lne937s

this has gone too far... the dialog has degraded so I am closing the thread if checking that box works Best wishes to all Larry This message has been edited by lne937s on 08-14-2002 at 10:40 AM

On the opposite side of the whole Ozone thing- Ionic air cleaners or ozone generators in industrial air quality systems do the same thing. The Ozone kills bacteria and helps neutralize odors. However, it can also be harmful to people in high quantities. It's like the clorine in tap water- clorine makes drinking water safe, but you don't want to drink bleach directly. Larry

the first place i'd try is Ebay.

I've stayed away for a while, but a few pages, but I have a few points to make. Although Clinton passed the largest tax increase, who proposed the largest tax increase of all time? It was Reagan. It didn't pass through the Democratic legislature. However, I think we may need to increase taxes if our economy recovers- like Ronnie's proposal at the time. I walk by the debt counter every day- $60K+ per person. What ever happened to "fiscal responsibility"? if we don't start widdling down that debt while the boomers are still working, the workforce numbers combined with the strain of the largest elderly population ever will make it impossible for another 20 years. I do think we need some kind of population policy. It is a tremendous factor in economic development. Countries that have the highest standards of living (western Europe) tend to have lower birth rates than those with low standards of living (3rd world) I also implore all of you to look beyond Webster's dictionary and connotative definitions for an understanding of the terms you use. Fascism, for example, is, in theory, government structure derived from industrial corporate structure. Yes, it has very few people in power at the top, a strict chain of command, heirarchy, division of labor, etc.- just like corporations. It was designed to be the most efficient form of government- it made the trains run on time. Neo-fascism, from one perspective, would use more of the "new" corporate structure tactics. Puts the "run government like a business" statements in a new light. Also, according to research, compensation is not directly related to job satisfaction or motivation. "Compensation fairness" and the ability to provide for yourself are more analogous. Feelings of accomplishment, identifying with the company, emotional involvment, feelings of efficacy, etc. are more effective in creating employee satisfaction and motivation. (for more look at Barker, Thompkins, Cheney or any good Org Com or I/O Psychology Journal) Why else would many young union factory workers still complain about their jobs even when they significantly make more than many of their white-collar peers. Compensation does have an effect on job and career choice, the motivation to educate yourself, and the economy as a whole. Larry

OK- you guys are really making me miss having a car. After the fourth time my Mustang convertible was broken into in six months and hundreds of dollars in parking tickets, I got rid of it. Now I take the subway everywhere. The only car I've ever owned from the 60's is actually a truck- a '66 3/4 ton International with a chrysler small block. Big, loud, and slow. We rebuilt it from the frame up- everything was redone and repainted- although not original. The exterior was painted Coke Red (left over paint from the delivery trucks) and you could see it coming a mile away. However, if I were to buy a truck now, it would probably be a '74 Ford with dents on every mis-matched panel and railroad ties for bumpers- that way I wouldn't have to worry about messing it up, scratching the bed, or having it stolen and everybody would get out of my way when I merged into traffic. I have fallen in love with small cars. I really like big Heally's- 100-4 would be a dream. I would also like a BMW 2002. I saw some pretty cool kits based on Datsun Z cars for 250 Ferrari's. I also was thinking about building a motorcycle based roadster- Legends style. All this is dreaming now- I need to rent a garage in the country and afford a spare $250/mo for insurance (it is ridiculous here). Maybe I should move first. Larry

Thanks I was thinking there really wasn't a difference, but I wanted to be sure. I have been looking @ Focal, MB Quart, and Peerless, but my top prospect now is Illusion Audio- I found them at www.solen.ca Look at these woofers- I am thinking about using the 12 http://www.illusionaudio.com/illusion/Technologyx.html They look different, play low, have lightweight cones, and have high sensitivity. Vance Dickanson, who makes sub designs for Parts Express, has some positive comments quoted on the Illusion websight. I know AR used some of the smaller models from Illusion in their high end wall mounted speakers. Illusion also makes horns for car audio. The drivers are expensive, but the cost savings of DIY should offset this, not to mention conversation piece value. I am going to plug the parameters into my box design program this weekend. Larry

