Flevoman
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Posts posted by Flevoman
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There is only a Chorus 1 and 2, both great speakers by the way but no longer for sale.
I think you ment to say Cornwall 4
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So, you want to buy a Klipsch speaker, but you can't listen to them, and based on our input, you make your choice blindly with the speaker selection? Bold move. Perhaps it's a better idea to provide a list of your preferences so that you can receive more targeted advice. Still, with so many members, there are numerous opinions. Factors influencing the speaker choice could include:
- Use for music only or also for movies
- Preferred genre of music
- Amplifier choice and whether considering alternative amplifiers
- Size of the room they will be placed in
- Emphasis on bass, a strong live experience, analytical sound, etc.
- Budget
- is visual aesthetics playing a significant role?-
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In my opinion, the choice between RF7 and Heresy is somewhat odd. A more logical counterpart for the RF7, in my opinion, would be the Forte instead of the Heresy.
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Are the thoughts of upgrading to the Heritage Jubilee already starting to grow perhaps ??? 😉
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No problem, Tom, and I also don't fully understand why you take it so personal. My suggestion to not dwell on this and continue with our hobby and passion (music/Klipsch) was meant positively. It wasn't directed at you specifically, and certainly not intended to initiate a new discussion.
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Feel free to do as you wish, Tom. If you believe it's important to continue, be my guest, even if it leads to another 5 pages on this. However, I fail to see the purpose of it. I agree that misconduct should be addressed, and it seems to me it have been adequately done.
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Let's move on; there's no need to make this bigger than it is. We all share the same passion for music and Klipsch. Please let this be the subject.
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23 minutes ago, Invidiosulus said:
Id be curious to know what the EQ curves applied by the dspeaker device actually looked like.
Roys recommended PEQ with a Q:8 is very narrow centered on 148hz.
The red line is without correction, black line is with.
@KT88 to be honest, Roys settings was not doing much for my situation.
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I started this topic because, despite how fantastic I found the AL5 to sound, I often heard a disturbing resonance in songs. When listening to the same songs on my headphones or other speakers, this resonance wasn't present. I could not determine the cause of what I was hearing. Recording? Acoustics? Or perhaps the resonance often mentioned in relation to the LaScala? .
Thanks to all the information obtained on this forum, assistance from @mikebse2a3, and extensive reading on Google, I now have a reasonably clear understanding of what's going on. I finally know that what I hear is a bump in the 100Hz-160Hz range.
The pronounced audibility of this bump is, in my situation at least, a combination of factors.
- First and foremost, recording plays a role. Some songs are recorded with a certain dynamic that enhances the effect.
- In my case, room acoustics also play a definite role. I remember, at the beginning of this journey, placing the speakers lengthwise in the room. It didn't eliminate the issue, but it reduced it. However, placing my setup this way is not an option.- The Amplifier Choice.
Currently, I have five different amplifiers, and the choice of amplifier definitely influences the extent to which this bump can be accentuated. I own a beautiful 300B SET amplifier, but its warm character amplifies this range even more. At the moment, I find the Melody 2A3 PP and the 45 SET to sound most pleasing because they produce a cleaner sound, minimizing the amplification of the bump. (edited :I forgot to mention this one)
- My personal sensitivity to this bump is undeniable. I am convinced that I perceive it more strongly than others. It's an annoying background noise that doesn't align with the open and detailed character the speaker possesses. However, others who have listened to my setup didn't hear what I meant or simply didn't find it bothersome.
- The speaker itself, I am convinced that the LaScala accentuates this range. Whether it's due to cabinet resonance or horn properties, I'm not sure. But the LaScala emphasizes the range around 100Hz-160Hz. I am convinced of this because there is ample information, including tests with LaScala, consistently showing a bump around 150Hz. Additionally, I conducted an acoustic measurement with DSpeaker, and comparing it with other measurements reveals a consistently similar curve around 100Hz-160Hz.Thanks to a tip from Mike, I bought a DSpeaker to address acoustic issues. It's not exactly an audiophile device, but it works. When the bump in that range is corrected by DSpeaker, the sound I found so bothersome is indeed gone. I am pleased with this because now I know exactly what it is, where it is, and I have control over it. So you might think, let DSpeaker do its job, and I have nothing to complain about. Well, not entirely.
