Gordon Groff

Thanks for the feedback guys! I appreciate the comments. I am leaning strongly toward the Denon as I like it's very adjustable sub crossover. Gordon

Thanks, Shoe! Gordon

Well, If you end up in Jerry Hansen's office (I hope not!), ask him what he did last Christmas ('01), then tell him Gordon Groff says "Hi". That should blow his mind! Gordon

"Yeah, Michael! The weather was so pleasant this morning that I got in a swim and some hot tub time before showering off to get ready to finally head for the city." Sould like a tough place to get any work done, HornEd! Since this seems to be an off-topic place, I'd like to ask if you know a Jerry (cardiologist) and Lois Hanson who live at The Cats too. That would be a cool cooincidence if so! Gordon

If so, where the heck do I place that center speaker? Sideway's under my tv? haha. Don't laugh, lancestorm! Wait'l you see HornEd's reply! Gordon Looking for a router.

I am planning a Klipsch HT 7.1 system w/RF-7 mains and Center. Surrounds and rears prolly RC-7 or RB-5II depending on which I can make physically fit. (I dreamed of RF-7's all the way around, but NO WAY). I do not care for the RS-7's. Anyway, I'm looking at either the Onkyo SR800 or Dennon 3803. Anyone have an opinion on what would work better w/the Klipsch's? Gordon

Thank's HornEd, You're right! I saw that photo before. What a cool HT!!! At the time, though, I did not know the relevance of the center or that you had modded it. I'll put "Piano Grande" on my list of DVDs to get.... After I get a DVD player My HT is all on paper at this point. I'm buiding it on paper in prep for THE DAY this spring that I can spring for all the GEAR at ONCE!! That'll be some order!!! I'm glad you're not feeling up to travelling so you can answer all these silly posts! (Not really) Best To You Each Morning Gordon Corn Flaker

Hey HornEd, Thanks for your detailed translation! I know SN appreciated it! I did too. I would never admit I had no idea what "a laptop WiFi'd on the patio" meant . It's a guy thing. Wireless net access? Sounds very cool! Thanks for the discussion of Belles and PWK too. I learned a lot there. Your "Afghan" (Tapestries) comment went over my head too the first time around. You're one convoluted dude, dude! Gordon

redtop said: "In looking at the picture he posted of his setup, he mounted the horn horizontally between the two woofers." A Picture? Hey HornEd, could you post the link to the picture or the thread where it's posted? I've already saved about a thousand of your words, so one good picture would double my dowry! I'm a believer in your center channel mantra and fully intend to do marry an RF-7 that's been HornEdded to my intended HT in a couple months! Thanks! Gordon PS: Feeling better?

The great HornEd wrote: "If your het up on RC-7's... put them in the back of the room as Rear Effects... or on the side as Side/Surrounds..." Hey! Why didn't I think of that!! I was so bummed when I realized the RF-7's would not fit for surrounds & rears, I jumped to RB-5II's. I'm gonna mock up some RC-7's and see if I can fit them in! They look a LOT better than the RB-5II's!! Gordon

Hi Polobroker! You wrote: "just replaced my 1987 JBL 350A's with RF-7's. Not happy at all. My ears are well below professional; so why the obvious difference in both HT and typical CD's? " I'm a newbie to this and lack golden ears too, but when I went to audition various speaker systems, there was a very big and distinct difference between the Klipsch system and the other high and higher-end speakers I auditioned (including $4.5K Sonus Faber's). I strongly preferred the Klipsch for their clarity and detail, which for me made the other's sound almost "muddy". I can understand someone who is used to a JBL set finding the Klipsch's sound to be very different and maybe "too bright" in comparison. These "muddy" vs "bright" descriptions are all realtive and highly subjective to what your ears are expecting to hear. Which are more accurate? I am convinced the Klipsch's are because I listened to a CD that I recorded and produced myself, so I knew the sound intimately. There was one spot where there were distortion artifacts that I knew about, but could not be heard on any other system - so I went ahead and had it pressed in quantity. I heard the defect clearly on the Klipsch system, but not on the others. I guess that's the good news and the bad news. Once you match the Klipsch with a good sub system and your ears adjust, I don't thing you'll want to go back. I am also convinced that a lot of bottom end one hears on some other systems is "enhanced". With a good sub, if you like that particular "enhancement", you can get it back and still have the clarity and detail of the Klipsch on top. Gordon

She did, very much! She leaves the tehnical stuff to me. That's fair, I leave the musical stuff to her(which is a very good thing for all of us)! I hope you're feeling better to get to wherever you have to go! Our thoughts (and prayers if you like) are with 'ya! Gordon 'n Nancy