I was wondering about something (this may be a stupid question)- Is there a good reason I cannot use a car audio subwoofer to build a home subwoofer?- Does the fact that I have a small room make a difference? I was looking at the frequency resopnse of Illusion Audio's 12" inverted motor carbon fiber subwoofer. These are supposedly one of the highest quality sounding car subwoofers and they play into the teens. They have high efficiency, have lightweight cones, and look different than just about anything. I have heard a couple answers before, but none really answer the question. Thanks, Larry This message has been edited by lne937s on 08-08-2002 at 09:18 PM

Everyone is trying to categorize the enemy of our economy (Democrats vs. Republicans, Liberals vs. Conservatives, etc) here's a new classification- blame the Boomers. (The baby boom- people born between the end os WWII and the start of Vietnam). Look at that graph of income increases (I assume household, not per cap)- the sharp rises in the top bracket correlate with the boomers taking control. The boomers are the largest generation in this country- and are at peak earning potential now. What happens when they retire? With them at peak earning potential, how can we have a recession? The fact that we are having a recession isn't as scarey as the timing of it. The Boomers are in charge of both parties. They control virtually every corporation. When one who has a power position leaves or gets fired- another is waiting to take his place. The natural movement of power from old to young is taking a vacation because there are still enough older people to hold the positions. This prevents the progress of the Gen X (roughly defined as people born during Vietnam, the generation after that really doesn't have a name yet) to power positions as people retire. Generation X is the first generation in American history to make less money than their parents when taking into account for inflation. Their population numbers are very small compared to the boomers. These two factors combined will make it very difficult to fund the mass retreat of the Boomers into retirement. Much of this is the inevitable consequence of population fluctuations. However, these fluctuations should be resulting in great numbers at present. We should be paying off the debt now and investing in the future. We need to be promoting an economy that works smarter- we don't have enough strong backs to fuel an economy on manual labor. We need to improve math and science scores so that our ingenuity can move us forward. On the whole trade issue- think of it this way. A bottle of designer cologne- $60. Cost of production- $6 max, most of which is packaging. The rest of the money goes to fund design, marketing, advertising, sales, that attractive girl who sprays it on you at the store, etc. More money is pumped into our economy through the labor of foriegners than is given to those foriegners. Think of it as exploiting foriegners- giving us more than we put in. Much the same can be said for audio equiptment. Do not confuse American brands or "assembled in America" with 100% American. If you don't believe me, take your speakers apart (some reference Klipsch woofers are made in Mexico) or disassemble your car. Fast forward 15 years. We won't have the labor force to pay for all the retired boomers if we rely on domestic labor, or supply their consumption habits. Gen Xers will be taking over, but since Boomers have wasted all the fat years and kept all the management positions to themselves for all those years, things will be in disarray. We will have to rely on our brains to move us ahead. More value must be placed on engineering, development, refinement, information, creativity, rather than on the bulk of raw materials used or the labor hours involved. The days of SUV's will end. Automation and foriegn labor will be essential to production. If we don't start changing now, we will be in a world of hurt. Labor unions (not necessarily trade unions) are detrimental to this process because they reduce the will of people to enter the new "information" sector, or whatever you want to call it. While they are not completely counterproductive, they do slow changes in how we manage our labor force. The US is already behind in these changes and we need to speed things up. Also, why invest tens of thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours of work in school when only to graduate and end up making half of what your high school drop-out buddy is making. On top of that, they have been making this money for the past 4 or 5 years (easily leading to a half million dollar deficit for the college educated). This puts them @$60K a year in the next to the top bracket, and if it is a two union wage household- at the bottom of the top bracket. I have no problem with everyone making a good living and people who work hard, especially, but I think these wages are quite a bit above market value ($40k is more reasonable-although I'm sure Forrest would like less). When I left grad school I didn't have a job waiting for me- I had to make a fake resume that claimed that I had LESS education so that I could get a job waiting tables to pay the bills- it's like some kind of sick joke. Many labor jobs will not take you if you have a degree- you're overeducated (I've tried). Have the uneducated have taken over? They are going to shoot us in the foot when the boomers retire and we need to find new ways to generate income. Corporations are also being counterproductive. So many are looking to generate short term profits, they are unwilling to invest in the long term, like R&D. Many execs are too stubborn to admit they took the wrong direction. The "if it aint broke don't fix it" approach is slowing our development and growth. Corporate politics is getting almost as bad as national, special interests are taking over policy decisions. Ceo's are tying themselves to closely to personal money making rather than promoting the business. I encourage all of you to look at the link I posted on the page from BMW HR- the unions are actually working with the corporation to develop the most mutually beneficial relationship. I think that the Euro is going to continue to gain on the US dollar based on some policy decisions, the integration of eastern Europe, and some future population changes. Some more to think about, Larry

