Invidiosulus
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Posts posted by Invidiosulus
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This is a basic simulation of the LS bass horn in Hornresp.
The K33 is in light gray and I’ve plotted the exact same horn in black but substituted the driver specs for those of the Eminence Kappa 15C.
as you can see, both drivers show a peak in the 150Hz region with the 15C showing less of a drop in output.
You will also note that the 15C gives up a little on the low end to the K33.
Even if the sidewalls aren’t resonating(much) there is still going to be that peak in the response which will really honk if given the right(wrong) source material.
This peak in the 150Hz region is well documented, and even showed up in the response curves from the stereophile review of the AL-5.
Before anybody has a chance to try to pretend that I’m making this up, and that the stereophile measurements aren’t valid(I’m looking at you @OO1 ), I would like to remind you that Roy himself posted the following EQ settings for use with the LS bass section when using an active DSP crossover.87hz, Q:3.5, +5dB
148Hz, Q:8, -7dB
380Hz, Q:5.5, +2dBI think it’s hard to realize what you are missing until you have a chance to hear the LS bass without that peak.
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39 minutes ago, Marvel said:
Eminence has some of their drivers made in China.
I’ve heard that somewhere.
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Dec 28, 2005
I ran into town with my younger brother Zachary to try to find some things at the store.
Gifts that I hadn't quite had time to purchase before Christmas rolled around due to how busy things were at the house with Mom being sick.
The store was closed anyway so I'd have to wait until after new years.
My cell phone rang, an indestructible Kyocera that I'd gotten a a year and a half earlier when the old Motorola had died while everyone was out west for A.G.'s graduation.
It was the home number but when I picked up it was my uncle George, " I'm sorry son, She's gone."
I told him we'd be there in a little while and hung up.
Zachary and I said a word or two and then drove the rest of the way home in near silence.Earlier in the week Zachary and I had been at the house when Mom woke up from one of her many naps.
She wasn't feeling well started yelling and trying to remove her catheter.
We went in and helped her sit up on the edge of the bed and I put my arms around her in a big hug and tried to hold her still.
Because of the tumors that had been growing in her brain it had been some time since she was able to form coherent sentences.
She babbled some gibberish for a few minutes before seeming to calm down.
I gave her a squeeze and she looked up at me and Zachary and as clear as ever said "I want you to know that I love you. I always will love you."
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I normally make some roast duck for Christmas dinner.
We had cracked open a ham on Christmas Eve so I didn’t end up making the duck until yesterday.
Brined in a pineapple-orange juice and fresh Thyme mixture and then steamed before a high temp sear in a cast iron skillet in the oven.
Shallots and Chard were then cooked in a balsamic glaze made from the pan drippings.
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14 minutes ago, Dave1291 said:
Welllllll, I had both of my daughters here today and they said everything is fine w/the fridge and to not worry about it. 😂 Thing's running 24/7 so I'll start nosin tomorrow. No ice and the freezer contents are now in the chest freezer in the garage "just in case." 😂 Suppiosed to drop this week into the 30'si so no hurry. This teachin of the youngin's is funny. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt AND the bumper sticker but I'll listen. hahaha
It’s kinda funny, almost every time I tell @Marvel about some annoying/goofy things the kids are doing, he just kinda laughs and says it sounds familiar.
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Making some sawdust.
It’s not a Cornwall.
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My buddy DJ’d a dance party at our local spot Saturday night.
We had a good time but we were out way too late.
yesterday afternoon I stopped by my other friends wood shop and we started putting a dent in a bottle of Angel’s Envy that our pastor gave him as a way of saying thanks for making coffee after church each Sunday.
It’s pretty good stuff.This morning we got up and went to the Christmas mass and then came home and opened presents.
the kids and I are adding to the ever growing fleet of Star Wars LEGO ships.
Merry Christmas everyone!
I hope your day is enjoyable and full of peace.
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My oldest turned 15 today and requested some pasta for his birthday dinner.
Bucatini Carbonara to be specific.
