Cut-Throat

RB, Thanks for the offer of the manual and Instructions for the Moondogs. - I need them Bad! I would appreciate it. Erik is a peach of a guy. -It's definitely not because of Texas.:bigsmile:] Erik, Thanks for all your help. Your instructions are impeccable and better than I've received on any kit I've ever built. I'll finish the mod tomorrow and let you know.

Hi Erik, Thanks for all of your help with these Moondogs. First off, I want to assure you that I have complete confidence in your technical acumen. I followed the Edster thread on his Moondogs and you did an outstanding job. I would like to try to fix these Moondogs myself under your direction. Mainly for a few reasons; 1.) I am deathly afraid of shipping audio components. I always hold my breath. I do not have factory boxes or packing materials for these Moondogs. I have seen the ravages of UPS. 2.) I would like to learn something from you and would also feel better about the Moondogs. A bonding with them so to speak. 3.) I have invested in a few electronic tools in the last few years and the DIY thing. I have a relatively new Xtronic soldering station with digital temp control that is really neat to use as well as Digital Mutli-Meter. 4.) I enjoy putzing with audio equipment. I needed another amp like a hole in the head. But do enjoy messing with them. Your technical skills are not in doubt. Mine Are. Here is where I am technically. 1.) I was an Electronics Technician in the Navy, but slept through most of the classes. I did glean enough info to understand Ohms law and to not kill myself. 2.) I have built - From kits the AE-25 Push Pull Amp. The AE-3 Pre-amp, The 300b Billies, a Couple pairs of speakers and some crossovers such as the Type A. My soldering skills are pretty damn good if I do say so myself. 3.) I do not have any Schematics or Parts Layout of the Moondogs. But I am able to take Voltage, Resistance measurements with a DMM. Something like Measure the Voltage between pin 4 on Tube A2 to Ground. So if you wouldnt mine walking me through some of these Mods (with some potentially very dumb questions) I would very much enjoy this. This would be even a bigger challenge for you Erik. Kind of like talking down an aircraft with someone else at the controls. I can supply you with very detailed digital photos as I have a good digital camera with macro capability. I will take some photos today and e-mail them to you of the area that you requested. Let me know if you need any other close-ups. Thanks a Bunch!

Erik, OK - here is a Picture of one of my Moondogs Undersides. If you need a more detailed view just ask me.

Erik, You have given me a weeks worth of work! - Thanks for the suggestions! -- Yes I believe the Billies do have DC on the Filaments and they do have the Bridge rectifier. And it was me - Yes the Billies are a quieter amp (Not surprised as they were reviewed as being the quietest 300b) I have plugged in some RCA 5692 Red Base in them and the noise level is the same. Actually if I am listening to music at any volume level the hiss and Hum is not noticible. I may fool around with the ground tomorrow just for the hell of it. These Moondogs have the Ultimate Parts upgrade and I have got to say that the tube sockets (which are the high buck ones are the loosest sockets that I have ever seen. Some of my other amps the tubes are so tight you have to grunt to get them out. These sockets are so loose that the weight of the tube itself is almost enough to seat them. I may try to tighten the pins a bit. There may be nothing amiss at all, I am just making sure. Thanks for all of your suggestions. I may sit on a few of them, as I don't want to modify this amp too soon.

Well I returned from my Montana Fishing trip last night and finally had a chance to fool around with my Moondogs. Thanks for the various suggestions. - I did unhook the pre-amp from the Dogs and with the Volume all of the way down on the pre-amp the hiss was noticeable only by putting your ear up to the tweeter. With the pre-amp connected and the volume turned to about 9 O'Clock there is a slight hum coming from the woofers (with no music playing). There is also a slight hiss coming from the tweeters. With no music playing and the Volume turned to about 12-1 O'Clock the Hiss and Hum is audible from across the room. At normal listening levels with music playing the hiss and hum is not noticible at all. I just would like to know if my level of hiss and hum is normal. Someone suggested to me in an e-mail that this noise is tube-related 99% of the time. Anyone have this experience?

Hi Erik and Randy, It is not a Ground Loop problem, I have had and solved those before. It does have a hum pot and I have adjusted this for minimum hum. It is only noticeable when music has stopped. It's not that bad, but it is worse than my Billies. But, obviously I want the hiss to be as little as possible. It is in both channels, exactly the same hiss level. Yes Erik, I have worked on tube amps before so I well aware of caps and their ability to store voltages. I always measure with my Multimeter before touching anything. My Interconnects are fine. My pre-amp does have some gain, so it would exacerbate the hiss problem, but I'm sure it's not causing it. I know I have read a number of posts here, where Moondog owners were trying to tame their hiss.

OK, my Moondogs arrived and they are beautiful. Very nice Burled Walnut Frames! I only got to listen for them for 10 minutes, (and then I had to go on a fishing trip - someone has got to do it!) But when listening and the music stopped, I noticed a hiss, hum on my 104db Belles. Much more noticable than my 300b Billies (which is supposed to be a very quiet SET amp. ) Hum Pot was adjusted for minimium hum, but it was still noticible. Anyone done anything - mods, tubes, etc. to quiet these dogs down a bit? Thanks.

Frzninvt, ***************************************************************** If anything open the bottom hatch and tighten all the screws inside and tighten the ones on the woofer as well. Otherwise it is best left alone. If dampening would have further improved performance I think PWK would have already done it. ***************************************************************** Well, since I just completely refinished my Belles, I replaced all of the Wiring and all of the screws and made sure they were all very tight when I put them back together. As far as PWK already have done it - Doesn't this fly in the face of Tweaking?