I would like to keep it below 1K. I would prefer to buy used if I buy. I was thinking about building an isobaric based on some things I read, but wanted everyone's opinion on them. I realize that they reduce volume somewhat, but that is not a problem since I have a small room. I also heard that they play lower and reduce distortion- so I am intrigued. I would need a very simple kit since I don't have many tools or much room to build it. I plan on using a 50Hz crossover point. What about MB quart- I know they have a reputation for quality sound in car audio, but how is their home stuff? Thanks Larry This message has been edited by lne937s on 08-01-2002 at 08:23 PM

I was looking at some monitor audio subs- any recommendations? What is the verdict on push/pull designs? I am looking for something fast, low, tight and musical, but with my small room, I don't need loud. Thanks in advance- Larry

After previously using masonite with a matte finish, I currently show my crt on a flat white wall. Larry

to be fair- Inflated corporate executive salaries do the same thing. Anyone who has negotiated a position where his/her salary is not respondant to free market competition is guilty of the same- whether that be through monopoly, patronage, unions, nepotism, etc.

My opinion on unions is not just based on the fact that they inflate wages, but that they also reduce productivity. Higher wages are justifiable with higher productivity. For an example of a profitable company with higher wages, look here: http://www.bmwgroup.com/e/index_home.shtml?s10&/e/sniffer.html& Historical links between unions and communists are not opinion but documented fact. Currently, unions are becoming more and more conservative as their negotiations move them into higher tax brackets. Let's curb the personal attacks- we aren't in elementary school anymore. Larry

I have never owned any, but the recent stats seem to sound much better than the ones I heard a decade ago. I also have to say that I have become a true believer in ribbon drivers having listened to them in a broad range of applications up to $80K. They are really fast and detailed. Some people are even experimenting with them in horn loaded designs. I also have to say that I like my maggies. The actually do need to be broken in to get the membrane to stretch, and should be lived with for a while to catch all the details these speakers bring. However, room placement makes a tremendous difference- just as much as placing a woofer in a different cabinet- a fraction of an inch is noticable. In my small room, I have never felt the need to turn up the volume past half way. I can now hear details I never heard before, even with my RF3's, I understand all the voices being mumbled in the background of Dark Side of the Moon, and dubbed-in voices in movies are now distractingly obvious. However, if you have a huge room, want to play your music loud, want to use small wattage tube amps, have low quality source material, want to have house parties, have kids or animals, have to coordinate positioning with WAF, etc.- these speakers are not for you. Larry

This single has been selling out in stores around here for the past few months. Elvis vs. JXL http://www.click2music.com/contests/elvis/ I think this mix works- what do you guys think? Will everything be remixed? Does this corrupt the original or bring the music to a whole new generation? Larry

I liked all 3. Kind of twisted, but still great movies. Larry

I have to say that I think that Training Day is by far not the best Denzel Washington movie. I do think he deserves to get an Oscar, but not for that movie. I always wanted to see John Q, but it was in theaters for such a short time- Larry

