Mallette

John: It's a shame they elected not to support Jack's legacy. I really don't know how many people still have his classic speakers, but I'll bet they're loyal. Frazier was the only other speakers I recall PWK having anything really positive to say about. In the current climate, I think these designs would sell again. Pefect match with tube amps and very much kindred spirits to Klipsch. Looking at the specs for the Eleven, I find them almost unbelieveable. 107db/1/meter. Wow. The "Thing" is also awesome. The entire line really should sell like hotcakes in this market. Dave

Beyond any criticism of which I am capable (with the exceptation of the TT/cartridge as noted). The 78's played back dead center hanging in the air. While there was no width, there was depth to the mono, and even the oldest material (1922 acoustic...not even a straight wire and no gain at all) had a "you are there quality" Bill Haley and the Comets pinned me to the wall. Yeah, I really liked it. It's super when you can take your own familiar source to another system. Dave

Not much response to the "Speaker Help" thread, but the one I got is useful. So I've a couple of questions about reconing. First, seems I think of reconeing mainly with tears and damage directly to the paper. This speaker (the Frazier) is showing signs of being "sprung." Not sure what the tech term is for it, but generally result of overpower that seems to "spring" the piston out of line such that it rattles. Will reconeing cure this? Should one do this in pairs? The other is perfectly fine, but I'm wonder if the sonic qualities might be altered enough for them not to match. Pardon my ignorance, but I suddenlly realized I really knew nothing about this process. Dave

Those who know anything about me know I'm pretty conservative. Tubes, analog, etc. However, I believe Jeff has found audio nirvana along a different path. His speakers are all the dedicated Klipsch head could want...two Cornies and three Heresies, fine vintage Fisher 500B driving the front end. OTOH, there are those THREE foot tall SVS sub woofers in the corner with a kilowatt of brute SS amps. I asked him about why three. He casually said "Well, if I lived on a second floor or had a frame house, one would be enough, but this is what it takes to MOVE THE SLAB." And move the slab they did!!! The truly amazing thing is that the crossover from the Cornies to these brutes was completely transparent. On most material, you could not tell when they were in or out. However, when he played the Eagles concert DVD in DD5.1, the slab defintely shook with totally clean, gut jiggling, Sensurround, best seat in the house, BASS. I've no idea what it took to get the kind of balance Jeff has achieved here, but not even the most rabid purist would find anything to critique in this sound. This was my first time to hear a Cornwall anchored system. I can see now why Cornies have their own following. Just a bit less "in your face" than them big ol horns. The tapestry of the front was seamless between the Cornies and the Heresy. I had to walk up to the H to determine that it was working, and I didn't hear it discretely until I was about 2 feet away. I hauled my music server over and we hooked it to the 60 inch or so 1080i Mitsubishi that kept me feeling like I as at a drive-in theatre somewhere. Having just got my Card Deluxe two days ago, I was anxious both to hear it on another system and get some educated opinion. I'd spent the morning recording a few LP's and some 78's. The LP's included Louis Armstrong Audio Fidelity AFSD 6132, Enoch Light RS 915 SD, and Fennell/Cleveland Symphonic Winds Telarc 5038. Just having recently determined that there might be virtue in vinyl, Jeff's TT/cartridge can only be described as probably the best 35.00 investment one could make in a vinyl-less system. Certainly the 24/96 recordings sounded much better than direct LP playback. Given Jeff's uncanny ability to match the very finest components flawlessly, I really look forward to him really getting serious about LP playback. Turnout was a bit low. I was late after getting a bit lost in alien east Dallas and didn't get there until 3. Bob Lemker was just leaving and a bit dissappointed about not getting the hear the CDeluxe, and Mike Waters was there. A few minutes later Shawn Purcell and his son Chris arrived. So there was plenty of room in the "sweeet spot" (pretty much anywhere is pretty sweet in Jeff's system). Jeff's system should please anyone regardless of bias. His digital doesn't sound it, the balance between them massive subs with brute SS amp and the vintage Fisher VT amp is sheer perfection, DD5.1 takes you right THERE to the concert, and only the LP playback needs attention...but it wouldn't be fun if there was really nothing left to do! There was much more, but I grow verbose and want to go listen! Basically, another really great audio get together for the DFW Klipsch Forum. So who's up next???? Dave