Excellent job on the Instructions! But, you did not mention the observing of the polarity of the leads of the diaphram. One is postive and the other Neg. They could be reversed and the tweeter would be out of phase. Are you sure you checked this? I took mine apart also and decided to let simply speakers, do it, test it and make sure the polarity was correct for a few exta bucks.

TBrennan, Well I certainly was not talking about stuffing either the Mid or Tweeter Horns, I was just asking if someone damped the chamber of the bass bin. I guess it would change the performance of the Bass! I was just wondering if someone had tried it, and if the change was for the better. It certainly improves the performance of a conventional speaker. And I'm guessing if that you have not tried it, you would not know.

I have built a number of conventional speakers and have used a product called Black Hole 5 to dampen the inside of the cabinet. There is usally some dampening material inside all of the cabinets of Conventional Speakers. I was wondering if anyone has ever tried any dampening in the Bass Bin of Klispch Speakers. If so how did it change the sound if at all. It would be fairly expensive to line the entire Bass Bin of my Klipsch Belles with Black Hole 5 - So I'm not going to experiment here.

Moon, April 1 has past! -- You must be a bonafied luna-tic Are you serious??

I have respect for Ron, but I don't entirely agree with the practice of using any 2A3 run at voltages beyond established operating parameters. They would be fine for a time, but likely wouldn't last as long as they would otherwise. When I asked him about this, he said he thought specs in tube manuals are over-rated. I don't agree with that philosophy, but don't say that I am right and he is wrong. I know for a fact that some who have done this modification have ended up with noticeably more power and higher volume ability, but with a companion increase in background noise. To me, that tradeoff is not worth-while. ****************************************************************** Erik, Were Edster's amps and yours both running the same Voltage on the Tubes? - If not, could this explain some of the difference you were hearing?

Garymd, I love the look of your Cornwalls!! Origial Zebrawood from Klipsch? I just picked up some Zebrawood to make some Vintage Oil Type A Crossovers. - And the moth - very Cool indeed. What part of the country do you live in. I've never seen a moth like that in Minnesota.

Mike, Thanks,I have had my eye open for a while for a pair of Moondogs. Great price on the 5692's! - How come so cheap? - I'm assuming that he won't sell me a pair at that price? Erik, I have been researching this mod because I only plan on 3.25 watts and if the mod has been done, I'll undo it. All you need is to bypass the resistor. If it's there it's putting out about 3.25 watts. If the resistor is gone it will put out about 4.5 watts. Here is what I got from Ron Welborne this Morning at the Welborne Forum. *************************************************************** The resistor that goes across the PS cap (Cerafine or BlackGate) is the one that makes the difference; if it's in place the amp is set to run with standard 2A3's. Without the resistor the B+ is raised approximately 40V which is enough to squeeze another watt from the amp. The resistor is a Mills 1K 12W non-inductive wirewound. Any 2A3 can be used with the resistor in place. Removing the resistor allows for higher power from KRs, Sovteks, TJs and other higher power 2A3s. Ron W. *****************************************************************

ALK, Which transformer do you prefer the UTC 3619 or the T2A?

Thanks guys! - Yes I feel lucky to have picked these up. Jazman, My system is starting to look like yours now. Belles and Moondogs. Have you tried the TJ Meshplate 2A3's? I have the 300b's and they are very good! Erik, Leok, Jazman, Sprocket As far as the KR2A3 tube, The way I read the details on this tube is that you can run it either way. For either the 3.25 watts or 4.5 on the moondogs. It will just last a lot longer at 3.25 watts. The seller did say in his add that the KR tubes would probably outlast me. That is the way I also read the Welborne Statement on this tube with the Moondogs. Am I correct here? Randy, You will get to hear both amps! - I'll send you an e-mail of my upcoming schedule.

Edster, Yup, I already asked the seller if he knew if they had been modded for the 4.5 watts instead of the stock 3.25. He did not know as he was the second owner. Do you happen to know how to tell if they have the Mod? - Visually would be nice, although I could take Voltage measurements.

"From the time we fixed the one blown tweeter". ************************************************************ That is what I thought you meant originally. - So I'll ask my question again. How did you and your neighbor fix the "blown" tweeter?

OK - I had to chime in here, because I just (This afternoon) bagged a pair of Moondogs with the Ultimate parts upgrade. They even have Wenge wood Chassis like the 'Final Dog'.? The Ultimate upgrade includes the Black Gate Caps, The upgraded tube Sockets, Mullard recifiers. Did I leave anything out? Mine also has the KR 2A3 tubes. Yes I will be doing tube rolling and performing minor surgury as wanted. Any suggestions?

Duplicate.

'Oh no... The existing tweeters work working. Well, let me back up. When the belles came, one of the tweeters was not working. A neighbor and I fixed it and it seemed to work. However, because it had been blown I decided to just order two new diaphrams and replace them both. ' ************************************************************** OK - Now I'm confused! You just described how you changed the diaphram. So the tweeter was blown and you fixed it and still cannot hear a difference! If it was blown and you changed the diaphram and cannot hear a difference, you did not do it correctly or it was not blown in the first place. And yes - I have done this taken it apart and everything. I just let simply speakers do it because they warrenteed their work. And they only charged me $70 for parts and labor not hundreds.

Moon, OK - Understand. I would have guessed that you would not have heard a difference. When you say the tweeter was 'blown' - How did you fix a 'blown' tweeter? - Just curious.

Moon, If you're diaphrams were toast and you installed new ones and cannot hear the difference. Well, I think you may not have done it right. The difference should be night and day! I had mine done for me by simply speakers. Are you sure that you did not damage them or the fine wires getting them soldered?

Nice work Dale ! I took a similar approach and used Cardas Posts on the Crossover Board itself