On the helmut issue- people without a helmut are more likely to die. People with a helmut are likely to have neck injuries- leaving them paralyzed on disability for the rest of their lives. The difference in cost is insignificant when you break it down. Look at F.O.R.R. for more information. The whole justification is a veiled attempt for the "protect people from themselves" proponents. The same could be said about airbags, 5mph bumpers, etc. Some people I'm sure would rather not lug around the extra weight- making their cars more fuel efficient and responsive (F=MA). on a lighter note, a comment on the past debate: http://www.uclick.com/client/nyt/tt/2002/07/28/index.html We need more cartoons here. Larry

Try buying direct from SOLEN. Their litz wire inductors are excellent and capacitors are great for the price. I think it is www.solen.ca

On the freedom issue Remember, there are two types of freedom- freedom to and freedom from. Virtually everything can be justified using one or the other. "Freedom" to own slaves and "freedom" from slavery. "freedom" to run your business the way you want and "freedom" from corporate tyranny. "Freedom" to say whatever you want and "freedom" from broadcast offensive messages. Freedom of religion and freedom from religion. No matter what we do, it can be seen as freedom. I personally think the role of government is to protect us from others infringing on our rights and to promote the common good. Otherwise- I think the government should stay away from regulating our personal choices that don't infringe on the rights of others. A helmutless motorcycle rider won't make as much of a dent in my car; cigarette smokers won't burn up as much social security, won't need medicaid and medicare to pay for their bills as long, and pay $5+ a pack in taxes that I won't have to. If you aren't spending my money or infringing on my rights- go for it.

More to think about- Mdeneen- I don't think you are a communist, however- many of your statements use neo-marxist arguments- whether you realize it or not(you can also be communist but not Marxist). Not all neo-marxists are communists- it's a type of analysis based on the foundation of "historical materialism." In addition, many of the postions of Marx have been taken up by American government- on both sides of the isle. (I really think people should actually read Marx, especially Capital, before they make comments on him). Much of the development of unions in this country has a Marxist or communist origin (sometimes with a Christian justification), in addition to many of the leaders of women's sufferage (look at the politics of Susan B. Anthony- we put a commie on our currency). To everyone else- there are no "laws" of economics. Economics is not called the "dismal science" for nothing. Many Classical Economics principals are rooted in agrarian societies and virtually irrelevant to today. Keynes modified this to adapt to modern- industrial society. However, many of his rules are loosing ground. We are quickly leaving the industrial age behind, and we need new thinking. The Great Depression can be seen as a last stand of agrarian society- creating the need for great adjustments to provide for an industiral society that promoted the needs of the people. We need to make adjustments again, but going back to '20's policies is NOT the answer. Remember when England was an economic powerhouse- they failed to adjust and have suffered from a slow painful decline. If we fail to anticipate the future, we will suffer the same. I also think that many "Conservatives" should read the writings of Fascist leaders in Italy as well as Nazi writings- your oppinions might scare you. The Nazi Propaganda Archive at Calvin College is a great resourse. You may never look at Christian government and running the government like a business in the same way again. Like I have said before- we are entering a new era. Necessities are making up a smaller and smaller percentage of our total expenditures. The family is becoming an economic burdon. Information is gaining value over production. The image of a product often outweighs the substance of it (look at BOSE). These trends will only grow. We need new thinking- Ayn Rand, Conservatives, Liberals, etc. will not help. All of our concepts of economy are based on constructs- even money has no value other than that which we assign to it. Our constructs must change- and this recession is a great time to do it. I want to hear some new ideas- not just the same old crap. I read Nietzsche from time to time and really think he has some great ideas, along with some not so great (reading Nietzsche is very difficult if you do not take your time- learning when he is being sarchastic, the meaning of his intentionally confusing analogies, etc. is very easy for the casual reader to misinterpret- especially in translation. {Nietzsche actually criticizes nationalism and antisemitism} However, I find the insights and concepts in his writing intellectually stimulating). I also read Derrida for interpretive insights and Peter Singer to question my sense of ethics. Anyway- I want to hear new ideas. Larry PS- I don't think the press is necessarily Liberal. In NY- the mainstream papers are definitely pro-business. However, all this is relative- Republicans are pro-choice here. In NY many of the problems are brought into focus- homelessness is in your face, the wealthy are amazingly so, taxes are extreemly high, economic changes hit us hard, etc.- so we have a little different perspective than those who are isolated from it. I personally like to read the NY Times or Wall Street Journal. It amazes me how much better papers are here than in MO. An interesting article in the Times today is on parentless children- 16% of inner city black children growing up without either parent- check it out. Also, criticizing the press for being out to get you is a self fulfilling prophecy- they are out to exploit whatever story they can find and criticizing them just gives them an excuse. Look at the favorable press articles for Dole (who should have learned from Nixon) before he started criticizing the press and after. The same thing also happens with liberal candidates- the first candidate to cry foul will never get favorable press again. People always pay more attention to the points they disagree with more than the ones they agree with- depending on the measure, our press is pretty representative of our opinions- if it wasn't, we wouldn't buy it.