With this fantastic correction, the speaker's character has also changed significantly. The sound is much cleaner; I can better follow the low end and hear more detail. When switching between correction on and off, the difference is significant. Only when the bump is truly gone do you realize how much coloration it adds to the music. However, I miss the punch and kick. The sax lacks body, and the same goes for the vocals—they sound thinner. Where has that typical LaScala sound gone?
Interestingly, my own conclusion is that the LaScala's sound character seems to derive in part from the bump. Eliminating it also eliminates that characteristic LaScala sound that I appreciate. Apparently, as the LaScala accentuates this range, it becomes more critical. If, due to acoustics, this range is also emphasized a bit too much, it becomes overwhelming for me, and I can hear an annoying thickening in some songs.
For me, the solution will not be to use the room corrector because it eliminates too much for my taste. Instead, I need to find a way to lower that range by a few dB. Just enough to no longer perceive it as bothersome but still preserving enough to let the LaScala be the LaScala. In theory, this can also be done with the DSpeaker, but this device doesn't come across as very audiophile. It pains me to permanently incorporate it into my setup.
Anyway, this weekend I will conduct an A/B test with my girlfriend, and if there is truly no downgrade in the music for me, well... no matter how much trouble I have with this device, it does its job well, so I'll keep it in the setup for now 😉
May I thank everyone who has brainstormed with me and provided input. I am genuinely happy that I now have a clear understanding of what I hear, can articulate it, and know what to do about it. And to avoid giving the wrong impression, I think the AL5 speakers are fantastic. I listen to them every day for several hours and genuinely enjoy them.
Melvin
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50 minutes ago, KT88 said:
First of all, welcome to the forum, Don. Thank you for asking. I think your topic is worth opening its own thread in this section. You would get more resonance😀. I can't speak for everyone, it's just my opinion. Here in the jungle of all these last pages of posts your concern will be completely lost, it would be the thread drift of a thread drift. Nobody will find anything here that you could open in your new thread.
This thread was actually mainly about how an AL5 owner @Flevoman deals with the phenomenon of resonances in his particular case. I'm actually looking forward to hearing what else he has to say about it and whether his girlfriend likes his DSPeaker gear. But maybe he'll open a new thread as well...
I did indeed open this topic with the question of whether the AL-5 perhaps has resonance, causing annoying background noises in the music. Thanks to a lot of information and help, I now finally know at least what I hear (a thickening in the 100Hz-160Hz range). I have been able to form my own view on the reason for this, and I want to provide a more well-founded explanation here this weekend. Now it's up to me to decide what I want to do about it and how.🙄
Regarding the DSpeaker, I will test it further tomorrow with my girlfriend, but if there is interest, I'm willing to open a topic sharing my findings on the DSpeaker. If so, let me know
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If my opinion matters here, I don't see anything in your text where you've offended those who appreciate EQ. You clearly advocate for no EQ, stating your opinion without insults. Nothing wrong with that.
Nevertheless, kudos for engaging in self-reflection, @henry4841. I always value your perspective and knowledge; please continue.
Regarding EQ, I'm torn. Intuitively, I want to keep the audio signal as pure as possible, considering EQ as signal pollution. This sentiment isn't based on hard facts or experience; it's just my gut feeling. However, with the DSpeaker, I've witnessed the power of correctly applied EQ values, addressing an unpleasant thickening in the Hertz range for me. A high-quality preamp with EQ and a bypass option could be a solution, offering the best of both worlds.
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Well..the problem here is that I apparently need an EQ to solve my issue around the 100Hz-150Hz area 🙄
Thank you for all the tips and help guys.
Currently, two things are ongoing for me. I'm also experimenting with the DSpeaker, which might solve my Hz bump issue. Depending on the results, a preamp + EQ (room corrector) might be the best solution for me.
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I've experimented a bit (with Mike's help) using the DSpeaker, and while testing the room acoustics, you can clearly see the bump around 100Hz-150Hz. Whether this is partly due to the speaker or entirely the acoustics, I'm not sure, but apparently, this is what I keep hearing in songs and it bothers me.
The difference with acoustic corrections on or off is significant and impressive to me. For example, I came across this song this morning; without correction, it's unbearable for me (yes, partly due to the recording), but with room correction on, I can still hear a kind of vibration in the song, but it seems balanced now.