After a great system set-up description (into my keeper file), HornEd asked: "PS: Whew... do you think I've earned my postage and handling fee yet?" HornEd, You earned that quite a while ago! You're working on the "special bonus disc" now! I appreciate your posts. Don't know how you find the time to hang so strong here! The receiver that I'm probably going to start out with - Denon AVR-3803 - has adjustable crossover @ 40, 60,80,100,or 120 Hz. That's one reason that receiver is so attractive to me since I won't have an outboard crossover to play with. It's got 110w x 7 + sub pre. I've got an old Haffler XL280 (180w/channel) that I'm going to play with to see if it makes a difference on the mains (RF-7's). If it does, I'm also going to dust off a Haffler DH-200 that I might bridge to mono-mode for 200w to center (RF-7 HornEd'ed). We'll see. The 110w on the Denon should be more than enough for the Klipsch stuff in our small room, but I'm a believer in over-amping to get better response even at lower levels. Gordon

The Sweet one is okay with the Ultra w/one condition - that SHE holds the remote! I'll just have to check it's reference levels when she's not home! Gordon Tends to get carried away at times

Hey HornEd, Thanks for your kind words re: our site and our passion. I could tell you took the time to check it out and you picked up quickly on who we are and what we're about! You're a very insightfull dude, dude! The sampler left today via pony express, so should make it to The Cats sometime next week. Here's Nancy's response to me (we email back and forth when I'm at "work") about your post: (LOL) "I read and enjoyed most of what your friend Ed wrote, but much of it left me in the dark. I don't understand you high techies - you all seem to have your own language. What is a laptop WiFi'd on the patio? What is music a la PWK? And I don't even want to know about tubes and K-horns with Bells in the middle. But he's probably right about your recording clients loving your big fancy new sound system. I did understand the part about him being excited about my music. That's very nice, so I think he'll enjoy the Sampler. His Sampler went out in Tuesday's mail. Bunnies and afghans though...I don't know. He'll have to settle for the sound bites on the website I guess. Love, Your Nancy" I think we'll need a few jillion CD sales to build a HornEd compliant system!! Thanks again for the encouraging comments, Friend! Gordon

Thanks HornEd! "One Ultra should bring a lot of musical enjoyment... and go along way to HT bliss... but it actually takes two to get to bliss... well at least bliss in a minor key for those who see Bliss as a Heavenly prospect." Actually, after I posted this question to you (Which SVS?), I surfed more of your posts then went to SVS to browse. SVS Ultra is IT for me! I expect Major Bliss from this! Nancy, however is expecting Minor Pain. As you say, it takes two, so will probably end up at least Minor Bliss Gordon

Thanks, j-malotky! I've got SVS bookmarked and will follow up w/them! Gordon

BBB wrote: "Wow. Sorry to hear about your square footage problem Gordon. Bummer. And just when we were all starting to get so excited about spending your money." Me too, B, Me too. The good news is that we can go back to looking at private colleges for my daughter. Gordon

"yes... i have yet to hear something that can approach the quality if the grandpiano in my woodfloored living room as well >=)" Hey jasNOOB, I guess you're not too nuts after all Hi HornEd! A sampler should go out in today's mail for you. It's got 2 to 4 selections from each of the 8 CD's we have out with a voiceover that introduces each album over the first part. It is one of our marketing tools. Order forms and brochure will be enclosed. Sounds like you know your piano recordings! I eagerly (with some trepedition) await your comments!! With your system, I know you will hear some of the distortion flaws introduced at the mastering stage (sounds almost like clipping, but I can guarantee it wasn't!), but I don't think they are often enough or serious enough to flaw your listening experience. They make me cringe 'cause I know they're there! Just so you know, it is not jazz. Actually, it is the opposite. More like smooth classical, with LIFE! Like Jim Brickman with EMOTION!! Like Yanni with SOMETHING to SAY!!! Okay, enough shameless self-promotion. Sorry for the spam, guys. Not my intent, but the man asked. Gordon

Oh, Oh,..... HornEd! I tagged onto your posts this afternoon as I enjoyed your comments on the Dipole thread. Paydirt again! I have not posted it here yet, but my intended to marry to my Klipsch speakers is an SVS sub! It's amazing the convergence of what I want to do as I've surfed different forums! I've got a good 600W amp that I intend to drive it with. Which one (SVS flavor, that is) would you recommend to go with RF-7 mains and center (and (sob) RB-5II suffounds)?? Gordon Hot on HornEd's trail

Thanks for the commiseration, Bruinsrme and HornEd. Bruin, you're still able to fit RB3's? That's cool. As far as the piano music, HornEd, It's Sweet Nancy's original piano music. We've got 8 CD's out and they sell well as it is very original and evocative. Marketing is tough as an independent musician, though. Once people give it a listen, we get a LOT of repeat orders w/fans all over. It is truly unique and wonderful music. If you like, email us your address and I'll send you a free sampler CD for all your help here. The full story and our contact information is at www.sweetnancy.com. Gordon PS: I have yet to find a system that can approach the live sound of our grand piano in our wood-floored living room! Talk about eveloping! I tried to capture it, but you can be the judge of the recording yourself.

