blow and then start over? Larry PS- one thing I did learn to do in college is to discuss issues without personal attacks- let's try to keep this an adult conversation. This message has been edited by lne937s on 07-18-2002 at 05:23 PM

I'd make sure to call first- not everyone carries the same models. The Wiz on 5th Ave (just a few blocks north of work) doesn't have RF7 in stock, only the smaller models. I would also try out other speakers in the price range. The way a speaker looks on paper doesn't necessarily translate into sound you will like and everybody is different- Klipsch isn't for everyone. I would check out some of the speakers @ Lyric Hi Fi on Lex around 72nd- I don't think you need an appointment, just ring the bell. Larry PS- to get around NY- don't just look straight ahead- look at what is happening 100 feet ahead of you watching for trouble (people standing around looking at people's pocket areas, people looking to start a fight etc.)- avoid eyecontact. If you look up at the buildings everyone will know you're a tourist. If you see the problems coming you can avoid them and when you pay attention to what is happening ahead of you, you can move through traffic easier. Don't give anyone money who asks for it. Always act like you have to be somewhere (even if you don't) and nobody will mess with you. Disregard traffic signals and walk quickly with long paces. Wear comfortable shoes- you will probably be walking more than you're used to. This message has been edited by lne937s on 07-18-2002 at 01:50 PM

Keith I did work manual labor to pay my way through 7 years of higher ed and to save up for college. I worked on landscaping and hod carrying for a brick layer in addition to stocking groceries, waiting tables, and filming football video in the off season. Comparing myself to a couple of friends who worked UPS nights- I guarantee I worked harder. One actually quit because he was frustrated with how amazingly inefficient they were. From my experience, manual labor is much less stressful. As for why I do what I do- sometimes I really have to think about it. Part of me does it because I invested so much time and energy in getting where I am. The other is the promise of being able to move up to a much higher level than I would otherwise. I also have learned so much that I feel useless if I can't apply it- I know I am making a positive contribution. However, when I see the amount of profits my section produces and what I get paid, and then look at money-loosing American auto manufactures' employees with unrealistic salaries- it makes me sick. UPS will end up raising prices to compensate for these inflated wages- which will raise the market price for all shipping. This will inflate prices of almost everything we buy because amost everything has some shipped components. How easy will it be to keep America on the cutting edge of technology if high school kids see people making more money without studying, building up student loans, or living in relative poverty while going to college? America needs to move forward rather than entrenching itself in industrial-age economics. The only benefit I can see to these high pay rates for unskilled labor is that maybe this will convince manufacturers to replace people with machines- which will drive down prices. Maybe the American manufacturing jobs moving south isn't that bad of a thing. American Auto industry makes me sick. One government bailout after another. Tax breaks for plants so that the uneducated in a community can have good paying jobs. They rarely turn a profit- It is almost like a welfare program. No union training in how to make a car. And American cars are horrible- most people buy them out of blind patriotism. I have to give Bill Ford credit- he is closing money losing plants and redisigning everything by Europeans. However, the once-greatness of American automobiles is over and the decline will continue as long as antiquated thinking persists. Why do some enrtrenched industries keep getting government money while the ones that move us forward are being left out? US Unions and CEOs are both corrupt with overinflated incomes. Either way, they suck money out of this economy. Whether it is a corporate handout of a government one, there really isn't much difference- we all have to pay for it. Larry

Now here is something that does have a lot to do with audio- shipping costs. I was reading a New York Times article that gave the details about the UPS contract. This is nuts. Full time employees in warehouses and drivers- Who currently are making $23.05 an hour are going to get $5 raises to $28.05 an hour. That's almost $60,000 a year! Part-timers will make $14.50 - $26/hr. It almost makes me wish I hadn't invested seven years in higher ed (between under grad and grad). If I would have dropped out of high school, got a full time job with UPS at this rate, and lived at the same standard of living, I would have made a net pre-tax gain of HALF A MILLION DOLLARS (combided salary + school costs- not including dividends that would offset the taxes, depending on how it was invested). I am convinced that all of us college educated people who invested in ourselves and make less than the new UPS wage are worth more. And from the stories I've heard from people who have worked at UPS both here and in Missouri- there is no way in heck they deserve it. The union contracts have allowed the employees to be very lazy and unproductive. At some jobs people move once or twice an hour, and multitasking (the core of any corporate job) is not allowed under the contracts because doing more than one job at the same time might take away someone elses job. You should hear some of the stories about the MO night shift playing soccer with packages- and you wonder why your shipment gets damaged? This is nuts. Unions have their place, but there is no way that these employees deserve this kind of money- especially in this economy. A living wage- yes. An individual wage almost twice the median per capita for fairly unskilled labor- heck no! This affects all of us- we will end up paying the bill. Even if you don't ship it yourself, the price of products that are shipped or have shipped components will go up. This pertains to audio especially. I know you guys hate these non-audio threads, but this is important. Larry This message has been edited by lne937s on 07-17-2002 at 09:51 AM