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13 minutes ago, OO1 said:
the fact that the AL-5 is heavy does not preclude that the testing and measurement methods are not to be compromised , the Author should have used a stand as a strict minimum , or the results are flawed
" couldn't lift the La Scala off the floor onto a stand " now that's just too bad , either you do it right or your published results are inaccurate and worthless , because had the Author used a stand , the results would have been very different .
So you are saying that the AL5 needs a stand to not resonate?
Or are you saying that it needs a stand to have the correct frequency response?
What exactly do you propose would have been different if the AL5 had been on a stand.
I think the measurements do a good job of showing what one can expect when listening in a real room.
The review and the comments with the measurements are generally favorable.
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38 minutes ago, OO1 said:
the Stereophile review is full of errors
https://www.stereophile.com/content/klipsch-la-scala-al5-loudspeaker-measurements
and I quote
" I found three fairly strong resonant modes on the sides of the bass bin (fig.2). The highest was at 125Hz.
Usually when I measure a loudspeaker's farfield behavior, I raise it as far as possible off the ground.
Fig.5 Klipsch La Scala,
Note that I didn't connect the woofer for this measurement, as its output was corrupted by the reflections from the floor "Stereophile were taking critical measurements of the Lascala in a not-so-perfect environment for such measurements, all the tests and measurements are therefore flawed , the Lascala cabinet should have been stabilized firmly to the surface of the floor before any measurements could be done , otherwise the results are simply not accurate or representative of the speaker's true resonance results .
I’m sorry that you have a problem with reading comprehension.
The author states that they left the AL5 on the floor because it was so heavy.
The measurement with the woofer disconnected was a a standard frequency response measurement and the author is acknowledging that the floor reflections were not allowing him to get an accurate picture of the response of the speaker which is why he only included the midrange and tweeter on that graph.
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32 minutes ago, billybob said:
I take this as the original LaScala model review?
Thanks!
The AL5.
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From the review in Stereophile.-
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8 minutes ago, Flevoman said:
I have no idea what you are talking about, sorry 😄
REW, sig, gen...what does these words mean?
REW is Room EQ Wizard, a free software that can be used to help tune an audio system.
It has a signal generator function that allows you to output sine waves(or white/pink noise etc) to pinpoint certain issues.
If used with a calibrated microphone such as the usb style UMIK, the software can be used to run frequency sweeps and give you measured results of frequency, group delay, etc.
All things that can be really handy.
I believe some of the group delay and waterfall style frequency/time plots would be helpful for actually measuring resonance vs input signal.
But, you really need a calibrated mic to take advantage of it.
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It’s getting a little chilly out here.
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4 hours ago, KT88 said:
I will see if it will work with the braces even when the side walls are thinner than intended as the only measure, anyway, thanks for sharing your positive experience..
Typically when a material decreases in thickness the amplitude of the resonance will increase and the Q of the resonance will decrease.
So not only will the resonance be louder on the thinner piece, it will be resonating across a broader frequency.
I measured this on the backs of my H1 with a small piezo transducer mounted directly on the wood while running frequency sweeps in REW.
Increasing the thickness will reduce the amplitude but the peaks will still be in the same place although narrower.
All of which is to say, I would imagine the AL5 sidewalls would resonate at around the same center frequency as the older models since the sidewalls are approximately the same size.
But since they are thicker they should resonate less and over a narrower range.
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1 hour ago, OO1 said:
total BS there were no serious issues with resonance from the LS cabs , resonance was a tad noticeable with the 200W Lascala Industrial speakers when they were pushed hard and klipsch resolved the issue by beefing up the LSI cabs in the early 80's , I own the LSI .
more BS there was no problems either with the 1/2 inch Heresy 1 or Cornwall 1 rear panels or there would have been thousands of threads on the subject over the years , I also own the Heresy- Cornwall with 0 problems .
That’s really funny.
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3 hours ago, KT88 said:
I was very happy with the sound of my vintage LS before they were sanded down on the outer side walls. So i see no reason why the panels of the doghouse and the bottom and top need to be reinforced. i'm only concerned with the sidewalls. if the braces don't do any good i'll reinforce the sidewalls with additional thin multiplex panels.
