Crossman Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Another question - your patience appreciated. I just recently bought a pair of original Khorns that sound OK but need updating (such as the question about woofers in my previous post) To the point - there is also some veneer damage on some of the smaller strips around the top sections where the horns are located and I would like to know what kind of wood veneer / stain combination would be best for replacement. So far I haven't been able to produce a dark enough match in my shop. Thanks again, Crossman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groomlakearea51 Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Can you take some photos and post them here so folks can see what you are describing? It sounds like "edgebanding"; also in order to match edgebanding, can you post what they are (on serial number sticker on bass bin it will say "KC-BR" or "KB-OO", KC-WL", etc. Generally, it's not that difficult, but you may end up simply re-veneering the bins and the top sections at some point to get all of the veneer to match properly. A good place to look first if you are not familiar with veneering is www.joewoodworker.com He has an extensive reference "library" that you can read and get an idea of how to do it. Look at Heatlock glue, paperbacked veneers and edgebanding in particular. For K-horns calculate for 2 full sheets of veneer and ~60' of edgebanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 It is very difficult to match new veneer to old. I tried for a couple of weeks on a walnut pair of Khorns. The wood changes over time, so there's just no way to match it and then have it match over time. If the damage is mainly with the edge veneer, you could consider using a complimentary, but different veneer for just the edging. Or, you may end up doing what I did, just replace all the damn veneer! Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossman Posted January 11, 2009 Author Share Posted January 11, 2009 I have come to the conclusion that you are absolutely correct. My next question is: How did you remove the old veneer? Thanks, Crossman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Don't remove the veneer, after prepping what's there, just veneer over it. It's a bit of a process and takes a little skill, but within the range of skill of most who have done some woodworking in their lives. Best thing to do is to read up on it a bit. There are a lot of threads here, so search the forum. Also, check out www.joewoodworker.com for articles on veneering. Of course you can always read through my webpages for information too www.dcchomes.com/Gregsaudio.html For veneer, I recommend paper-backed from www.oakwoodveneer.com and the Heatlock glue (iron-on method) from joewoodworker. If you haven't done veneer before, I would recommend doing something small for practice before tackling the Khorns. If you have more money than time, send them up to me and I'll take good care of them for you. [] Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossman Posted January 11, 2009 Author Share Posted January 11, 2009 I checked your website. You do some great work. You apparently are referring to the 10 Mil paperback - I suppose in 4' x 8' sheets? How many sheets would it take to cover a pair of Khorns? Thanks, Crossman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 You apparently are referring to the 10 Mil paperback - I suppose in 4' x 8' sheets? How many sheets would it take to cover a pair of Khorns? Yes. Two if the grain pattern lays out properly. Easily two if they are "C" cabinets. You can request pics of the sheet before you purchase. Take a look at the photo below. The layout is critical. This sheet has 8 sections across and gives a couple of different layout possibilities for the fronts. Ask for consecutive sheets so you can have the same layout for the front of each speaker. Actually, this sheet is 4' x 9', so there's plenty with two sheets and the layout will be easy. Tineo - Indian Apple Wood - $650 - $700 shipped for two sheets. I wish I had a pair of Khorns to restore right now, I'd buy this veneer. This would be stunning on a pair of Khorns. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossman Posted January 15, 2009 Author Share Posted January 15, 2009 A couple of questions if you don't mind. 1. What tool do you use to initially cut the veneer? 2. Do you cut your veneer sections to fit or do you cut a larger piece and then trim? 3. If you trim do you trim after gluing or before gluing? 4. If you trim after gluing what tool do you use to trim? 5. Will there be a problem with veneer shrinkage while bonding? Thanks, Crossman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 Good questions. Please do some research. I cannot possibly teach anyone how to veneer by answering questions on a forum or by email. No matter how helpful it might seem, you must read about the process and then do all the steps to really understand how this works. www.joewoodworker.com has good articles on veneering. Also, read through some of my webpages www.dcchomes.com/Gregsaudio.html and you will see how this whole process works. Before you tackle any large project, do a small project first to get the hang of the whole process. 1. razor knife. 2. cut larger. 3 +4. trim after glueing with a veneer trimmer along the grain and a knife and straightedge across the grain, finish with a random orbit sander (carefully). 5. No, not with paper-backed veneer and Heatlock glue (iron-on method). Greg Just bustin ya here a little . . . . . 1. What type of scalpel do you use? 2. How much anesthesia do you use? 3. Will I need to add more anesthesia during the operation? 4. What size needle do you use to suture with? 5. Do you count your surgical implements before and after the operation to make sure nothing was left inside the patient? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batmans Robin Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 Greg, Those are very pretty! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 I'll wade in here. Of course Greg is the master. As he said, you should start with a small project to gain some experience. Still, the structure of the K-Horn has its own challenges. A couple of questions if you don't mind. 1. What tool do you use to initially cut the veneer? Paper backed veneer is like thin cardboard. You can use a razor knife with a straight edge or a pair of scissors. 2. Do you cut your veneer sections to fit or do you cut a larger piece and then trim? The typical technique with simple boxes or panels is to cut a bit oversized so there is a 1/4 inch overhang. Then you trim after glueing. Joe Woodworker sells a veneer saw. I used a similar one. There is some technique required because in many situations you will need a piece of scrap wood on the other side of the veneer. 3. If you trim do you trim after gluing or before gluing? Generally after. It is impossible to cut, position, and hold an exactly cut piece of veneer. 4. If you trim after gluing what tool do you use to trim? Generally the razor knife or a veneer saw with a straight edge. Very carefully. But see my annotations to Greg's picture. You can't take apart the K-Horn to make banding easy. So I started with the front veneer with a clean straight cut butted up against the kick plate at (a) and glue the front panel veneer. Then you have to trim at ( to match were the edge banding will meet. You'll have to mask the banding area. Similar issues are at © and (d). Some years ago I used contact cement on the home make K-Horns. It was a bear and eventually I screwed up badly in sanding, What a mess. I have not tried the heat lock. My guess is that once it is heated, it can be loosened with another application of heat. But some comments by others indicate catalization (sp). 5. Will there be a problem with veneer shrinkage while bonding? I don't think so, or not too much, with paper backed veneer in this situation. But I've not done it with heat. Again, doing a simple box speaker requires practice. The K-Horn is even more difficult. A good bit of thinking ahead is necessary. Wm McD Thanks, Crossman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batmans Robin Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 BIll, were you ever successful with a veneer project after the one you say you "screwed up badly in sanding." DON'T GIVE UP! You can make thousands of dollars on the right project if you find someone with gobs of money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groomlakearea51 Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 It took me at least 5-6 pairs of Heresy's just to really get it right enough to attempt a pair of Cornwalls... At least 3 pairs of those before I even thought about K-horns..... Practice..... practice..... practice.... and go back to Greg's website and carefully look at each photograph... twice.... or more.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batmans Robin Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 Dang! Did you keep doing the same speakers over and over I hope? You didn't have to throw them out??? I had no idea. It looks simple as can be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groomlakearea51 Posted January 21, 2009 Share Posted January 21, 2009 Dang! Did you keep doing the same speakers over and over I hope? Yup.... until I got it right with no "glaring" errors.... First pair went to a buddy of mine as a Christmas present. Next couple pairs went off to eBay (long before I knew that there was a Klipsch Forum....) and the owners were happy. I had no idea. It looks simple as can be. You are right.... it looks simple, but the only really "simple" part is gluing on the veneer...... it's the prep, and in particular, the trimming out, staining or lacquering, etc. that will give a novice a fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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