I have come to the conclusion that the reason that the people are objecting to the off topic threads is that they cannot handle them. People say that they tear people apart, but the most beligerant posts of personal insults I've seen are from the "this post doesn't belong here" people, not the people discussing the issue. I believe that they have personally avoided these topics because they are incapable of having an adult, intelligent, calm conversation about them. On some posts, there are almost as many "I don't respond to these topics" posts as relevant ones. If you don't want to see it, don't look. Obviously, many people are interested, or else these topics wouldn't have so many responses. In a time when the world is calm, these posts would probably not be here- look at it as a reflection of the will of the people. Larry This message has been edited by lne937s on 07-16-2002 at 05:50 PM

This is my last post on this subject- I am glad to see that many of you have actually thought about the subject but dismayed at the closed mondedness of others. Crash your young-old comment originated with the Shaw of Iran and it was originally communist and fascist- much more extreeme. Also- despite his use of the word God, Einstien was not a religious man and also was a Socialist. I was singing the "God Bless America" at a Brooklyn Cyclones game and had a moment of clarity. I like the afore mentioned song because it asks god to bless this country. I prefer this to the pledge because the pledge says that we are already "Under God" rather than asking for his guidance. I personally do not presume to know God'd will. Also, I was singing it out of my own free will as a private individual. Despite the ill conceived title of this post- nobody is making it illegal for you to say anything. You could say "under Scooby Doo" if you wanted to- that is also part of the first amendment. All that it does is remove a reference to Judeo-Christian religion from a prominant, official government statement that is repeated by millions through the use of government-sponsored channels of communication. I cast my vote for removing it. best wishes to all, Larry

Boa My original post did not go through- which is probably a good thing. First of all, the money moving concept is more precisely a measure of GDP (Gross Domestic Product) - the #1 way we measure the economy. Increase in GDP in real terms is economic growth. Money moving from buyer to seller, investor to investment, government to worker, etc., is considered income, one way to measue GDP. There are also other ways to measure economic success pertaining to how it impacts the population, but they are not as favorable to America as GDP. The money in your pocket has probably passed through millions of peoples hands before it reaches you, in effect rather than physical form. This money does not have to reach everyone to generate growth. Remember the George H. W. Bush solution to the '90's recession- "buy something". Keeping money moving from buyer to seller, investor to business, etc. is what our economy is defined by. I also want to say that I have no agenda, other than to make people think. Some of the references made are obscure or theoretical. Many of the references I have made here are contradictory- if you stop to notice. I am really trying to entice some intelligent responses out of people of different areas, classes, education, and political beliefs. I realize that many people tend to hate what they don't know or understand- I am not trying to make people hate me. one word of advise: Think before you say "BS," or that is what your opinion will be. Larry This message has been edited by lne937s on 07-15-2002 at 07:49 PM