Randy is full of misinformation.
The top and bottom of the LS
bass bin are adequately braced.
It is only the large side panels that are an issue on the LS 1.
Just like the 1/2” thick back panel on a Heresy 1, the side panels on an LS 1 will muddy the upper bass from its vibration if played at a louder volume.
my LS cabs were stock thickness 3/4” and the braces provided a noticeable difference in clarity.Would I have gotten similar results from increasing the thickness of the sidewall?
Perhaps, but the braces were a cheap and easy install compared to increasing the sidewall thickness.
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1 minute ago, OO1 said:
in an LS bass bin , thicker panels must be all around including the panels of the dog house in order to tame the resonance from the top-bottom + the sides +the dog house , 2 horizontal braces cant replace all these panels without causing unwanted reflections .
Do you have formation on the reflections and specifically what they caused?
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59 minutes ago, OO1 said:
the picture above was taken when PWK was experimenting with the 200 wpc LSI speakers , the problem was that the LSI series used regular LS home cabinets , while the LS cabinet was not originally designed to handle 2x the power rating in a commercial setting .
-the picture also has nothing to do with the 100 wpc LS for home use which did not resonate at the 50% lower power rating , while experimenting with braces PWK found out that add-on braces caused unwanted reflections in the LS1 bass bin , for that reason , PWK never approved the use of braces in an LS1 or LSI bass bin
- instead , effective early 80's , a new LSI cabinet was released with beefed up panels to increase the performance of the LSI bass bin , these advances eventually trickled over to the new LS II series with 1 inch MDF .
here is an early 80's LSI cabinet with thicker plywood featuring rounded corners and rounded openings for the mids and tweeter horns
I mean, the non expanding section of the horn in the LS design causes unwanted results in frequency response, yet here we are decades later still using that design.
It takes far less than 100 watts to excite the side walls in the original LS.
Of course the industrial models and the AL5 are going to resonate less, that’s just the way physics works.
The 1/2” back panel in the H1 is the same way. Bracing it or replacing it with a thicker panel improves the sound.
the newer models don’t have the same issue.
The original models were good but engineering and cost decisions were made that leave things less than perfect.
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6 hours ago, Flevoman said:
Thank you Mike. As often, your assistance is thorough but also very technical 😉. Unfortunately, I still lack the technical insight to fully understand everything. However, I understand your explanation that the resonance I hear may not be from the speaker but due to its placement.
I've already tried moving the speakers around, and it hasn't had much impact on the resonance I hear. But next week, during my three-week vacation, I will experiment by placing the speakers lengthwise to see what effect it will have.
Thank you for pointing this out.
Sorry, I can't tell if this is a dig or a well-intentioned wink. With my comment about the La Scala 1 being known for its resonance, I meant nothing negative, in any case.
I might have said “known to resonate” instead of “known for its resonance”.
Can you feel the sidewall moving when you are hearing the issue?
On my LS 1 it would become very apparent on some songs and I could feel it with my hand quite easily.
As others have said, clamping some additional bracing in the outside of the cab is a cheap and reversible fix that you can easily test and back out of if you don’t think it helps.
the EQ setting I posted were specified by @Chief bonehead for folks using DSP when mounting the K510(I think) on top of the LS bass bin.
The sharp notch at 148Hz made a world of difference on my LS 1.
If you aren’t going active EQ then just concentrate on the rest of the equation regarding placement and room modes.
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A second pair of Heresy’s makes a nice set of stands.
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Yes, they resonate.
Bracing will help a lot but it won’t tame some of the irregularities in frequency response that are inherent to the LS due to compromises in the horn expansion.
if you have an active DSP setup that is capable of some parametric EQ adjustments, you can try the following settings that are known to ameliorate the response of the stock LS bass bin.
87hz, Q:3.5, +5dB
148Hz, Q:8, -7dB
380Hz, Q:5.5, +2dB-
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