arfz28 Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 HI. I want to install a sub to my k-horns. I have a old sansui reciever a g-7700. It has no subwoofer output on it or any pre out main in jacks. I want to hook this sub up so it wont affect the sound at all coming from my k-horns.I wonder if I can hook it up to my b speaker terminals on my reciever. This way I hope I can adjust the base volume on my sub to give my system some more bottom end.Im thinking about getting a true subwoffer by carver. Has anybody hooked up a good sub to a set of k-horns with an older reciever. Will it work or am I just wasting my money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 i'd just hook both up in parallel to the A terminals. a powered sub won't present any real load. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Garrison Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 Seconding Boa, you can hook the Carver sub using the sub's speaker level inputs. Connect a set of speaker wires (don't need anything fancy, it'll be carrying practically no current) between the receiver and the sub. You can either connect the sub to the same speaker terminals you're using for the Klipschorns, or to the "B" speaker set, whichever is easier. Several sub makers recommend this setup, in fact. For an interesting overview of why, check out REL's website at http://rel.net Ray ------------------ Music is art Audio is engineering Ray's Music System Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundog Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 I just can not understand why you need more bass from a pair of Klipschorns. If they are sealed to the wall tightly and if your amplification is solid you should get plenty of real musical bass. Unless your listening to pipe organs there is not much musical content below 35Hz. If you want LFE from DVDs that is a different matter. But for music a sub just seems to detract from the high speed dynamics of a horn loaded basss driver. I am not familiar with your receiver but you might do better with higher quality amplification. ------------------ Soundog's HT Systems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Garrison Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 Hi Soundog! Regarding the sub issue... assuming the KHorn is optimally coupled in an ideal room, it's still going to be down about 6dB at 35Hz relative to its output at 100Hz. The range from 20Hz to 40Hz is one full octave. Granted that there's not many acoustic instruments with fundamental tones in that range, but (a) there is a LOT of ambient noise content encoded there, which can do wonderful things to the perceived soundstage when it's properly reproduced, and ( a lot of electronic music (modern rock, rap, hip hop, new wave, pop) has significant content WELL below 35 to 40 Hz. Have you ever tried lugging one of the subs you have upstairs down to the theater, hooking it up, and playing that SACD of the live jazz you played for me? Bet you'd find that having a sub filling in under the KHorns extends the soundstage well forward and back. One of the challenges, of course, is that you're talking about trying to roll in the sub VERY VERY low in frequency - if it's putting out any significant sound that overlaps the bottom end of the KHorns, it'll muck up the sound so badly that any improvements will be overshadowed by, uh, disimprovements. Couple the need for the extremely low crossover with the need for very high output to match the KHorns, and balancing the sub in correctly can be a real challenge. When done properly, however, you'd be really surprised at how much of a difference adding the range below 35Hz makes. Ray ------------------ Music is art Audio is engineering Ray's Music System Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Garrison Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 Oh, by the way... I got that figure of -6dB relative to 100Hz from perusing this chart, which came from Klipsch sometime back... Ray ------------------ Music is art Audio is engineering Ray's Music System Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 Ray, We've discussed this before. Your La Scala curve doesn't look like the one I have from Mr. Paul's AES debut of the La Scala. However, I have found rolling in my subs at 70 Hz sounds MUCH better than 50 or even 60 Hz. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundog Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 The way I read the chart is the Klipschorn is at 100db down 4db from its average 104 output at 35Hz, down an additional 2db at 32 and another 2 db at 30. I tried all my subs with the Klipschorns - the LH10 were the best as they are with your LaScalas and I agree that is better for modern R&R. Maybe I didn't set them low enough, however, I cann't remember, so now I'll have to haul those little hernia packs downstairs. They can be set to low pass of 40 which should intersect with the falling Khorn curve quite nicely. I'll let you know the outcome. ------------------ Soundog's HT Systems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Garrison Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 John, In all honesty, I have NO IDEA where those curves came from. Someone emailed them to me a while back. The original artwork was clearly from a Klipsch