ka7niq

They are probably playing at the Egg and I, or Hedges Wigwam on Woodward ? I live in Tampa area now, but born in Detroit, grew up in Hazel Park and Warren.

I sold me Klipschorns over a year ago. I have Speaker Lab Clones. They are called SpeakerLab SK's. The tweeter was told to me to be an EV T 350 or SpeakerLabs version of same It is vertically oriented. My crossover has L Pads on both the midrange and tweeters to control their levels. I think they need to be cleaned, the speakers are quite old. I went to radio shack and bought new caps. I used a Mylar on the tweeter, and Non Polar Elctrolytic on midrange. I had to parallel a few caps to get the value I wanted. I do plan on buying better caps, this was all Radio Shak had, and the "Spirit" moved me. I bought this cool 5 band pro EQ, it is called a Tascam. It is a Parametric EQ with adjustable width, notch, and frequency. It is most unusual for a Pro Piece of gear in that it has all RCA Jacks instead of balanced connectors. Kinda make it more user friendly for a guy like me w/o a balanced system. I don't really know the right way to EQ. I remember Soundcraftsmen once had a EQ Record. Think maybe I will trust my ears, since I don't have caliobration stuff. I do have a pink noise CD ....

I do hear it on these speakers, but it isn't bothering me as much as it has in the past. No speaker is perfect in every way. The last pair of Klipschorns I had could sound like a Tuba at times. They were used ones, pretty old too. Maybe there was broken wood/loose woofer ? At any rate, I am sure glad I removed all the stuffing from my rear woofer chamber. Sure sounds better.

Just wondered what your experience has been using a bit of EQ on corner horns ? Back in the early 80's, I went out to dinner in Seattle with Mark Levinson. Mark was in town with his master tape machine at a local dealer friends store. We all went out to the Space needle in Seattle for dinner. I asked Mark what commercial speaker in his opinion was the ultimate. To my suprise,, he told me Klipschorns! He said they needed to be equalized, and the tweeter eedd to come out and be turned vertical so they image better. I have corner horns, and I have a 5 band Parametric stereo EQ, a pro unit. My horns sound pretty fair, but maybe with a little EQ they can sound better ? I also have a 50 lb JVC Receiver with a 3 band digital parametric built in I could try.

Yes, they sure are! I got a pair, almost gave up on em too. The guy had the rear woofer chamber overstuffed with Dacron Sheets. Bass was boomy and loose, and woody mid range coloration from the woofer dominated the sound. L Pads were dirty and loose, caps bad. Replaced caps, tighten and cleaned L Pads, took all stuffing out of rear woofer chamber. Upon Freddi's advice, wired woofer up to the speaker wires, bypassing inductor. Man, these bastards rock! Kick *** bass, decent imaging and highs, and smooth as silk. Almost laid back a bit in comparison to Klipschorns. These are way underrated and overlooked from what I hear. I MIGHT add just a little stuffing back, kinda playing with that, and wanna brace the access door up a bit. I used to live in Seattle when SpeakerLab was in it;s heyday. Many don't know Dave Grabner was a partner in SpeakerLab, and went on to own Bohlender Grabner in Nevada. They made Carver ribbon for him, and still making ribbons today. What happened to Pat Snyder is anyone;s guess ? Then there was Mile Nesterovic, Bruce Bronczyk, and the all the good people of the Pacific North West who worked there. Seattle was a rocking town back in late 70's, early 80's. Seattle was Jimi Hendrix home town , also was home to Heart, Nirvana, Queensryche, Pearl Jam, and many other great Rock acts. Steve Miller had a home there. I know PWK hated these, and I can see why. Bruce Edgar was not kind to them either. Be that as it may, and the only Salad Bowl I have ever had in my home is the one I eat out of ..... so far. Maybe someday I can hang an Edgar Salad Bowl on top of these bass cabinets ? Might even change the woofers, but why ? These rock, and pressurize my room pretty nice. Maybe the guys at SpeakerLab were really stoned the day they made some of these woofers ? Whatever, mine seem to be ok ? I wonder WHAT tweeters these are in my SK's ? The guy I bought em from said they were EV T 350's, but DJK says they are WA 8000's, or something like that ? I have had Cornwallis and Klipschorns in the last two years. This is a better tweeter, whatever it is. Haven't rope caulked the metal mid range horn yet, and haven't felt the need. I just have Radio Shack caps in em right now, but plan to put a Polystyrene cap on the tweeter, and something better then the Non Polar electro's I got from Radio Shack for the mid range. I do not know if these are alnico drivers, and if they need new magnetism either, or how you tell ?