Brett, The conservative dogma comment was directed at everyone, not just you. As far as minimum wage goes- if you carefully read my post, you'll see what I'm talking about. I was giving an argument for raising the minimum wage as an incentive for employers to move their mindless labor to overseas sweatshops- "GLOBAL EMPIRIALISM", an ultra-conservative notion that has merits and demerits. This LOWERS prices- look at how expensive TV's were in real dollars (controlling for inflation) when they were still made in America. It also provides the opportunity to virtually eliminate the need for uneducated, empoverished labor in this country by moving these jobs overseas. If properly planned with adequate education- this will lead the majority of people in this country to higher-status, intelligence requiring jobs. This is similar to the Economies of the Roman, Spanish, and English empires, but done through economic rather than military means. There is one thing to remember- economic growth is nothing more than money moving. Here is a hypothetical example of the relevance of economic growth- if there was a tax exemption for autograph sales, we gathered the 100 richest people in a room, and had them sell their autographs to each other for their net worth all day with the undersatnding that they would all end with the same amount as they started- we could easily double our GDP in a few days. However, the impact of this to the average American is non-existant. Taxes and government regulations ensure that money moves through areas it may not if the markets are left alone. This doesn't mean we dump it into a black whole, never to return- poor people and the government programs spend that money. From my experience, most poor people spend their money faster than they can make it. This money being spent creates jobs just like the money being spent by corporations. If the money being redistributed is excessive this can cause inflation. Likewise, if corporate budgets are inflated you also get inflation. In addition, the long-term effects of inadequate government programs (uneducated population, social unrest, environmental destruction, etc.) can have much greater effects on the economy. It is all one big balancing act. Brett- I have a feeling that your boss is promoting his own self interest, rather than the best interest of this country. The same could be said for the people seeking out government programs. One factor I find interesting is the ratio of education to money made. Typically people who are extreemely educated but poorly paid tend to be liberal (college professors). However, the uneducated that make a lot of money are almost always conservative (good old boy businessmen). The people in the middle (high pay-high education and low pay-low education) are less predictable. I remember in grad school some research on the ratio of education to pay as an indicator, but I can't rember where- does anybody out there remember the author? There is one thing to keep in mind- everything is reliant on perception. There are no stead fast rules, no matter how much we wish there were. Virtually every aspect of our economy is based on assigned rather than actual value. Many of the products we buy have value based on aesthetic appeal rather than function. This appeal can changes with the perception of the people. Even money has little value other than that which we assign to it. In the end, if you get enough people to unquestioningly believe in a system, you can make it work. There are many different paths to the same conclusion- some better than others. Fascism (by definition, government derived from corporate structure- see Principale di Fascista Larry

I agree that the president does not have that much direct effect over the economy. However- he is very important to economic success. No matter how much we try, people do not respond like equations to economic factors. Economics is widely refered to as the "dismal science" for a reason. Especailly in the current economy- perception is key. You could say that we live in a Post-Industrial, Post Modern economy. Why else would Amazon post a 60,000% increase in stock prices in the 90's without ever turning a profit. Why do people think Bo$e is worth the money they pay for it. Why do people pay $60 for designer cologne when the bottle often costs more than the ingredients and the designer has nothing to do with it other than liscensing out his/her name. In politics, it has become easier to convince the majority that there is no problem than to fix it (Eg.- the "Health Care Crisis", At one point polls showed that 84% supported some form of national health care- Bob Dole even proposed a plan. A year and $2 billion+ of medical industry PR and Advertising later, 78% opposed. $2billlion+ is a lot of money, but far less costly than fixing the perceived problem!) With the value of products and services leaving their raw materials far behind, perception is key. Economic influences are taking effect exponentially faster than before. The ability of the President to inspire confidence and instantly adapt policy to economic changes is absolutely key. We need new thinking for these new times- industrial or agrarian-based models won't work. I don't think Bush is the man for this time. Social Security is troubling, but seniors have too much political power. And all of you should see how much we pay in taxes here and how far our money goes- then you'd stop whining. And the Michigan "coney island" idea is dismal. Nathan's should raise an army and wipe them off the face of the earth. The Coney Island Cyclones (I love minor league baseball) could probably do it armed with baseball bats. And Forrest- 2004 is too far off to call. I have called the margin of victory for the past 3 presidential elections within 1/10th of a percent 2 years out (for '92 I guessed the anominous Dem- I wasn't sure who was running)- but I am boggled now. Things are in too much flux. If Bush can successfully drag out the "war on terrorism" long enough, he will come out ahead. However, his popularity peaked too high too fast on the basis of events that had nothing to do with him. He has made some major policy errors, is in a difficult environment, and has some skeletons in his closet. He is not an idiot, but he is also not the smartest man for the job. Remember Forrest- forget the other 1459days- election day is the only day that counts, and your opinion is definitely not representitive of the majority of the country more to think about best wishes to all. Larry