Tax cut or pay raise- what difference does it make? If the investors get the money, it gets spent and goes back into the economy. If the government gets the money, it gets spent and goes back into the economy. The question is- who do you want to have control of it? If you raise taxes and reduce benefits for the poor, people will have to work harder for a living. The result of this harder work is growth in GDP. Ideally- the government can then invest the money in areas that develope our future strength. The same could be said for lowering wages and increasing investment in technological advancement. Perhaps a bigger question is whether you evaluate the economy based on how it affects people individually or how it affects the big number. Larry

Mdeneen- historical materialism isn't a very new idea and it has its flaws. Neo-marxists need to rethink a few things. Here is another perspective- technology mandates the type of society we have. In feudal times- production was reliant on independant units that had diverse tasks. This is because the technology of the time made the creation and transportation of food very labor intensive. Feudalism was created through improvements in technology (roads, cities, civilization) as a dominant means to organize these independant units- leading to benefits as well as costs. Families were also a necessity- children were the source of labor and a means to provide for you when you get old- and therefore an asset. Now, children are very costly and provide no economic benefit. In addition, since child birth is no longer a means to success, home automation reduces the time needed to be spent at home, and pre-packaged food is the norm- women do not need to be in the subserviant roles they have had for most of recorded history. In addition, the family is also not a necessity- look at how many successfull marriages are out there. The improvements in technology lead to Industrialized Societies. Labor became specialized, therefore requiring more control and coordination to make all the pieces fit together. Jefferson was opposed to industrialization and everything that went with it- centralized banking, corporations, loans, stock markets- he wanted everbody to have individual farms (in control of the means of production). Technology made this an inefficient use of people's time- why have everyone work on farms when 5% can do the job? However, as much as the concepts on this board are based in it- we are leaving industrial society behind. Information is becoming a top commodity. Perceptions are becomming more important than material costs in determining prices ($60 bottles of perfume with ingredients that cost just pennies- much less than the liscensing agreements or the packaging). Manufacturing value will become more and more based on engineering and refinement than cost of raw materials. The concepts of the last era are quickly loosing their relevance- including historical materialism. Everything is much more complex than dialectic oppositions- it would be easy if things were that simple. In addition to the technology of sales, marketing, production and information- the borders that seperate our countries are falling through communication and transportation technology. We cannot think of how our government and economy work in a closed system anymore- how do our laws relate to other countries. Be scared about our deflating Dollar in addition to the market. Historically, their are two ways to create a dominant society. 1- use tyranical government/industry to force everyone to work 60+ hours a week. I don't think most Americans want to do that. 2- exploit other countries. We can do this using economic means. If the value added by foriegn labor exceeds the money being sent overseas- that's a good thing for us. It also creates sales jobs and allows us to concentrate on more advanced ventures. However, there needs to be superiority in thinking by the dominant country if superior, direct military domination doesn't exist- or the weaker will start to take over. Look at us and the English empire (traditional empirialism) or Japan becoming an economic powerhouse (economic empirialism). However, we will need to invest substantially in R&D, IR, education, etc., to stay ahead. There will always be dominators and dominated. Your choices are: dominant government, dominant corporations, dominant ideology, dominant technology, etc. Do you want the dominated in this country or outside of it- leaving us the dominators? Is American ready for an official global empirialism policy? The means of domination may change along with our opinions about it. However, it will continue- human beings are pack animals- their will always be a lead dog. Jefferson recommended constant revolution- but, in a way, keeping people always fighting is also domination. Our goal is to find a form of dominant relationship that promotes the needs of this country to the greatest benefit and leaves the people happy. What makes a society happy goes way beyond materialism, which (once you surpass subsistance) only has value we assign to it. Being happy with accomplishment requires a challenge, goal, strategy to accomplish it, and it's completion- if we eliminate all struggle that will not exist. As human beings, the things we enjoy are often challenges- look at sports. On an abstract level, our goal should be to create a society where the challenges we present people are the most involving and rewarding possible- like playing a game. Just a few more ideas- Larry