...with my vintage Frazier Monte Carlos. One of them has a rattling woofer/mid. I use these as rears with my Khorns and DynaQuad and really hate having to turn them way down. As they produce 94db/watt/meter, none others need apply. Here's the info I have: 8", 28oz ceramic magnet, 1.25 inch voice coil. crossover, 4khz Also, the specs I have are, I believe, for an "improved" model over the one I have. I wonder if I could upgrade the tweeters? I believe mine are dynamic, and the spec sheet I have says these are a "direct coupled piezoelectric super horn," no size given. I've had these since 1968 and really love them. They are the best match to Heritage I've ever heard. All response truly appreciated!

Ken, I totally agree with dnd and jm. Until CDeluxe I simply did not listen to digital except for my own and about 4 discs other than in the car. Can you tell me of a CD player for the price that sounds this good? Even if their were such a player, it wouldn't record 24/96 and store an unlimited amount of immediately available CD's. It's not just bargain, it's damn near free compared to other high-end gear. And it is DEFINITELY high-end. Have you heard the card? Of course, you all should be getting some other opinions in the next couple of days, as today is the DFW Klipsch Forum meeting at Jeff's (eq_shadimar). Dave

Andykub: You will have to explain what you thought I said :-> Really...I would expect the same PERCENTAGE of ills to plague SACD as CD as LP as DVD-A, as you've got the same likelyhood of incompetent engineers. And I would expect that it will, for quite some time, still take a lot more money thrown at the digital end to equal analog. I've got it to 400.00 plus an old computer, but that is still a lot more than a used turntable and an old amp with a phono input. Dave

"Fan" would be pushing it, but I was there and it was before pot, so I remember. The main thing, however is that wonderful pressing. I rather doubt the original releases sound that good. I know the 45's didn't :-). Dave

Card Deluxe was compared favorably to a 15,000 Mark Levinson DAC in a $tereophile review. I suspect you can still find it at stereophile.com. Also, check it out directly at http://www.digitalaudiolabs.com. I did a LOT of research, but no direct A/B as this is a bit difficult with sound cards. My previous card is a Turtle Beach Pinnacle...really quite good as well but not in a class with CD. Dave

I have a 100.00 Rat Shack reciever hooked to Advent computer speakers in my daughters room. The FM sounds better than the average CD players. Isn't this cheap op amps as well? Also, part of my point is that each medium has it's own engineering and aesthetic challenges that work out about equally in their deliterious effects when handled poorly. With my new player, I have found about the same percentage of poor sounding CD's as LP's. Granted, the best LP's still sound superior, but the gap is no where near as vast as before. Dave

Some of the issues addressed in this thread will be found in my "Card Deluxe...Indeed" thread of today. Basically, I've determined to my own satisfaction that the issues with digital are precisely the same type as those that plagued analog...engineering and execution. Certainly, I've found that 24/96 recordings of LP's are the most satisfying since reel to reel, and I can now listen to better quality CD's without feeling like I'm drinking a diet coke accompanied by a rice cake. It actually seems a bit odd to me that affordable CD players are SO unsatisfying. Seems like even cheap DACS should do a better job...but they don't. Even a 100.00 Rat Shack TT and cartridge still sounds better. I constantly more amazed that the act of chiseling the image of sound into a material and recovering it so largely intact, as crude as that process appears (more like cuneiform compared to a word processor than a phonograph disc compared to digital), is so much more accessible than achieving satisfying digital. Dave