It's a bit conflicting for me because instinctively, I want to keep the audio signal as pure as possible. The last thing I want is to add an EQ to my system. However, I can't deny that it does what it's supposed to do very well. To test whether it detracts from the music quality, I'll have to wait until my girlfriend is back. Then, she can switch between the A/B input on the amplifier and can i determine if I can hear any difference with the DSpeaker (with correction turned off) or without. If I hear no difference, no loss of audio quality, then it's a keeper.
If I do notice a loss in quality, then I'll have to look for a more audiophile solution because attenuating this specific frequency range really benefits the music.
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On 1/2/2024 at 6:33 AM, Tom80112 said:
What fantastic summary Flevoman. I have 3 questions if you could give your advise..
a. What was the make/model of the initial tube amp you were using that wasn't the best match for the AL-5?
b. What was the make/model of the of the tube amp that allowed you to really connect with the AL-5?
c. My room is 4M wide and 9.5M deep. It's a flat with Kitchen/Dining/Living room all part of a long open room.
From my sitting position to the front wall is 3.45M so the AL-5's depth + distance from the wall would subtract
from 3.45M. I am guessing that leaves 2.4M to 2.6M listening distance depending on how far away from the
front wall the AL-5 needs to be. Would AL-5 work in this sized room or would CW4 be a better match for the
room size ?
Thanks for sharing your insights for the AL-5 vs CW4. At the start of the post it seemed like the CW4 had the win.
Sorry, I just noticed your questions. I probably overlooked the notification 🙄
But to answer your questions:
- Due to some acoustic issues causing a thickening around 100Hz-150Hz, the amp that is less warm in character works best for me. In my setup, I find my Melody 2A3 PP or my 45 SET to sound the most pleasing.
- See the above answer.
- Answering this question is quite challenging. I think no one can predict the acoustics of your living room. The CW4 could sound a bit boomy due to my acoustics, and the AL-5 has a kind of thickening around the 150Hz area for me. If I had to make a choice, I expect the AL-5 to pose fewer problems, but perhaps other members can provide a better answer than I can. -
Thank you for your tip and explanation. Honestly, what you're describing appeals to me the most. A way to attenuate my signal (apparently, amplifying the signal isn't necessary with these sensitive speakers) but in a more audiophile manner than what I'm currently doing, using the volume control on the Cambridge.
Is what you're describing the same as a passive preamplifier? And if so, would essentially any passive preamplifier work well in my system?
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@Shakeydeal he just arrived this morning 😁
So now I have to study the manual what to do with it.
It is the DSpeaker anti-mode 2.0 dual core by the way.
The device doesn't really feel as audiophile; do you notice any adverse effects in the sound due to adding this device? (considering the idea of introducing more obstacles in the audio path)
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3 hours ago, Von Hoellert said:
Flevoman wrote in the beginning that the 4 is not much better but a bit different as the 3.
I think I mentioned this right at the very beginning. However, my CW4 was new and needed some breaking in. I recall that initially, the CW4 didn't have much bass in the beginning. On the other hand, the CW3 sometimes had too much bass in my space. What I've learned over time is that I (and maybe others) need some time to get accustomed to significant changes in sound before passing judgment.
This also played a role in my initial experience with CW3 vs CW4. It took me some time to apriciate the CW4 better. Is the CW4 better speaker ? Yes, in my opinion absolutely. Night and day difference? In my perception, not really. Is the price difference worth it? If the financial aspect isn't a problem for you and you're aiming for more or better, then yes, it would be worth it to me. But even with the CW3, I've had many evenings enjoying the music breathlessly.
And I use Marktplaats for my search, like the link I posted 1 reply before.
I sold my CW4 for 5500,- and the one on Marktplaats was also 5500,-
The CW3 goes around between the 2.5k and 3k on Marktplaats
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1 hour ago, KT88 said:
If you are looking for an older variant, then I would definitely not rule out the CW1.
@Von Hoellert if the CW1 is an option for you, there is one for sale atm.
Klipsch cornwall
€ 1.150,00
https://link.marktplaats.nl/m2065868604?utm_source=android_social&utm_content=vip&utm_medium=android_social&utm_campaign=socialbuttons -
12 hours ago, Shakeydeal said:
Question. Did you have the CW4 and the AL5 in the exact same location? And I don’t mean near each other, but exactly. If not, you may be hearing a room node exacerbated by the position of the LaScala. If so, try the Cornwalls in that location. And make sure your location is the same every time.Yes, when I tested the CW4, I placed it in exactly the same spot as the AL-5 with precisely the same positioning.