I was told to short out my woofer inductor, so I just hooked my woofer directly up to the amplifier wires going to my crossover. The bass improved a LOT. These SpeakerLab SK's are old, I think a good cleaning of everything is in order. I changed capactors, replacing them with same values and types. Plan to get better ones, these were all radio shak had. The crossover uses an 8 ohm resistir on the midrange and tweeter. The guy said it is an EV t 350 tweeter, it has a big round magnet The mids and tweet is on L Pads that were really loose. I tighten em down, and turned all L pads 25 or more times up0 and down to9 try mechanically clean em. Might have to replace em, maybe spray some cramolin ? I think woofer sound better running all the way up so far. Woody sound is becoming less and less, maybe getting used to it. These have stronger bass then Klipschorns I had a year ago in my room. Getting addicted to folded horn sound and majesty. Makes my other stuff sound like toys.

Whether or not stuffing makes a sealed box bomier or tighter is dependant on many other variables. In other words, one sealed alignment could get bomier with stuffing added while another sealed alignment will get tighter. There is no direct audible trend. The same is true for the rear chamber on horns. Stuffing on a khorn is bad while stuffing on another horn designed to have stuffing will be good. Since the SpeakerLabs are Klipsch clones, and Klipsch don't want stuffing ?? I just listened to both speakers with all stuffing removed. Bass is tighter, but I do seem to have lost a BIT of low bass. I guess I will just have to play ? All corner horns, actually every folded horn I have ever owned, and this includes Belle's, Horns, and La scala seem to have a folded horn woody sound for lack of a better word. You know what I am talkin about Mike ? A Coloration that makes Oak Ridge Boys sound like Barry White. I am coming to conclusion no speaker is perfect, and man I love what a folded horn does otherwise. I do have a 5 band stereo Parametric EQ, gonna hook it up and play. It is a pro unit with variable everything See if what Mark Levinson told me long ago is true ? He said Klipschorns are the ultimate speakers but only with EQ, and to get the tweeters vertical for imaging. Wonder if I can EQ out the woody sound of folded horns ?

Thanks everyone. I removed all the stuffing, including a bunch I added. Now it sounds like folded horn bass, no more boom. Actually, I was getting a woofy sound on some male voices, like Barry Sadler singing Green Berets and some Cat Stevens. That sound is almost gone now too. I still have to re seal the woofer side doors, but I can hear the difference it makes. These speakers have old L Pads, can they go bad ? They still adjust, can they be cleaned with cramolin ? I replaced crossover caps, left resistors. Anything else to do to old horns ?

Where is Burton, Michigan ? I am originally from Warren Michigan near Detroit. Is Burton over by Electrovoice ?

The double bazooka antenna is a controversial one. Many seem to think it has magical properties. The Extended double Zepp really does have magical properties callled Gain in it's favored direction. I once had a 3000 foot loop of wire strung up in some trees back in Washington State. It had all kinds of low angle lobes on most every Ham Band. Until a bad windstorm demolished it, it was a bad mo fo. I once had a vertical wire dipole up 120 feet hanging vertically from a tree. It was a challenge to keep the feed line from radiating, but it talked good on 40 20 15 and 17 meters. I even used it up on 10 meters too. There is a NEW antenna called a TakTenna, basically a end loaded shortened dipole. Seems to be the new buzz lately.