I've had a day to play with Card Deluxe. First and foremost...for the first time I can clearly hear digital artifacting of all types. "Digital artifacting" in this case means poor dithering/transcoding, frequency cieling, grittiness, lack of transparency and all such ills generally specific to the digital medium. The big thing is that I've found that these ills are present in about the same percentage of recordings (80% or so) that afflicted the LP in it's primacy. There is no longer any question in my mind that the controversy over digital media resides mainly in the playback chain. I've long suspected that this was the case. I've never even seen a CD player costing over a couple of hundred bucks, and few of us really understand what is going on in there. However, the fact that debate rages over digital vs. analog itself is enough to suggest something is wrong at most sweet spots. Further, it is now apparent to me that another thing I've believed, that a low end turntable with a low end cartridge will run musical circles around the average CD player, is beyond doubt. What's with this thing? Doesn't even appear as complex as a SoundBlaster. Handful of capacitors and some very small ic's. Must be some magic somewhere in there! The I/O's are real telephone jacks balanced/unbalanced (jumper selectable). S/pdif is gold RCA. Very solid. Went in without a hitch. OTOH, there was absolutely NO software. At this price they really could include some sort of basic recorder. I had to locate and download recording software. I finally wound up with n-Track Studio. This was frustrating. I was trying to save a few bucks, and n-Track appeared to be 42.00. I tested the evaluation download, which was limited to 1 minute of 24 bit recording, and it appeared good. So I purchased registration and started to really test. It stopped at 1 minute saying I needed to register the @$ BIT VERSION!. Upon closer examination, I found this to be true...the 24 bit version was another 20 bucks, though you had to look close to determine that. By this time, I'm within 10 bucks of Quartz Project, which I would have prefered. Oh, well. So I proceeded to make a 24/96 recording of the Jan and Dean Audio Encores (AE1-1003) pressing. Playback was a revelation. Perfect? Not quite, not as immediate or transparent...but by far the most satisfying recording of an LP I've heard since 15 ips reel to reel with DBX. Better than most LP's, and that is a STRETCH for old "analog forever" Dave. HDD usage for 24:00 was about 840 meg. No question there is more info there! As to CD playback, I went straight to "Laudemus Te" on the Pomp and Pipes disc. WOW. TIGHT bass, sonorous brass, smooth musical mid. Next to Nitty Gritty Dirt Band. This one I've in both LP and CD, and had always found the LP much more listenable and engaging. Now, the gap is far smaller. Except for that slight since of "brick cieling," the CD is completely listenable. Spent a little time with lesser CD's, Eagles, old Stones, etc. All much more listenable, though digital artifacting was more apparent than before. Of course, that's a good thing...tells me WHERE the problem is rather than simply not sounding good. Bottom line: CDeluxe and an old computer is the way to go if you can't put a kilobuck or more to put into a dedicated high end CD player. Further, with 80 meg HDD's going for less than a 100.00 and storing a 150 easy to access CD's the fiddle factor can be eliminated, as well as potential CD damage. While I hear about CD copy protection, I've not run into any yet and rather doubt it will be "grandfathered" into the thousands of already published discs. Next, I'm looking forward to pairing it with my ribbon mics, VT mic preamp, and doing a 24/96 field recording. That should happen at the end of the month when I am booked to do a chamber music recording with members of the Dallas Symphony. More then! Digital Dave

Woo Hoo, looking forward to Saturday! I'll bring a couple of discs, as well as perhaps the new music server with the Card Deluxe (which I am checking the front door for about every 5 minutes). Fisher was the the first "high end" gear to which I was exposed in the 60's. Heard one with those big old Warfedales with the sand filled boxes. How's the FM section? Dave

Interesting, and not surprising. While I still believe that vinyl will never be anything like competition to digital, I suspect that the numbers are going to be much higher than I expected. Damn, more competition for the old stacks of well worn wax... My Card Deluxe will arrive tomorrow, and I intend to do a related experiment. I am going to make a DVD-A spec recording to HDD from my Jan and Dean record...one of the finest pressings I've ever heard, and A-B listen. May take it to the Klipsch forum meeting this weekend for better opinions. BTW, unless volume is absolutely balanced it is darn near impossible to do a good listening test. Dave ------------------ David A. Mallett Come taste muh'

What kind of material are you listening to on DVD-A? I actually thought DVD-A was 24/96...either way I've not had a chance to hear it. The only multi-channel I hear is Dolby/DTS stuff, and while immersive for movies always seems contrived and "steered." Just not natural. As I mention ad nauseum on the list, the only multi-channel I've found musically satisfying is the DynaQuad setup. OTOH, I certainly agree that two channels only is, at best, 2 dimensional. No music heard live is 2 dimensional. I find the arguments for two channel as somehow superior to all other forms no more convincing that those who argue for mono. Personally, I like it DONE WELL, no matter how many or how few channels! Dave