27 minutes ago, Islander said:You might be able to correct that 'thickening' sensation with some judiciously applied EQ, assuming you can get an equalizer with very clean sound that won't throw a veil over the whole listening range like my 1980s equalizer did. The Electro-Voice Dx38 24-bit audio processor that was used in the development of the UG Jubilee and the JubScala does not have this issue.
Thanks for this tip. And quite coincidentally, this is also going to happen. Mike gave me this tip a little earlier, and he has had positive experiences with it. Consequently, I've ordered a DSpeaker on Marktplaats, which is now on its way. I'm curious to see if this will indeed provide an improvement.
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@grindstone What a nice piece of information, thanks for that. While I don't have any intention to sell it, could you perhaps give me an estimate of the current value of this amplifier?
Indeed, it has a 6N1P tube. Unfortunately, I don't grasp all the information equally well, but that's definitely not your fault; it's my lack of knowledge on this subject. I understand it's quite an old amplifier; would it be necessary to replace certain parts to make it perform at its best again, or should I leave it as it is?
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1 hour ago, 83 LSIs said:
It has been sitting unused for years?
I would have to plug it in and play something through it for a while (not necessarily even listening to it) before I could make a judgement. Not saying it will make a difference, but just what I would do
Yes it has been sitting unused for more than 20 years I think.
But I have used it for some time and there is no difference. But thank you for this advise
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Phew... now you're asking me for an answer that I'll base on who I am, my financial situation, and the fact that I listen to my music for several hours daily. Rationally, I can't in any way assign a value to the difference between the CW3 and CW4. For me (having a slightly more generous budget and always aiming for better), the additional cost for the CW4 was worth it. But this answer is 85% leaning on emotional thinking. You could buy a small used car for almost 6k. Looking at it rationally, no... that's a bit absurd.
However, in this hobby, you unfortunately have to adjust your wishes a bit with rational thinking. It's a pity you mention this now. Two weeks ago, there were a few CW4 for sale in the Netherlands at a great price. And in such cases, I would say, yes... go for it. Because at that point, you won't likely lose much if you decide to sell them.
I'm afraid my answer won't be much help. Sorry. But I hope, based on the experiences shared here, you can make a decision.
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I recognize your position. There is so much information to be found on the internet, but very little when it comes to CW3 vs CW4. Try La Scala vs AL-5; there's almost nothing to be found there either.
But, you ask why I went from CW3 to CW4? For the same reason I went from Heresy 2 to Chorus, then to CW3, CW4, and now to AL-5. Each speaker sounded good and brought me a lot of joy. However, the desire for just a bit better always lingered.
So, the reason was never dissatisfaction, but always the drive for something slightly better, wanting to be more engaged with the music. And honestly, it's only now with the AL-5 that I've truly found what I was looking for – the feeling of live / realness .
But even now, the itch begins again...
"Would the Jubilee fit in my room???"
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16 minutes ago, CWelsh said:
Beautiful! I love the minimalist look. Reminds me of @henry4841's Little Sweetie projects
It's not just the exterior that is minimalist; the construction is also very simple.
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Vintage La Scala distortion
in 2-Channel Home Audio
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@GabeS read my post about my experience with the distortion / lascala. Maybe you have the same problem like me.
It is highly likely that you hear a thickening around the 100Hz-170Hz range. An issue where one claims it is inherent to the La Scala, and another insists it stems from other factors but definitely not the La Scala. Personally, I believe both play a role. Partly, it's the La Scala's nature to accentuate this range, and partly, it's influenced by factors like room acoustics (in my case, at least). I'm still figuring out how to address this. For instance, I've rotated my living room 90 degrees, positioning the speakers lengthwise, which seems to partially alleviate the issue but not entirely. The remaining part, with this setup, appears even more pronounced with this setup. The challenge is that once you become bothered by this resonance/thickening (or whatever you want to call it), you start hearing it more clearly over time. It's tricky; I genuinely love the speakers, but this is becoming quite bothersome. I'm curious if you recognize your issue in what I describe in my topic.