henry4841

I just want to say one other thing about Dean. Judging by what I just said about him do not get the impression we are real close chummy buddies. We are friends, we both have said as much openly on this forum but we have had some opinionated discussions in private messages and openly on this forum before. Friends do that sometime, but he is still a friend. I wish we all considered ourselves here as friends and treat each other as such. This is after all a Klipsch forum for Klipsch loving members to participate in. Dean and I remind me of what an old man told me when I was in my 20's. He said him and his wife had been married for over 50 years and had never had a fight. But they have been known to wake up the neighbors discussing things early in the morning.

I do enjoy building more so than doing repairs of audio gear. The problem is nothing I want to build that I have not already built in a tube amplifier. At least this amplifier is a first in a couple of ways. First mono build and using what I think are really good parts. That and the first wood chassis that I have made using hand cut dovetails. Even if I want to build another one right after this one there is always the problem of waiting till I have the money it cost to build to throw away. I'll most likely start some other electronic project if not a tube amplifier. I still have the SS Aleph J to take out it's test chassis and put in a proper chassis that I have already bought just sitting waiting on me to get started. That and many other projects I started and I got tired of fooling with and started on another project that might not get finished either. It happens here in this house.

All I have to really say about Dean and his new association with Klipsch is that Dean is a long time member of this forum who has been building and selling crossovers here for a long time. From what little I know of him he seems to be a straight guy, no worries about your money, and from the pictures I have seen does good quality work. We should be proud for him and give him our support. As far as what I said about engineers, it is just what I was taught in an online electronic course I bought a few years back the way an engineer is supposed to pick out a part. Now whether the guy at Klipsch did it that way, I have no idea. At a certain point one has to trust an audio company has done it's job and picked a good looking, on data paper, capacitor for the one they chose to use. From a few postings of the ones already in the field the Klipsch capacitors chose have been positive. I am sure if they get enough of their crossovers out in the field they will use this forum as a tool and if the reviews are favorable OK and if not do a change of the cap. Nelson Pass does much the same on his section at diyaudio.com. He has stated that many times he hears of something new on that forum that he did not know. A lot can be learned from feedback.

Well said.

I agree whole heartily. My understanding of what Klipsch sound engineers did is study the data sheets looking over them for the specs they wanted in a capacitor. After doing that they went to their supplier and said we want capacitors with these stats. Then the supplier either had them in stock, what the engineers wanted, or designed one specifically for them. After getting those capacitors I am sure they built crossovers with them and did some listening of what they had just built to see if it meets their specifications. If so they have exactly the sound they are looking for. How do I know all this, from some online electronic classes I have taken over the last ten years of being retired. I did take some electronic courses in my teens and early 20's but most of that was forgotten other than the basics. On one class the only thing discussed was how an engineer picks an electronic part, data sheets. Then another lesson on what the engineer is looking for on that data sheet. Electronic engineers pay no attention what is said on any social media forum. The deal with hard electronic facts and data sheets. Not the hype of my capacitor sounds better than the capacitor you like. That is BS and it happens a lot of social forums. Never see talk like that on technical forums. I've tried to stay away from all the thread talk of capacitors on this forum. As Dean said nothing good ever comes from doing so.

Personally I see what Roy has done as great news for owners of older Klipsch speakers. Now we have an opportunity to hear what real sound engineers have determined is the best sound for their speakers instead of some aftermarket seller of crossovers or repairs with no or very little electronic background or degrees. They have been selling their version of good sound with their capacitors and networks for many years before Klipsch got into the game. Now we have the Klipsch sound, a big well known old audio company with sound engineers designing their signature sound. All the better audio companies have their own signature of sound and consistently stick with that sound so consumers can know what to expect when they purchase their product. Face it guys those old crossovers and capacitors were designed years ago by one of the best, PWK, but since then better components and progress in the audio field has been made. I am curious what those guys have came up with sound wise to represent their sound in 2022 in their old speakers. And Dean is one of if not the only one that provide that service for those not wanting to work on their crossovers themselves. One can expect to pay slightly more, but hey you are getting Klipsch approved components. R&D people have to be paid. They do not work for free. I bet I am not the only one curious what they came up with. Now Dean has the full backing of the guys with sound engineering degrees behind him. Lucky guy. None of the other guys we have been talking about for years can say that.

We call him Big Boss Man down here in the south. Those that work under him are called straw bosses. I like his handle. Chief Bonehead. I'll try and stay on his good side.

I just take it one day at a time.