Well, remember you ARE listening to CD's...thru the tuner. However, the station is probably using pretty pricey players...and that's the rub. 70's tuners, including Sansui, are highly regarded. I've a Sony ST3950 I paid 39.00 for at a pawn shop, and I love it. For my taste, I expect that a dedicated CD player I could enjoy would start at around 1500.00, which is out of range. So I build one, using a 300.00 Dell 410 server with a pull out drive bay that will hold 5 HDDs. I am using a Pinnacle sound card, and the sound is the best CD sound I've ever heard. Mind you, I've not been exposed to real high end CD players, but I've had plenty of the basic variety. Couldn't listen very long. I've an 80gig drive at the moment that will hold around 150 CD's untranscoded. I'll add more drives as I need more space. I am basically analog, 1500 or so LP's and a few hundred 78's. Never found any digital as satisfying on really serious music. I do intend to get a 24/96 capable card soon and will try some transfers to see if that helps. Dave ------------------ David A. Mallett Come taste muh' Klipsch! This message has been edited by Mallett on 08-17-2002 at 07:38 PM

I had a similar problem between HT and DynaQuad (for music). I got excellent results with a Niles Audio DPS-1. The biggest hassles is that you have to put bayonets on all the cords, as the I/O is via holes with screw-down tighteners. However, once up, it was a simple and effect method for switching. I didn't really see anything else on the market for this purpose. I considered old fashioned knife switches at one point, but ruled it out on both safety (of the equipment) and operation by the wife. BTW, I have an ST70 I carried around for 30 years that is even now with Frank Van Alstine for rebuild. I've a Super PAS4i preamp that will be the front end. Looking forward to it! Dave This message has been edited by Mallett on 08-17-2002 at 05:04 PM

A lovely and appropriate reply. So far, Ron has accumulated 2 Cornwalls, a Scott 229C, and a VT phono preamp for a total of 25.71 (counting the 4 cents he found in one Cornwall). I think that worthy of note. Even as my best friend, I really HATE him sometimes... Dave

phono stage. He called me about it and said it was chrome, nice condition, top notch components, and marked "AMD" made in Japan. I told him most VT phono stages were worth at least 75 cents. Anybody know anything about AMD? Dave

I just paid for 2 years! That doesn't bother me near as much as the loss of the best audio rag in the business. Can't believe it. What a bummer. Gawd, stuck with $tereophile as the only source of info. Dave

You will get a lot of opinions, but the ST-70 is considered by many to be the single most cost effective hifi music machine ever built...especially when teamed with K'horns or other Heritage. The high priced crowd won't give it much space, but good ears don't lie. Mine is currently with Frank Van Alstine undergoing rebuild after 30 years of being hauled around. Dave

If you can nab Rat Shack LS-5's on sale at 75.00 a piece, they are the best sound available to several times that price. No BS. I've used them in my HT for 10 years and the Linaeum ribbons are really quite sweet. You can shove a few drinking straws in the port to tighten up the somewhat muddy bass...I use a sub. That leaves 250.00 for which you should be able to get a decent amp and CD player. Well, the CD player won't be very decent, but hey, you gotta budget. Dave

Una confederation muy barracho de los amigos stereophonique. No lo sabemos si es caca o si es Shinola, pero sabemos El Klipsch es el rey. Hell, I can massacre espanol as well as any non-hispanic Texan. Dave

The DFW Klipsch Forum was started by Mike Waters "GOOD2BEHOME" on the forum. We first met at my house in Flower Mound in June. Jeff Savage is setting the date for the next gathering: "Unless someone else want to host this time around I am volunteering. I am still having troubles getting the parts for update my Fisher Tube amp but I am now turntable equipped. I can also demo DVD-A, SCAD, HDCD, and CD formats. If you guys want to send me the general times you might be free within the next couple of weeks I will try and see if there is a good date to meet. Laters, Jeff (Klipsch BB ID eq_shadimar)" At my home, Bill Barista brought a wondrous VT70i amp we thoroughly enjoyed, and everyone brought software. Hit of the day was a Louis Armstrong/Ella Fitzgerald Verve pressing. Regardless of tasted, all thought awesome...2 were SAVED (decided to get turntables:-)). Anyway, all you need to do is send me a note at damallett@attbi.com and I'll drop you in the loop. Qualifications? 1. Love music. 2. Love Klipsch. Dave

Out of deference to the thread orignator, see "DFW Klipsch Forum" here in 2 channel for details. Dave