Brett, I think if you asked Ted Turner or Bill Gates they might disagree with you. Anyway, Coney Island (or anywhere else in NYC) pays significantly more than $5- it's too expensive to live here and you have to pay more to get reliable labor. I am personally anti-union if they do not offer some type of apprenticship training. If you look at taxes 50 years ago as a percentage of the GDP, you will notice that they were actually higher then than they are today. However, income tax was lower- the taxes from corporations and tarrifs made up the difference. In general it is the average Joe or the small business that gets it- big business usually has some way out. Look at how much money in taxes defense contractors like GE pay. Also, do you think that Amway (pyramid scheme) would still be legal if it wasn't the #1 contributer to the Republican Party in '96? Overall, I have to say that the majority of our elected officials are trying to do a good job. However, there are bad apples on both sides. Despite historically voting Democratic, I can't bring myself to do so here for most city offices- the party structure is too stratified and unrealistic to be effective. However, in MO, the Democrats are more realistic, while the competing, unrealistic bible belters and the economic conservatives make the Republicans ineffective. Democrats actively try to lower taxes in MO, while not going into debt or gutting necessary programs. Both parties have their special interests. Moderation is necessary for either to be successful. To demonize one or the other is naive. The real issues that effect this country are those that the average person never hears about and probably wouldn't understand if they did. Money makes politics go around. Average Americans don't have enough to give, and even labor unions pale in comparison to corporate contributions. Big business has purchased many of the policies you complain about by installing the politicians they want, which is not always a bad thing. This goes beyond our borders- look at what fueled Boris Yeltzin's reelection campaign. As something to think about- here is one argument for raising minimum wage- Economic Emperialism. By raising wages for unskilled workers, you make overseas sweatshops more appealing to businesses. While this causes short term economic detriments, there are long term benefits. Historically, there are two ways to create a high standard of living for a society: regulate the hell out of it (like Sweden, which most Americans are not willing to do) or create an empire, exploiting other nations. By keeping the empoverished, uneducated workforce overseas, businesses make profit, consumers have lower prices, and the social problems of an impoverished population are left to other countries. Some sort of welfare is essential to pacify an empoverished population necessary to keep wages down in a closed system. If it wasn't there, there would be increased crimes of desparation and resentment as well as social upheaval. However, under Economic Empirialsm, poor people are only needed to serve those with money ("service economy?")- reducing the need for welfare. The process of Global Economic Empirialism is going on currently. Look around your house- how many things have you bought that are actually made here (even Klipsch RF3 woofers are made in Mexico). In the 90's we maintained economic growth with less than "minimum unemployment" (5%). It is also necessary to move production overseas- "Trickle-Down" policies we have adopted don't work well in a closed system. However, we need to invest in education to stay on top. There has to be some sort of justification for our global position. If we don't, all the countries that we use for cheap labor will overtake us (remember when Japan was a relatively powerless country that made cheap merchandise?). Our math and science ed is far behind many competing countries. With raw materials (which we have an overabundance of) becoming a smaller and smaller portion of the cost of an item, the emphasis has to be placed on design an development. Also, population control becomes necessary- the increased investment in education combined with the reduced need for cheap labor makes it so. Maybe that is an even bigger issue. The educational and career achievements of many are hindered by child birth. The earning power of someone who finishes college is much higher than that of someone who drops out of high school to raise a kid. While having children is a good thing if planned and prepared for- it can be catastrophic otherwise. The success rates of children born to single, teenage mothers is dismal. Active parenting is essential to raising kids and very difficult for single parents- and I have to give a hand to all of the single parents who are slaving away to give their kids the best life possible. We can preach responsibility all we want, but it really won't make much difference- and we all have to pay the consequences. If you don't believe me- look at the teen pregnancy rates of Mt. Vernon, MO (a Bible belt town that has previously had the one of highest rates in the nation). Adoption is an option, but realistically only for healthy white infants- the rest are out of luck. I personally think that everyone on welfare should be required to be on birth control- with no more money for more kids. Also, making birth control free would be a help. This is opening a whole other can of worms- so disragard this paragraph. So here are some ideas for all of you out there to wrap your heads around. I hope you all actually try to think rather than spouting off some partisan dogma. Please don't take anything too seriously- all you pissed off Conservatives need to lighten up. I also want to hear from the middle of the country- I want to know what's going on out there. Larry This message has been edited by lne937s on 07-13-2002 at 01:30 AM