Is Chief Bonehead Roy? Judging by the handle I just assume he is.

I've recommended that amp on this forum without ever hearing it in the past. Looked like a good solid buy at Amazon from all the positive reviews there. Nicer looking at an in home setting. I would be proud owning it as well. I bet the sound will only get better with a 100 hours on them tubes. Lots of gas emitted from a new tube needing to be caught by the getter when new.

Last night. Well recorded.

On the previous page I posted the distortion profile of my two signal generators I am now using with the Arta distortion software. For those that do not know a really good new distortion analyzer gets into the thousands of dollars and I have watched videos of those that have an expensive distortion analyzer say that software like Arta is plenty good enough and the best thing is it is a free download. Look at the two pictures of the images and you can see the primary signal, 1Khz from both generators, looks much better with the $100 Chinese generator. Not unexpected since the BK 4003a I just bought is rated at 2% distortion new. For repair work on the bench the BK is more what a repairman wants for $350 though. Signal plenty good enough for audio work with a scope and the BK is much simpler and easier to use. Does what it is supposed to do and built to last and serve someone who makes a living working with electronics. The Chinese $100 one is aimed more for the hobbyist with price a determining factor on quality. Neither one of them are built for distortion analyzing of an audio signal. Both have too much distortion on the signal for serious analysis of an audio amplifier. I still need to shop around for a better generator for distortion analyzing. That is if I want to do any more looking at distortion profiles again. Aimed more for designers than what I like doing with electronics. Fun playing with something that cost practically nothing though for audio enthusiast.

I decided to stop right here for now and order some black screws to hold the parts underneath the top plate instead of the shiny ones I started using. I think it will more attractive that way. Ordered on Amazon expected Sunday with Prime. Be just in time to start again Monday morning. Just thought I would add I have decided to hang onto this build. Too pretty for me to sale just now. Let's just enjoy the building together.

I added some more info on your build on the above post you may want to read again. I believe you are very satisfied with the price you paid for what you got. At least I hope so.

I forgot to add that included in the miss fee were the RCA input jacks, IEC connector, fuse holder, switch and speaker out jacks. All I had in stock and was not about to go searching for what all that cost again. Just added miss $35 to the low cost build. I tried to be honest as I could on that last build. The selling price for the amp was $100 over the parts which was $469 then after some back and forth with Area51 he decided he liked the idea of a cherry wood stand for the amp to sit in. I told him I would build one for $100 for him raising the cost to $569. The stand did raise the look a lot. That project came about with the talk on this forum of the cost of building a good low cost amplifier and I wanted to see what I could build one for using good parts and not the lowest cost parts that could be found. I have given some thought about the Premium build and right now my thoughts are it is not going to be for sale after I finish building it. At least for awhile, months, years down the road. I have just got too attached to that amplifier and it is the first mono build for me along with using some of the best parts, within reason, I have ever used to build an amp. The price of the iron alone was close to the $300 price George mentioned about the low cost build. I had thoughts of asking $900 plus shipping and my paypal fee which is going to total right at $100. $1000. total. I feel like I would be leaving money on the table at that price. I honestly think an amplifier built the way I am building this one would be closer to being actually worth $1500. Since I have decided to keep the Premium I think it will alright to say my thoughts on pricing when I was considering selling it. The other two pretty wood builds of mine are built with what are called box joints that are made with a jig on a table saw. Not hand cut dovetails as this one and they were built with walnut and maple I believe. This one is built using solid cherry. This chassis starts out about as basic as you can get. Pieces of solid wood and heavy gauge sheet metal then cut and machined and put together with hand cut dovetails. Lots of myself put into this build. I need to hang on to this amplifier and enjoy it for a while and not sell it. I am enjoying it now just looking at it. I could use extra money for sure but I do not actually need any. I am getting by better than many with my SS.

I am proud you like it Maynard. You builds though always look better than mine on the inside. If we can talk Maynard into building a Sweetie someone will have a excellent amplifier they can be proud of for many years. I have been twisting his arm a little bit.

I have done that myself a few times but I could not find a correct PS transformer at Mouser so I went with two PS transformers. Judging by some prices at say Edcor for a adequate PS transformer for stereo the price is about the same as buying 2 Hammond PS transformers. That and I have never built mono amplifiers. I put everything in one chassis being I think this way is more practical. Something new for me. Just trying to have some fun doing something I really enjoy doing.