Sob, whimper.... I mocked up an RF-7 in cardboard and took it down to the room that will someday be our HT. Ugh. There is NO WAY I can use them as surrounds! They'll be fine floor-standing as front mains, but NO WAY can I put these monsters on my walls! In my semi-delusional state, gripped by sonic lust, I held it up in the various surround locations to see if there was any chance for a positive WAF. Sweet Nancy just laughed at me. Sorry to say, but she' right. Sorrier than I can say! (Sob, sniffle). It's just not that big a room. Only 11' wide w/7' ceilings (20' long). The RB-5II bookshelves are the biggest I can go, so I guess that's what's got to be. Goodbye dreams of the KILLINGEST KILLER audio system west of the Mississippi!! Hello reality. The good news is that 2 pair of RB-5II's will cost me less than 1 RF-7 (approx). I hope they work ok as surrounds and rears. Any comments about these? I'm still holding out for a HornEd modded RF-7 center! Or- Maybe I should buy a bigger house?? Gordon Checked by reality.

Hi again, HornEd! You wrote: "PS: Actually, that's a misnomer... for it is only in the theater of your mind that sound becomes meaningful... sadly, waxing poetic may give ears more credit than they deserve!" I disagree! I believe the ears are more closely connected to our "soul", "id" or whattever you want to call the innermost part of your conciousness. They never shut down, you still hear when you're sleeping. They shape your perceptions more than any other sense - even vision. That's why I'm stressing the importance of the mono approach 'cause one is always hearing and some part of the brain is always triangulating on the source of the sound. I don't have to tell YOU any of this obviously! Anyway, Ed, I really appreciate your posts. They seem to come from a wealth of experience and first-hand knowlege. Gordon PS: Don't stop "waxing poetic". I think it's cool!!

Hi Kjohnsonhp! Below is copied a post I made over at AVS forum just a few days ago (that's how new my search is!). I've been surfing AVS and Home Theater Forums for advice for my planned HT project and after spending a lot of time on displays, I headed over to the audio dept. What a bunch of opinions there are! Seems everyone has one!!! The best advice I got, though, was to let your ears be the judge!! Don't take anyone's opinion too seriously, no matter how strident their recommendations!!! (including mine - especially mine!) Gordon I'm a Believer!! I just heard 'em. Wow! My local Tweeter's has Klipsch systems set up beside others so I could A/B them with various sources. One of which was one of our own albums of solo piano music (I've got a recording studio and am intimately familiar with the sound on this CD, which I recorded and produced). For stereo, it was a pair of RF-7's ($2k) against a Boston Acoustics pair ($.3k), a Vienna pair ($2k), and also some VERY expensive Italian speakers whose claim to fame was their leather wrapping ($4.5k) (the marbled leather texture is what gives them their great sound, don't ya know ) I am no golden-ear and am a newbie to high-end audio and HT, so take my opinion FWIW, but the detail I heard on the Klipsch was much greater than any of the others. There are places on our piano CD that the Mastering Engineer induced distortion while taming some peaks (piano is a real challenge to limit or compress). I only ever heard them on my studio headphones, never could hear the distortions on any speaker system I've played it on, so I let it pass through when I had them pressed. Those defects came through clearly at all listening levels on the Klipsch system, and were barely noticable on the $4.5K system but not at all on the others. I could go on about what I heard on the other sources, but suffice to say that the difference in sound was dramatic, leaving the others to sound "muddy" in comparison. I can understand those who feel the Klipsch are "too bright" 'cause that's the way they would sound if you're used to the others. I don't know if that's because some frequencies are unnaturally boosted, but the material that I'm familiar with seemd to have a good tonal balance, with a bit lacking on the low register notes (no sub used on the stereo listening shootout). The Vienna and Gucci (I wish I'd written down the mfg's name for the leather-clad jobs (ed:Sonus Faber)) did better on the bottom than the Klipsch's as stand-alones. For every test, we started with a very low volume and worked up, so the much greater volume of the Klipsch at the same level setting on the reciever would not cause an apparent improvement of the sound due to greater volume. Those suckers are effecient noise-makers! Require MUCH less power to get volume out of them. When a gravelly-voiced blues singer was demo'd I felt I could count the pieces of gravel! Everything was descretely distinct. I also understand how some would feel ear-fatigue from listening to these speakers. I liken it to eye-fatigue from a DLP or plasma display as apposed to the softer appearance of a CRT-based display. A few DVD demos with the RF7's, RC7, RS7's and the RSW12 were fabulous. When the sub was added in, any problem I had with low end went away. Anyway, I'm sold and I can understand the strongly held pro/con opinions held here since they are so distintive. FWIW, Gordon

Hey Horn Ed! That mod does not sound too hard! I appreciate the detailed description! Into my permanent file it goes. Man, if I can swing a 7x RF7 system, how cool would THAT be!!! All I can say is my Co. bonus better happen this year! By the time this is all done, I'll have a killer audio system and only be able to afford a 9" B&W set! One quick question for you, Ed. I was intending to use stock RF-7's for surrounds, but mounted horizontally on the wall(If I can find the space- I'm going to mock-up in cardboard and see). You seem to be saying that your mod would improve the sound in this configuration. True? Hey Prodj101, thanks for another confirming vote for this approach! There are lots of happy dipolers out here, but I've been happily monogamous all these years and intend to stay that way. Thanks guys! This forum is GREAT! Gordon