Wow, it is just the OPPOSITE on a folded horn I see ? Adding stuffing makes the speaker boomy, not tighter like a sealed box does when you add stuffing. The back chamber of these has a LOT of dacron in it, and I mean quite a bit. IS it possible SpeakerLab intended these to be tuned by adding/subtracting stuffing ?

I have had Klipschorns in the same corners, bass was not as low, nor as powerful sounding. In theory, what will stuffing do, or not do sonically ?

It is for SpeakerLab SK's, not Klipschorns. I looked in the chamber, and there is a bunch of Dacron Sheets in it. I know from experience adding stuffing to a sealed woofer often tightens up the bass, and too little can sometimes make it muddy. I wonder If possible to tune the bass a bit with the stuffing ? The SpeakerLab SK's almost overwhelm my room with bass.

What is the theory of adding or removing stuffing from the rear woofer chamber in Folded Horns.

Ka7niq here!

I JUST got a pair of SpeakerLab SK's. Mine have the metal horn with Atlas Driver, and a 2 lb magnet T 350 tweeter. AGREE with you on the bass! I sold some Klipschorns over a year ago. These blow them away in imaging, smoothness, and especially bass. No WONDER why PWK hated them so much, LOL IMHO, SpeakerLab does not get much respect for some reason ? Probably because they were way up in Seattle ? Pat Snyder and Dave Grabner were engineers, and Grabner went on to make Bohlender Grabner Ribbons. I really like my pair, here is some pictures of them.

Now Duke, following THAT Logic, anything or any mod you do is not part of the original sound, right ? So why damp your horns, change caps, etc, etc. I probably would not use Kapok as filler in a big speaker since it does not stay put too well. I would probably use sheet fiberglass or Dacron Pads in the CF 4's IF I still had em.

DJK likes the old Forte's, and suggested them to me. Never heard the new Forte's Duke. He also likes the Cornwall 2's, and I am looking for a Local Pair as we speak. Really miss the CF 4's Duke. IMHO it is NOT the horn needing damping, but the box itself. Many "problems" I heard from them I NOW recognize as damping material and back wave related. I THINK, knowing what I know now, that I could have improved them! Voicing a speaker is a VERY time consuming process Duke. One must listen for HOURS on much varied material. Helps to have a CD Changer with 200 Discs, LOL I have "The Brutal 50" Duke, almost 50 different CD'S I know like the back of my hand. VERY few speakers make it past 25 of these CD's before problems show up. Good Lord Duke, I swear these old Polk RT 2000P's with the european crossovers are almost w/o glaring problems! They are very "Old School Voiced".' That is, warm and almost overly rich in the lower midrange, with perhaps a TOUCH of BBC Dip. I have been able to ALMOST listen to ALL 50 CD's w/o leaving the room! They also image pretty well too, and just flat sound like music! Not as revealing as many Klipsch speakers, but musical in their own way. I will never be happy with just ONE speaker, maybe that is why I am still single, LOL