From my impression of Klipsch and PWK in particular I have one observation: Klipsch are fun speakers- not serious egg-head speakers. The whole "BS" comments of PWK make me believe that he would think a lot of us are taking ourselves to seriously. I never met the man, so I can't be for sure. What has kept me on this forum consistantly, even though I also own other speakers, is that fun attitude. The community of this bulletin board is tremendous. Yes, sometimes we take ourselves too seriously, but, all in all, people here are pretty mature, educated, and light hearted. Discussing non-audio issues here is generally better than in most of the other boards dedicated to such issues thet are filled with complete morons. I ask questions here because I want to hear the opinions of people from broad backgrounds who I am familiar with from other posts. There is a lot going on in the world that is on my mind. Anyway, if you don't want to see a non-audio post, don't open it. Larry

Ray, I know that it is usually the guy in the middle that gets the shaft. However, there are a number of small business programs and loans that could help you out. I know of people who lived fairly well while setting up failing businesses. I'll ask around and try to find you some good resources. Remember that so called "corporate welfare" programs if you include tax breaks, bailouts, and subsides easily outspend social welfare (although you can make the numbers look the other way easily- either way they are both a lot of money). You can thank the Republicans for that (not truly conservatives). However, usually only people with good lawyers and accountants can reap the rewards. Look into it- and maybe you can get some of that cash for yourself. If everyone else is doing it... Larry

As a former resident of KC, I felt amazingly overwhelmed when I came here. It took some major adjusting, but your whole perception of the world changes. So many people make packed closely together bring so many issues that you hear about on tv into focus and expose you to almost everything, whether you want it to or not. And by the way- how about those Cheifs? #1 rusher, #1 tight end, new offense (no more Martyball) I think they are actually going to do something this year! Larry

Who to fix it? Rudy could probably do it. Mel Carnahan or Harry S Truman - if either was still alive. Lieberman would probably do a much better job than either Gore or Bush. The sword is two sided. On one side, you need someone with impeccable business ethics and who will actively seek out the culprits, regardless of political party (I still think the concentration on Gates was based on the fact that the richest man in the world was not a Republican- as we can see now, there were much worse cases out there). On the other, you need someone who is persuasive- to keep up investor confidence up (don't cut your foot off to fix a hangnail). That way, real companies like HP or Ray's won't go down the drain. I see a repeat of the S&L bailout comming. Also, I am trying to keep this on target, leaving out any other political issues. However, I find the differences amazing between "Conservatives" and denotative conservatives- especially on social issues. One way or the other- let's hope for the best Larry

Rowoo- I meant geographically- thanks for catching it, I'll fix it now. Larry

Since money is perhaps the #1 limiting factor for most of our audio equiptment, I think this is germaine. I am really getting worried. The stock market is falling to pieces, companies are "restructuring," and our recovery seems to have been very short lived. And being in marketing/advertising, the effects of the economy become glaring. I realize from economic data that this stuff hits us first- hard and fast. However, it will hit the rest of you soon, if it hasn't already. Just wait untill all those Ford plants close and the restructuring plans go into full effect. I would really like to know how the rest of the country is being effected. Bush lecturing about corporate ethics is like Clinton becoming a marriage councellor. He, as well as much of his cabinet and his brother Neil, have made their fortunes off corporate welfare, insider trading, and shady practices. The campaign contributions of the corporations we are bailing out now probably made the difference in the presidential election. To make Arthur-Anderson the Patsy for all this is shallow. I know that this board is overrun by died-in-the-wool conservatives, but I really think we have the wrong man for the job- at least right now. I just don't think he can inspire confidence in the people in this area or be hard-nosed about stopping practices he has personnally benefitted from. Anyway, I don't think economic de-regulation will go through any time soon. I want to hear your thoughts, especially from those of you in the middle (geographically as well as politically). Larry This message has been edited by lne937s on 07-11-2002 at 05:03 PM

Campers have been here for a few years too, but they were in BIG in Europe first and still are. I didn't mean that to be trendy, they are more of a staple- the trendiest moved on a long time ago. However, they are really comfortable and flexible, so I think they will stick around for a while. None of my comments were meant to be bragging, although they obviously came off that way. I guess what is "normal" here is pretentious almost everywhere else. Myopia? Anyway, I was thinking- I really am in an alternate universe. My room costs as much as renting an entire house in MO. I don't drive to work anymore- I take the subway. There was a movie being shot on the street on the way to work. I was in the bank today and there was this guy arguing with the teller about the fact that they won't let him deposite more than a $1,000,000 in his regular checking account. I never saw that in MO. I am sitting here wearing clothes that aren't even offered in MO. Our office had Sushi delivered for lunch- which I only had twice in MO. I am going around the block to Britney Spears' new restaurant (which I hear is horrible and really tacky) for a birthday party. I really guess that the 5% of the US that live here (and maybe the other 5-7% that commute in) are really in a totally different world than most of the rest of you- comparisons really aren't fair. I haven't seen a Walmart in about a year or left NYC in the past 6 months, so maybe I need to get out more? Larry