publication, but whether it was marketing material, dealer support material, an ad, some sort of technical paper, or what have you I do not know. It's the only official Klipsch frequency response curves I've ever seen, so I figure they're better than nothing. ------------------ Music is art Audio is engineering Ray's Music System Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfz28 Posted March 1, 2002 Author Share Posted March 1, 2002 Thanks for the help people. Soundog my sansui reciever is 120 wpc. It easily powers those k-horns and is a good quality reciever made in the early 80s.My speakers do have good bass response. But it seems like I have to turn up the music perty loud to get that good bottom end that I like. I figured if I could add a powered sub I could control the bass a lot better and get more of it than turning up the k-horns and getting blasted out. I listen mostly to rock music.Also it seems to me that a sub that is good down to 20hz should help the bottom end of the k-horns because they are only good to 35hz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted March 3, 2002 Share Posted March 3, 2002 A sub is very welcome with the K Horn,as it it with the RF-7's.Both have solid bass down to 35Hz. I would get two Carver Knight Shadow subs over a single Sunfire Mark II.The Carver is also designed by Bob carver and goes to 20Hz.Two Carvers subs cost just over $1300US. Or try and get one Sunfire Signature,it has guts to keep up until it gets very shaky(walls that is)in the room. TheEAR(s) Now theears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted March 3, 2002 Share Posted March 3, 2002 Soundog, Just curious...which sub is the LH-10 you refer to in your post above? Is the LH-10 you mention really a Klipsch LF-10? I finally gave up with using a sub with my Khorns, like you had suggested previously. I did move my LF-10 upstairs to use for HT. Thanks! This message has been edited by edster00 on 03-03-2002 at 06:19 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundog Posted March 3, 2002 Share Posted March 3, 2002 yea that's a typo - S.B. LF-10 - I think I'll try them one more time - Ray usually is on target but he used a Rel with LaScalas which is somewhat different. I'm real satisfied with the Khorn bass but when I get a burst of energy I'm going to try it with line inputs and a 40hz rolloff point on both my Khorns with my two LF-10s. They are very musical and it is possible I had them wired less than optimally. ------------------ Soundog's HT Systems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted March 3, 2002 Share Posted March 3, 2002 I thought it might be a typo... I only have one LF-10 and I had it hooked up line level to "help" the Khorn's bottom end. I lost the amp in the LF-10 and when I posted something here regarding the sub you had asked why I needed it w/Khorns. I listened to the Khorns for a couple of weeks without the sub while Klipsch was repairing the amp and when I got it back it sounded better than ever, except with the Khorns! I have preferred the Khorns without a sub ever since. I recently acquired a Sunfire True Sub, I might haul it down to the basement to see if I like it better with the Khorns than the LF-10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfz28 Posted March 3, 2002 Author Share Posted March 3, 2002 Hey edster00. Which sub do you have the mk2 mk4 or the signiture, that you are going to hook up to the k-horns.IM interested in how you think this sub sounds hooked up with the k-horns. Let us know real soon. Are you going to use the speaker level inputs on the sub or line level?Im thinging about getting the signiture sub and hooking it up to my k-horns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted March 3, 2002 Share Posted March 3, 2002 arfz, if you mean hooking up speaks like the khorn directly to the sub speaker level (or the amp from the sub's line outs), beware most powered subs have a high pass filter in that path. may be fixed usually at 80 or 100hz, or switchable & usually a relatively mild 6db/octave slope, but it's there & it'll cut off some lower bass to your khorns. ------------------ My Home Systems Page This message has been edited by boa12 on 03-04-2002 at 01:39 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundog Posted March 4, 2002 Share Posted March 4, 2002 I think what Ray was recomending was to hook the subs in parallel to the Khorns using the subs line level input.. Thus the Khorns would receive input directly from the amp as would the subs. The line level outs that would involve the filtering you mentioned would not be used. ------------------ Soundog's HT Systems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted March 4, 2002 Share Posted March 4, 2002 sd, yea that's what i 1st posted. shoulda directed that to arfz as the last was to his inquiry. then again maybe that's not what was meant by hooking the khorns to the sub (?). post edited. i just try to get the info out there. guess i have to be more careful of stepping on toes. even my own. not saying i stepped on your toes though s-dog. man, this is a tough medium. ------------------ My Home Systems Page This message has been edited by boa12 on 03-04-2002 at 01:41 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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