Just a couple things to think about... There is a philosophical perspective that claims that domination is a constant. Government domination vs. corporate domination arguments- pick one or the other. Communism tried to create a society without domination- look how that turned out. If it is popular, it is still domination. Remember Hitler had amazingly high approval ratings and 2/3+ voted to eliminate their voting rights to eliminate him from office. The greatest domination is that in which those being dominated strongly support their domination. Are human beings limited in their ability to think for themselves? I look at Bose and I wonder... Government slows economic growth. It also slows negative economic growth (oxymoron?). Government acts as a buffer. They do not burn the money they take from us in taxes- it reenters the economy slowly. Along the way some vital programs get funded that are not supported by the markets- infrastructure, the environment, defense, education, etc. Along the way some pet projects also get funded, money gets wasted, and some social issues get addressed that many disagree on- social security, welfare, small business programs, medicare, etc. Regardless of where you stand, there need to be some changes and cuts. If you think all private charities address these issues more efficiently, I suggest you look at the budget of the United Way. In high school we raised a lot of money for them and I got to look at their budget. After administration, public awareness (advertising and PR), and fundraising costs- about 15% was going to the sponsored charities. Each of those charities also had administrative costs. Something else to think about- to be a "not for profit" corporation, you are not restricted from turning a profit or restricted in your salaries. You are supposed to keep profits under 15%, but if you go a little over, there really isn't any penalty. just trying to add a new perspective or two to the mix... tell me what your opinions are. I get the feeling that the comments on here are becoming a little more respectful (maybe just wishful thinking)- let's keep it up! Best wishes Larry PS- more investment tips?

Perhaps the most scary thing about the economy is what's going to happen in a few years from now. The Baby boomers are at peak earning potential now- what happens when they try to retire? There will be significantly more people not working than working. If people keep living longer, there is no way we can afford to have people retire at 65, unless they budget for it themselves. However, many of their investments are going down the drain. We should be saving up as a country for the inevitable effect of population fluctuations, but instead we have a squandering of money and trillions in unpaid debt. Remember- the "Social Security Trust Fund" is only an analogy- the money actually comes out of annual revenue. The people that are supposed to fund the mass retirement are part of the first generation in American history to make less money than their parents in real terms. How is this going to work? Seniors have always had amazing political power and I'm sure they will work out some kind of government program to keep them from starving to death- but it shouldn't have to come to that. We need to pay off our debts and make an investment in the future now. Or else we will really be hurting. Larry PS- Dollar is plummeting- down 15% this year compared to the Euro, which is now worth more. BMW has increased sales and profit- maybe a good investment even if only for the currency differences. Any other tips?