This is the final cost of the low cost Sweetie $369. +100 labor putting all the parts together, + $100 for the wood case total $569 was what I was paid plus shipping and paypal fee. I added $35 to parts list being I used my supplies like wire, solder, standoffs, nuts, screws. etc. I believe it actually was slightly more than $35. The listed prices include tax and the high price shipping cost getting everything to my house. Chassis 44.20 Hammond 131.00 PS tran 50.50 Tubedepot 65.22 Mouser 42.69 Miss 35.00 Total $369. The Premium build is rising pretty fast. My estimate is going to be $500 or really close to it just for the parts.

A little more done today.

Good work CWelsh. Those considering now or in the future when they run across this thread will appreciate all the work you did if they decide to take on this project and will be rewarded with a darn good SET tube amplifier at a good price using quality parts. You are to be commended.

My other signal generator profile. Harmonics are better along with noise floor but higher distortion number than the new signal generator. New for me that is. 1.42% total distortion and noise in the signal generator. Even a higher number than the other generator .66% but the profile of the characteristics of the signal look better. But neither one is good enough to get an accurate picture of what the amplifier harmonic profile truly looks like. Oh well had fun playing with Arta again. I do have the HP radio frequency generator I use for tuner alignment and I believe it does have an audio frequency output as well. Have to check it at some other time. Probably better than either one of these cheap generators even though it is 30 or more years old. Comparing the pictures of both the generators you can see the new generator has many more higher frequencies distortion inherent in the signal than the $100 Chinese generator. Neither one looks very good for distortion work though. I do still have what is called a FFT distortion function on my oscilloscope I could use for a general idea of what the amplifier is doing but I am not going to play with it today.

I did delete my findings using Arta on the Sweetie yesterday. The reason being is that my new signal generator has too much distortion to give an accurate picture of what the amplifier is doing. I just hooked my generator up to Arta and below is what I found. Way too much internal distortion to use with a harmonic distortion analyzer. My findings yesterday was terrible wrong about the Sweetie. I still have one of those Chinese wonders and I will see how it looks on Arta and possible give an accurate picture of the distortion analysis on the Sweetie. Pictures are the distortion of the signal generator I used yesterday along with another picture of my setup to use Arta. Laptop with Windows, signal generator, decent external sound card and attenuation box. I still have the plans for the attenuation box for someone to build if interested in playing with the harmonic profile of your builds. As you can see way in the picture too much distortion to use with Arta.