I have both praised Roy Delgado here, and crucified him, yet he took it all in stride. I spoke to the DESIGNER of the L 7 at length by phone, we talked for over an hour Duke! I KNOW what the problems I hear in the L 7 are. Wanna know ? It will COST you, LOL I met PWK as a boy of 15 in Detroit at Cobo Hall at the Detroit Audio Show, almost 40 years ago! PWK and all his guys had BULLSHIT buttons on, scarcely hiding Pauls outspoken contempt for what he saw as BS. Though PWK is no longer with us, I think his spirit lives on in this forum. I am CERTAINLY no PWK, not even close. But I do not like what I see as BS, especially when it is directed unfairly towards me. Over at Audio Circles Duke, there are several "Manufacturers Forums", or SO I thought ? I have on many occassions witnessed manufacturers invading each others forums with insults, threats, etc, etc, etc, LOL Yet they ban me for a simple return insult to the owner of the board who insulted me first, and never even identified himself as a person of authority either. And, all of this was in a Private Message too. I guess it is OK for manufacturers to publicly invade each others forums, fight publicly, threaten each other publicly, etc ? But Private message return insults are not allowed ? Heck, IF I knew that, I would have had it out with the owner of the board publicly ? Maybe I would still be around, huh ? Back to the L 7 Duke. The lower midrange coloration is NOT coming as it turn out from the 8 inch driver. It is the TOP of the 12 inch woofer the designer thinks I am hearing. The L 7 has a high 180 hz crossover between the 12 and 8 inch drivers a choice made for power handling. He told me to check and be SURE that there was enough fiberglass in the woofer enclosure, and add some to get rid of the coloration. I know what the right way is to damp the enclosures for all the drivers too! I also know HE uses a different tweeter !' Yep, the tweeter in the L7 is flawed, a new one was developed, but never made it into production. He told me he will contact his old friends at JBL, and see if he can find me a pair! I know more then anyone else about L 7 Duke, except the designer himself. There was gonna be an electronic crossovered version too, it never made it to production either! Right now, believe it or not, I am playing with some old POLK Audio RT 2000P's I picked up used cheap. One had what I THOUGHT was a blown tweeter. It turned out to be a blown crossover. I called Polk, and they ONLY had the EUROPEAN version of the crossover in stock. I asked what the difference was, and was informed it would be more "European Sounding". That is, smoother, and more mellow. So, I ordered a pair of european crossovers, slapped em in, and have been listening all night. VERY MUSICAL Duke, had me tappin my toes watching Tampa Beat New England in exhibition football. I thijnk I am gonna try and find some Cornwall 2's Duke, as DJK suggested ? He was right on IMHO in his suggestion of the original Forte's. i liked those, just too small LOOKING for my room. WISH I had the CF 4's back too Duke. I KNOW now that I might have fixed the problems I heard in them with damping ..... So much to learn Duke, so little time left ... We are all getting OLD

Edited post by KA7niq

\Edited by Ka7niq

I did not get banned for my Avatar. I have used that Avatar for over a year. No one complained but this John K guy. I later found out he is the OWNER of the board. I THOUGHT I was on the VMPS Forum. It says "VMPS Forum - John Casler and Brian Cheyney Moderators" No where does it say JohnK Moderator. Imagine if you will some NON Klipsch person coming on the Klipsch forum, sending you a PM atacking your Avatar ? And never identifying himself as the Boss, LOL Ya THINK you might tell him to 'get a life' ? I THOUGHT that VMPS was in charge of their own ship. Evidently, that is not the case ! If I were VMPS, I would be raising holy hell that one of my customers and frequent posters was kicked off MY forum for simply telling what he thought was a Flamer off in a Private Message. I do not understand the arrangement manufacturers have with Audio Circles. But, to me, it is like me renting a home, and having the freaking landlord come in MY house, and kicking out my guests.

Yeah, it ain't worth it, you are right.

Like I said, I just went because I own a pair of older VMPS RM 40's. VMPS owners are tweakers like Klipsch guys, sort of. ALL of my 'sins' were in a PM discussion between what I THOUGHT was just an audiophile flaming me. There was no way to identify the guy as a moderator. I even asked him IF he was, and if not to 'get a life' ALL in a PM too. Heck, I have basically told Roy Delgado off here and NOT got banned, LOL Maybe that is why Klipsch commands respect, because they ALLOW other viewpoints. You are right, I will not miss Audio Circles, and I do plan to write every manufacturer with a circle on there and Boycott them. Maybe this unidentified moderator will get the message then ?

I just got banned from there. No big deal, I only went there for the VMPS forum anyway. My "sin" was because I cut and pasted info from a US Patent in a thread I started on the VMPS Forum about Kapok Damping material for the VMPS RM 40's. I got a PM from some JohnR or JohnK guy out of Australia, never identifying himself as a moderator, telling me he did not like my Avatar, and it was "against rules" to cut and paste information from another web site on Audio Circles. I asked the guy IF he were a moderator, and IF he wasn't "to get a life". Next thing I knew, I was banned, LOL