Mobile- I mean the hearing loss statement with the best of intentions. In addition to loud audio, there are also many other causes of hearing loss- some of them will get worse if not treated. Hearing aids aren't the only treatments. A smooth tube amp is much less of a probable culprit than a 200w/ch solid state going to 98db sensitive speakers 10ft from the listening area, but getting your hearing checked can't hurt anyway. With all the money we spend on producing sound, I think it's reasonable to spend a little on the receptors. Actually, my platform bed is made out of 2X4's. All my AV gear is on various shelves of a laminated particle board computer desk (no computer- I got it for free) lengthwise to the room, directly behind the listening area with the CRT projector mounted on top (even more tacky). The seperate shelves let everything cool well, and having it directly behind me let's me reach behind to turn the dials on my '70's amp and tuner- made before remote control. Also, being behind me helps open up airspace for the front soundstage and makes room for the projector's image up front. the speaker cable is only about 12ft long( small apartment- too narrow to mount the projector shooting across it), so the sound really doesn't suffer from increased cable resistance that much. The original setup on this post looks like it would sound great, I really have no cheap suggestions other than maybe room treatments. Larry This message has been edited by lne937s on 07-11-2002 at 11:11 AM

This is a serious post and a recommendation for everyone here- Get your hearing checked. The problem you may be getting is hearing loss. Klipsch speakers can easily play loud enough to cause permenant hearing loss- especially at close range for prolonged periods. I had my hearing checked in my early 20's as part of an in-depth physical and had minor loss in my left ear. I IMMEDIATELY turned down my music. This hearing loss may have been temporary (my hearing actually seems better now), but it scared the hell out of me. I know this post sucks to hear, but after decades of abuse, your hearing might be suffering. It is better to get it checked than to neglect it- it's cheap and there are treatments for some cases. You can enjoy your music for much longer and actually understand conversations as a bonus. Best wishes to all Larry This message has been edited by lne937s on 07-10-2002 at 06:56 PM

Steven- I'm wearing a shirt similar to that right now Fini- that is the funniest post I've seen on this forum, I was laughing out loud. How's Cali? Larry

New Balance are huge here too, but people change shoes @ work. I like being able to wear one pair of shoes all day long. I am also lazy, so I buy a lot of flexible clothes and always dress business casual, so I don't have to think about what to wear. The whole fashion thing kind of rubs off on you, whether you want it to or not. Women pay attention to it, and, being single, I try to make a good impression on them. For all the "envious" Bostonians, at least your basketball and football teams are better. So is your seafood. I think being in shape under your clothes is more important for everyone anyway, Larry

Doug I am beocming aware of the myopia- I can't relate to many of the things I used to (although I do miss cheap, good beef). American cars, driving 1 block to go to the convienience store, wearing polo's, sub-$1k/mo apartments, no subways, no caribean food, convenient parking, low taxes, cheap prices, etc. are seeming more and more foriegn. I really never considered myself a clothes freak and definitely am not one in this alternate universe. But I have an observation: Last time I went south, I didn't see hardly any loose weave linen- which has been pretty standard here. I recommend this to everyone that has a job that doesn't involve getting dirty. Yes it wrinkles, but it's the coolest (temerature) stuff out there and really comfortable. I didn't like logo t-shirts in MO either- especially Tommy Hillfiger. But don't worry, I won't rat any of you out to the fashion police Larry This message has been edited by lne937s on 07-10-2002 at 02:48 PM

Sknopa Just to be clear- we are talking about Campers- the shoes right? They are becomming standard here- they go with almost all business casual and weekend clothes but are easy on the feet. Who would have thought bowling shoes with sneaker soles would catch on? It was a little hasty to lump all Midwest/south together- must be NY tunnel vision setting in. There is a huge difference between Virginia near DC, Miami, or Atlanta and rural Arkansas or Tennessee. Likewise, Chicago is fairly progressive. I suppose not all people outside this area talk, walk, and pick up trends slowly. Larry