Jolly Roger Posted February 20, 2002 Share Posted February 20, 2002 The Rb's do come in three different colors where as the Rf's only come in black. That and the size is thier main advantages.(plus you'd have $60 toward a center) You could always use them as rears if you ever stumbled across some cash in the future and wanted to get the Rf's. You just have to weigh the options. The Rf-3s appear to be 9" (22.9cm)wide x 16.2" (41cm) deep. Id srew around with that in my listning area to see how much space I had. My manual says nothing about distance from the wall for either speaker except that the closer to a wall will result in additional output do to reflected energy. (this is for both rb and rf) It also says that either the rb or rf should be between 6 and 15 feet apart. Another thing to consider is do you have some good speaker stands for the rbs? The manual says the rbs need to have the horn at ear level when seated for best results. Hope some of this helps.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John0392 Posted February 20, 2002 Author Share Posted February 20, 2002 Yep, this help alot and I thank you. I have approx 8 to 10 feet apart so that's not a problem. I know about the speaker stands (Samas 24") and that an additional $85+ which washes the $60 gained. The rf3 black doesn't thrill me much and I will probably have to go with (on the short run) an KSC C1 for center and (2) quintets for rears Ugh!. I getting closer to a decision and I appreciate you advise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted February 20, 2002 Share Posted February 20, 2002 john, yea that's another option. how bout those rp-3 or rp-5 being cleared out at unbelievable prices. then you have 3 subs. will your receiver send lfe only to the sub preout like ttk's? & you can set fronts large to your hearts content because the subs & front speakers are in the same speaker/place. i favor the rf-3 too. got a pair for the stereo listening lounge. angled in from corners & out about 6 in or so. sound excellent. wouldn't sweat the placement space too much as long as u can put 'em out at least 6 in. can u demo (a/b) the two for your ears & situation? keith, good analogy on the engine. & yea the problem is we buy these anti-thx 600 horse-tower speakers but the high fixed crossover is like a govenor. who says your set up is wrong? i think you're right on doing that w/ powered towers. but if keith were to run the seperate sub on fronts+lfe then he'd probably get that muddy bass, especially like on music. that's why that lfe only is so nice. but if we set the sub to lfe only we have no other sub(s) for low bass. as keith says, an option then for music is to not use a sub along w/ the mains for the low bass (lfe only setting). w/ my set-up though i really dig even the 2 channel music in 6 speaker stereo along w/ the sub. full-tilt boogie! ------------------ My Home Systems Page This message has been edited by boa12 on 02-20-2002 at 12:36 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornEd Posted February 20, 2002 Share Posted February 20, 2002 For what it's worth, Jolly Roger... the amount of time I spend listening is what initiated the quest to find out what was going on. While I support the right for pirates of sound mind to publish their opinions and champion the concept that each person has the right and obligation to their own psychoacoustics impression of Nirvana... it is quite possible to sonically map one's listening area with enough precision to realize that long waves have special needs that must be met to give even your ear the best ride for the money spent on your rig. While "Mother Nature" may not hear a tree fall in the forest... but a "Deaf Daddy" with a Radio Shack SPL meter could certainly register the event. Physics affects us all... even well meaning pirates who are at-sonic-sea. I regret the "mother nature" analogy that Tom Vodhanel used in a reply to my post upset you... it was just meant to be a humorous way to say that there is a reality beyond opinion that affects the sane among us. May your journey down the sound roads of life bring joy beyond imagination. HornEd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John0392 Posted February 20, 2002 Author Share Posted February 20, 2002 Boa, I appreciate your comments. The RPs are way over the top for my room. I have pretty much settled on the RB 5 because 1) Ihave the sub already 2) size and construct i.e. wood veneer vs partical board. Audioreview.com have numerous great reviews on this speaker and again because of the size of my room I believe these babies will give me a great bang for the buck. Again, I know I am pairing them with KSC C1 (actually I have heard good reports on this center when paired with reference - especially in a room only 13'x13') and Quints in rear, but this will be a TREMENDOUS emprovement over quints in front don't you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted February 20, 2002 Share Posted February 20, 2002 john, yes definitely so. happy tweaking w/ those fine rb & don't forget the large vs small test ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolly Roger Posted February 20, 2002 Share Posted February 20, 2002 It didnt upset me I just thought it was a bad analogy who ever came up with it. Your right "Physics affects us all... even well meaning pirates who are at-sonic-sea." to bad we dont both have the same room at sea for you to tell me whats best... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted February 20, 2002 Share Posted February 20, 2002 John, I guess the passion in the replies conveys everyones desire to help you make the correct choices the first time.You need to listen to speakers,take others advice under advisement,and make informed decisions so as to spend your money wisely.In your small room you shouldn't need more than the bookshelfs will provide.As far as the center is concerned you might try HornEds phantom suggestion and buy the MATCHING center when you can.You will have saved that C-1 $100 or so when you later realize you need the correct center.Good luck with your purchase. Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted February 20, 2002 Share Posted February 20, 2002 i wasn't even paying attention to the center john, listen to these guys & get a single rb or at least an rc-3 for a center when u can. maybe someday u could use your C1 as a rear center between the quints. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seb Posted February 21, 2002 Share Posted February 21, 2002 hey guys, sorry if i stated my opinion as a fact. I was just trying to make life simple for the first poster, and I guess I oversimplified. however, I don't think there was any room in my post to let you accuse me of favoritism towards the RB-5s: I CLEARLY stated that I would choose the RF-3s any day. and of course, the ideal would be to have 6 full range speakers with a couple subwoofers placed either in one location, stacked, or in carefully selected locations that avoid standing waves, with an adjustable crossover set lower than 80Hz (and certainly lower than 100Hz!!). however, that is not an option for a lot of people and not practical for most. given that john seemed to be at a relatively early stage of his quest for great sound, I assumed he wasn't at the "all full-range plus sub(s)" stage. I still maintain, however, that, in the great majority of rooms, it is impossible to have 5 or 6 main speakers set to large and one subwoofer only reproducing LFE without serious issues. quite simply, in most rooms, ideal speaker placement for soundstage accuracy and ideal speaker placement for best bass response are two very different things. that is where the specialized speaker that is the subwoofer comes in, to tame those nasty standing waves and help us get the best bass response from the bass speaker, and the best imaging from the other speakers. the sub, being a specialized bass speaker, and properly positioned, can in fact take on the task that could have been assigned to the other 5-6 speakers and do better. plus, it was my understanding that there was kind of a consensus amongst the majority, at least here on this board, about small+sub being the bets choice 90% of the time... ------------------ http://members.fortunecity.com/sebdavid - go laugh at my crappy website/equipment http://www.dvdprofiler.com/mc.asp?alias=Sebdavid - go laugh at my puny little DVD collection Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John0392 Posted February 21, 2002 Author Share Posted February 21, 2002 I want to thank you all for all of your help in this matter. Indeed these type of purchases ususally come around only once. I am definitely going to try to make this the last time and not get into the upgrade madness situation. I am going to either get or wait and get the RC 3 match for the RB-5mk11. I have, now realizing suffered, the quintet system and up until a short time ago didn't really think I needed more. They are a pretty good sound for what they are. No real good with music though. I believe the RBs will be a significant upgrade in this department. The RFs, IMO, are a little large for my cozy place and they aren't the best looking things around. Most of the reviews I have read even gave the RBs higher marks than the RF. I realize that to many bigger is better and perhaps in the final analysis they maybe; however, seeing as though I won't have to do any A/B comparisons in my home - ignorance is bliss wouldn't ya say? NOW one last small question. Taking above in consideration where do I set the crossover on my KSW 12" being everything set small and with the RB 5s? Thanks again everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted February 21, 2002 Share Posted February 21, 2002 john, don't know which receiver u have, but in most cases w/ it's sub preout to sub connection it does the filtering/crossovering for the sub. in the case of the LFE channel all the LFE is sent only to the sub preout. so if you don't want to lose any lfe material you turn the ksw crossover control all the way up to the highest freq point. in the case of my velo sub i totally switch out the crossover on the sub. but the ksw don't have this switch i do believe. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolly Roger Posted February 21, 2002 Share Posted February 21, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Seb: hey guys, sorry if i stated my opinion as a fact. I was just trying to make life simple for the first poster, and I guess I oversimplified. No problem I probably just took it the wrong way. Sorry if I came off sounding sour. Maybe I just fall into the 10 percent where all set to small just doesnt sound as good. One of the problems is no two rooms are the same and thats probably the main factor that dictates. Do you guys run small and a sub in two channel stereo also? I doesn't seem like you would. I unhook my sub all together alot when playing my tv through my speakers also. So that was really only my point that you'd have a choice not that one way was better than the other. They are both great speakers and John really can't go wrong with either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seb Posted February 21, 2002 Share Posted February 21, 2002 yeah, small+sub with music as well. my mains just don't have what it takes. plus, a lot of the music I listen to is quite bass-intensive. glad it's all settled! ------------------ http://members.fortunecity.com/sebdavid - go laugh at my crappy website/equipment http://www.dvdprofiler.com/mc.asp?alias=Sebdavid - go laugh at my puny little DVD collection Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John0392 Posted February 21, 2002 Author Share Posted February 21, 2002 Using H/K 500 with sub crossover at 100HZ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted February 21, 2002 Share Posted February 21, 2002 2 channel music is usually THE reason for that low quality/muddy bass with a high fixed crossover & the mains set large w/ a seperate sub. that's caus on 2 channel music the dsp creates sub output from the low bass. so then you have large front mains & the sub in different places in the room reproducing the same low bass info simultaneously. hence the pressure nodes &/or conflicting bass in the spectrum they share (say 30-80hz). so when i used my marantz sr8000 (fixed 80hz crossover) for 5 channel stereo music the best overall low bass came from setting all speaks small. but if i played a 5.1 disk like say a dvd concert, i usually switched by remote to direct mode. then all 5 speaks got full range & the sub only got LFE. the eagles hell freezes sounded great this way because of the excellent job they did on the mix. iow, LFE didn't interfere w/ the low bass in the other channels. you may want to try this out. but yea 'nuff said - until/unless it gets deleted there's a wealth of opinion on here on the ole large vs small debate. like i've said 'nuff to oblivion, if they offered the flexability in the crossover settings, large vs small would be a non-issue. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted February 21, 2002 Share Posted February 21, 2002 Actually the RB5 is more expensive if you complement the speakers with a high quality stand. I use lead filled Sanus Steel 24 inch stands. Special ordered with the larger top plate(rubber grommets between top plate and RB5); they have cone points to anchor to the floor. The mass of the filled stand ends up between 40-45 pounds. A pretty reasonable anchor to the floor. Thoughts to ponder... 1. Buy the main speaker that sounds the best for music. Sub and center can supplement for best HT sound. 2. minor consideration is the wood finnish(wife factor) 3. Fixed crossovers at 80 or 100 hz in HT receivers or preamps are one of the bigger rip offs in audio today. Large setting with 40, 50, or 60 hz crossover options would add allot of flexibility to experiment. 4. There seems to be a great performance difference between SC1 and RC3. I really like RC3 for mid bass slam. the klf c7 is cool but a monster of a box to find room for. Whether RF3 or RB5 you will have fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John0392 Posted February 22, 2002 Author Share Posted February 22, 2002 Unfortunately, the receiver I have doesn't give one any means to adjust the crossovers. As I stated the only one H/K would give me is the bass at 100HZ. I will, if I am able to get this stuff, have to go with speakers on the cheap. ugh! but what is one to do with very little means? thanks for your help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted February 22, 2002 Share Posted February 22, 2002 "I still maintain, however, that, in the great majority of rooms, it is impossible to have 5 or 6 main speakers set to large and one subwoofer only reproducing LFE without serious issues. quite simply, in most rooms, ideal speaker placement for soundstage accuracy and ideal speaker placement for best bass response are two very different things. that is where the specialized speaker that is the subwoofer comes in, to tame those nasty standing waves and help us get the best bass response from the bass speaker, and the best imaging from the other speakers. the sub, being a specialized bass speaker, and properly positioned, can in fact take on the task that could have been assigned to the other 5-6 speakers and do better." I read that in a magazine somewhere.We could argue that staement forever. Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolly Roger Posted February 22, 2002 Share Posted February 22, 2002 I'm trying to understand this better so bear with me. Just because I get a standing wave from one direction doesnt mean I get it at the same frequency from another direction right? Example: If I have all my speakers set to small except my mains, and lfe sent to sub+mains. If I get a null say at 40hz from the sub I'd still hear it from the mains right? or vive versa. Where as if I had all speakers set to small and lfe just to sub I would pretty much miss that 40hz all together. Would toe in help reduce standing waves in that they dont reflect right back at themselves or is that an either/or type thing? Do push pull drivers have an effect on standing waves? Thanks for any and all input... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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