It was virtual last year and I bought tickets. Could have asked questions but did not. There to learn. Will be available by Zoom as well. Probably be some interest on the SS threads as well but for now let us be the only ones to know. Great event to hear some of the best sound guys. From my email; The live event returns to Fort Mason Center after a two year hiatus! We are also continuing the Online via Zoom broadcast of the Saturday and Sunday presenters for those who cannot attend in person. Tickets are now on sale! (Online via Zoom tickets will be available later this month.) https://www.eventbrite.com/e/burning-amp-2022-october-15th-16th-fort-mason-sf-online-via-zoom-tickets-413085428637 See you there! Tom V https://burningampfestival.com Schedule Saturday afternoon is educational seminars with Demian Martin and Scott Hinson. Saturday morning is the ACA Redux Build Camp hosted by Nelson Brock (limited seating, separate material fee required). Sunday is the full day Burning Amp Festival from 9:00am until 8:00pm. Bring your audio projects for display! (If you are bringing a project to display please arrive by 9:30.) Sunday afternoon speakers will include Jon Ver Halen, Tony Salsich, and Nelson Pass . Following will be an auction, raffle, and social hour. Presenters Scott Hinson: Speaker Design and Measurement Techniques Scott Hinson is probably best known to the DIY community for 70 plus loudspeaker design white papers at facebook.com/DIYRM, covering all aspects of design, measurement and construction. He's been involved in DIY audio since 1995 when he ran "The Bass List" out of the listserv system while an engineering student at The University of Texas at Austin. In the following years Scott designed medical devices, space rated high reliability battery management systems, amplifiers, power supplies and all sorts of things that could shock you. (One of which was the TEMS system for a multi-modal muscle electro-stimulation device.) Scott now researches renewable energy integration into the grid. In the commercial audio world, Scott consults on and designs audiophile, pro-sound, and studio loudspeaker systems for numerous clients all over the globe. Demian Martin: Tools & Techniques for Measuring and Troubleshooting Audio Electronics Demian returns having presented at the two previous Burning Amps. After college (UCSC) Demian Martin worked for Four Phase Systems, a pioneering semiconductor/computer company designing peripheral interfaces. He then went on to work at Dysan designing disk drive test equipment. Finding that work not really interesting, he went on to cofound Spectral Audio with Rick Fryer and designed all the first generation products. After a few years he left to start the subwoofer company Entec to commercialize Keith Johnson’s subwoofer servo in a family of subwoofers. He also worked with Jerry Crosby developing the CAW Quad modification during that period. He then moved on to work as Monster Cable’s Director of Engineering. At Monster he was responsible for designing cables (both audio and RF/video) including the industry’s most advanced HDMI cables. Other products he designed or helped design at Monster Cable Products included the original Beats headphone, the subsequent headphone products, all the power products, and all the speakers. In addition to his consulting work at Monster Cable Products, since 2000 he has been consulting for audio companies including NuForce, NuPrime, and Constellation. He has 27 issued patents. Jon Ver Halen: Why Full Range? Jon Ver Halen graduated from Purdue with honors and then a masters degree in engineering, also from Purdue. He has been building speakers since his undergraduate days. At some point he took an interest in SET’s, designing and building a number of amplifiers. Since his wife would not tolerate the big horns that he so desired, Jon turned to high efficiency single drivers systems. He started importing the Lowther speakers in 2000. While importing those speakers he designed a pair of commercial speakers, the Alerion and LOB (little open baffle). He is now the importer the Cube Audio line of speakers. In his spare time Jon designs custom cranes that have been used by Space-X, Norad stations, various nuclear power stations and even Disney World. He also acts as an expert witness in civil lawsuits determining how products failed, and the liability of various parties. This work supplies the income to support his ever-more-expensive hobby. Tony Salsich: The Hill Type I Plasma Speaker: How It Works, and How You Can Hear It For Yourself Tony Salsich worked for Alan Hill at Plasmatronics Inc. from 1977 to 1990. He helped design some of the electronics supporting the Hill type I plasma loudspeaker and worked the CES shows with Alan. During those years he got an incomparable education in pulsed power and laser physics. He currently designs welding and induction heating power sources for Miller Electric in Appleton, WI. When faced with the 2020 Covid lockdown, Tony finally accomplished his dream of resurrecting his personal pair of plasma speakers; designing the high voltage power supplies and class A amps from scratch. Tony also plays the Gansa in a Balinese Gamelan group. Nelson Pass: Current Topics “Papa” Nelson Pass needs little introduction to the DIY community and to attendees of Burning Amp having been there from the start. In 1974, he received his BS in physics from the University of California-Davis. While there he and Mike Maher founded the small speaker company PMA. From 1973 to 1974, he was employed at ESS and assisted Dr. Oskar Heil with crossover design, woofer selection, and final build cabinetry of audiophile, consumer grade loudspeakers. Nelson Pass holds 6 patents related to magneplanar speakers. After graduating in 1974, he and René Besne founded Threshold Electronics. Threshold is perhaps best known for the "Stasis" amplifiers . He sold Threshold Electronics in 1997. In the mid 1980s, Pass also designed the well-reviewed Adcom GFA-555 amplifer. Pass Labs was founded in 1991. Notable Pass Class A product lines include the "Aleph" series of single-ended amplifiers. The X series amplifiers, which make use of the SuperSymmetry topology (patented by Pass) giving extremely low distortion levels, and the XA series, which combine the two. In parallel with Pass Labs, Pass also runs First Watt, a "kitchen table" commercial venture which produces, in very limited numbers, low-power / minimalist Class A designs. Nelson Pass has been a champion of the DIY community for decades, beginning with a series of articles in Audio Amateur magazine introducing the “Zen” variations, amplifiers that answer the question “What is the sound of one transistor clapping?” His more recent designs introduced at prior Burning Amps, include the ACA (Amp Camp Amp), DIY Bi-Amp 6-24 Crossover, ACP+ (Amp Camp Pre-amp + Headphone Amp) and most recently the ACA Mini. His Moth SLOB (Slot-Loaded Open Baffle) was built at the Speaker Camp held this June in Sonoma County.

Decided to give them a try. Bought 4 LP's this morning. I will let everyone know what I think of their service when I get and play the records.

Guys I want to thank ya'll for your input on this chassis build. I still like the way it turned out. It is me and my personality. I did listen and sprayed a coat of clear enamel on the aluminum for protection against stains. Something I have not and would not do for a amplifier I was building solely for myself. Wood and bare aluminum look is what I like. Nothing frilly about the look of this amplifier. Now I will see if I can still build an amplifier to go along with this case. At least I did last month. At 73 one never really knows what the day may bring.