ALK Unis vs AAs; Wooden Horns vs Metal Horns; Can Hardly Hear the Tweeter; and Test Tones

[nola]

ALK Unis vs AAs; Wooden Horns vs Metal Horns; Can Hardly Hear the Tweeter

sorry for the ptl repost

Search terms: compare differences ALK Universal crossover network to vs Klipsch AA xover network; wooden horn; magnetised screw 0.245 mH inductor.

First results, all tested from my LT Khorn, RT Khorn and subwoofer usually disconnected, at 11pm - 1 am:

1) Both my N '75 and T 1979 AA networks (Khorn N and LaScala T) had magnetic screws thru the .245 mH inductor. They were removed (see other thread). When I listened to the speakers running all components at the same time I not hear any difference screws in or out, nor with a magnet (refrig note magnet) adj to it. I did not test the components separately trying this. Boy, compared to the Solen Litz 16 AWG .24s, the Klipsch.245s look iddy biddy tiny. I will get new non magnetic screws. -- Got them from Lowes, both steel and brass non magnetic wooden screws #10, 1-1.5" long.

2) When listened to full range with Barry White's Greatest Hits CD and Elton John 60th B'day DVD, the diffs were - to me - minor, ALK vs recapped AA.However, when the woofer, mid and tweeter were assessed separately, diffs were significant. (NB: I never tested my KHs, H Is, nor H IIs this carefully, 1 component / driver at a time, following my Crites Sonicap recaps.)

- stock K 77 tweeter (others not connected). Well, I could not hear much from it from either network, AA nor ALK. Even pulled open an H II to test the tweeter lead, attaching it to the H II K 76, in case something was wrong wth my K 77 - again not loud at all. Either I have high frequency hearing loss or the tweeters are simply not loud. In fact, to me they were both kind of quiet. As memory serves me, my hearing test test a yr ago only tested me up to 4000 Hz. Isn't that roughly the cutoff between midrange and tweeter? Has anyone else listened to 1 tweeter at a time / in isolation? Is it "loud" like the midrange? In short, run full range I first thought the highs were better off the ALK. But just listening to the tweeter alone disproved that. Makes me wonder if there really any point in getting the Crites C125. I really would like feedback about tweeter loudness, etc.

-- I pondered if this was a DVD player problem. Per test tone stuff below, it wasn't. Also, big drop in perception of sound loudness and drop in SPLs about around 5KHz. This cannot be properly appreciated without test tones - as done on night 2 of the tests. This drop around 5k was also noted in the bedroom tower based system.

K 55 V stock metal horn and K 55 M coupled to the ALK wooden trachorn - others not connected.This was interesting. The 2 horns were clearly different when listened to separately. The diffs were clearly more notable off the ALK. I think the dynamic range of the 55m/woodie was less than the stock 55v/metal. I will have to test some more in case this was due to the 55v vs 55m driver. I pulled a 55v off the LaScala to do the test, but have not done it yet. What I heard seems to run counter to what others have posted. Mr K, others please chime in; I thought the wooden horn would have done better.

Not using the RS SPL meter, it took me a while to figure out setting off the ALK AT (transformer) would match the loudness of the AA, in order to make comparisons fair (I used the next to least attn settings.The setting mentioned by Mr. K for the AT was much quieter than the AA). I did not do this until almost the end of my tests. At first, I thought the AA was better, but at near equal sound levels (best guess by ear) the ALK and AA were both pleasing but different. Not sure how to explain it though. Could it be due to each network having somewhat different cutoffs per the mid range horn,? I guess. I have to admit, that listening to the mid metal horn alone seemed ok, with both networks.

K33 woofer (others not connected) - again, maybe due to different cutoffs to mid horn, the ALK seemed to have a wider range than the AA. Just listening to the K33 alone is not a very pleasing experience.

Sub listened to / felt with others not running was interesting, but not especially pleasing. Now, WOW pods or U 571 depth charges are another story

The ALK I used for these tests was not the one with solder spot on the .20 mH coil (just to be fair, although that one sounds nice too). The AA I used was the only 1 I recapped, pulled from the same LT KH. Of the 2 wooden horns that I have, I have only listened to 1 so far.

Pls keep in mind that I had 8-12 feet of test wires (14 AWG) running from the appropr network to the LT KHorn. I was not a fast lead switcher betw networks either. Also, I only tested the 2 sources mentioned via a stereo setting. My 990 does not do mono.

All comments are both welcome and appreciated.

Just listened with test CD and audio signal or test tone generator. I think I really am half deaf now-just from the piercing sounds.The computer tt gen used is SigJenny.
http://binkster.net/extras.shtml#cd bear in mind v high freq tones did not CD well and had to played directly off the laptop

http://www.realtraps.com/test-cd.htm mostly for lower freq

I tested both my bedroom WF 34s and AV123 ELT525s and RSW 15 (5.1) system and my main room Khorns and a dual 18" driver sub.

Above 5k or so my perception of the sound level really dropped off; as did the RS SPL. But unlike last nights music only test, at least I think I can hear up to 12K Hz (based on the TTs) ok. I see the audiologist tomorrow for the very high freq stuff, maybe up to 16k Hz. Boy, those high pitched tones and a few others can be killer after just a few seconds. If the TTs are supposed to be at the same SPLs throughout, both my rooms are accoustic nightmares. In some cases, my ears and the SPL meter hugely disagreed on the apparent loudness of the tones. Remember to expect this non linear response in biologic systems, we are all imperfect (some more than others of course). With the higher pitched stuff, moving even a small amount in the room made a tremendous difference in the loudness and ?stereo imaging? of the sound. Wow, I would have never noticed this without the TTs and the SPL in combo.

[Islander]

Single drivers listened to in isolation (tweeter alone, squawker alone, woofer alone) never sound very good, to my ears at least. You just get "tish, tish, tish" out of the tweeters, some low muffled sounds out of the woofers, and the squawkers sound like clock radios. You can check to see if the drivers are actually working, but they really need to work as a group to sound good at all.

[Coytee]

Agree 100%. When I cut the bass bin out of the Jubilees the top horn sounds thin & tinny. If I reverse it and cut the top horn out and listen just to the bass bins they sound somewhat boomy but put them together and it's amazing what they sound like, totally night & day difference.

[nola]

What makes an orchestra or a choir or a marching band - everything working together.

Howvwer when A/B testing, having 4 sets of leads to detach and reattach (in/wf/mid/tw) each time is beyond tedious. Also gives me the chance to look at each component completely unto itself. (This assumes that there is no "back talk" from the other drivers. I should note that when I even kept common - neg - leads between xovers the results indicated some type of inter crossover crosstalk, so that idea died quickly. Also, if I accidentally plugged the mid neg or pos lead into the tweeter or woofer neg or pos, even for a few seconds, etc., the results were a bit funky too).

By looking at each component on its own (playing the CD/DVD Mon night)I was able to note stuff not noted in full 3 way. Sort of like why each speaker should be tested on its own, with nothing else on. I should note that the test tones were only tested in full 3 way; once on the AA, and once on the ALK (my CD did not burn the v high freq TTs properly!!!!, thus had to listen with laptop hooked in to 990 via 1/8" plug to stereo RCA jacks type wiring.)

I like the part about the bad kitchen radio, It is kinda like a mid range on its own