Juxta Pose Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Hey I'm looking for some bass boost to accompany my 4 kp-362s. I've been told that big subs are used less for electronic music, as the lag of a big driver can put the beat out of time with the higher freq. Is this true? Should I be running several small subs( say 4x 12" or 15") or should I head towards a couple of big subs(like two 18")? I've even seen some 21" subs about two! Although they seem pretty impractical transport wise an seem to be a bit of a show piece for most who have them( 15" or 18" subs I've used have given plenty enough bass). The music the stereo is used for is often a low beat an bass with tempo's ranging from 100 bpm to 150 bpm, with anywhere from 1 to 4 bass pulses between each beat. Any info appreciated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 I've been told that big subs are used less for electronic music, as the lag of a big driver can put the beat out of time with the higher freq...Is this true?...Should I be running several small subs( say 4x 12" or 15") or should I head towards a couple of big subs(like two 18")? What is important is the relative phasing of the subs to your kp-362s in the frequency region where you crossover to the subs. I'd recommend the use of an electronic crossover with steep-slope filters so that the crossover region is minimized. Some subs have a phase control that allows you to add or subtract delay in order for the subs to be adjusted in the crossover region, but you can also do this with other preamps, electronic crossovers, etc. I see no other issues regarding "being out of time" related to subs. Having one large sub or a collection of smaller subs is usually the choice of the listener, but there are articles by Floyd Toole mentioning the advantages of multiple subs in small venues. Having multiple subs allows you many options for venue placement. If you are in medium-to-large venues, then larger subs will be required to achieve the kind of SPLs that your audience may demand. How large a venue are you trying to fill up? I've even seen some 21" subs about two! Although they seem pretty impractical transport wise an seem to be a bit of a show piece for most who have them( 15" or 18" subs I've used have given plenty enough bass).I'd recommend looking at compact subs if you move your rig often, or even maybe not so often. Look especially for tapped horn subs such as those from Danley. Klipsch makes subs (e.g., KPT-882) that are fairly large boxes. All of these devices are fairly heavy, however (~70 Kg or more).Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksonbart Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Big Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andypanda Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Phase control will take care of the LFE latency. Anything over 12 is too boomy for myself. After countless hours of reasearch, usually one woofer is not enough and since I love the bose sub which i beleive is closed and usually carries 3 inches. I surely wanted something with at least two drivers. Then I saw the mother of all subs. The SVS PB2-ISD that has two 12's. This thing shakes the house SEAMLESSY since it is overbuilt. SVS (And other vendors)seemed to cut down design on their newer models and I have read from few reveiws the Klipsch RT-10D shakes around since it doesn't have enough weight. To top it off we now have receivers using .2 and plus more sub channels. Is the industry choking our chain or should there be front, left, right and rear sub speakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juxta Pose Posted November 3, 2009 Author Share Posted November 3, 2009 Look especially for tapped horn subs such as those from Danley Wow these danleys look great but $2300 for a 115 is a bit out of my range, considering it'd cost closer to $3000 by the time I had it freighted to Aus. Any ideas on a cheaper tapped horn? Having multiple subs allows you many options for venue placement. If you are in medium-to-large venues, then larger subs will be required to achieve the kind of SPLs that your audience may demand. How large a venue are you trying to fill up? The system is normally used outdoor, thus the need for as much bass as I can afford.. I've used a couple of 18" subs before pretty much centre stage, in front of the booth. Is this the best position? Can you explain "spl" please an also the benefits of a "tapped horn"? I've used some Funktion Ones before an even had the use of a 6k Turbosound but really need something portable( so far I have 4x85 pound kp-362s, some pretty heavy Mackie or Proel foldbacks an a 75 pound peak amp) an fairly inexpensive, best quality I can afford is the motto I suppose! Thanks for your help, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Any ideas on a cheaper tapped horn?There is a tapped horn from Danley called the TH-SPUD whereby the plans to do it yourself (DIY) have been posted to the web, if you are a woodworker type. It will save you about 80-90% on cost to make your own, and they can be used as risers. The larger Danley designs are more efficient (also known as "higher sensitivity", measured in dB at 1 watt input). I've used a couple of 18" subs before pretty much centre stage, in front of the booth. Is this the best position?The best answer is to try and see. Look for any opportunities for using walls or corners to increase the effectiveness of the sub's output, like a corner horn effect.Can you explain "spl" please an also the benefits of a "tapped horn"?SPL = sound pressure level, usually measured in decibels. Tapped horns are much more efficient than direct radiator subwoofers, i.e., almost everything else on the market. Really large diameter drivers (18" and larger) or multiples of these large drivers are used by other manufacturers to increase their products' sensitivity, but a nice tapped horn design really makes the use of those large drivers obsolete, and the tapped horns produce a much tighter bass output that most people prefer to hear. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juxta Pose Posted November 4, 2009 Author Share Posted November 4, 2009 Thanks so much chris, I've been looking at diy stuff but couldn't find much useful info. I can't find these spud plans but found these tuba plans-www.billfitzmaurice.com/T48.html Ever heard of them? Could be worth the $14.95 the plans are sold at. I'm pretty good with my hands an some bass I'll work for! If so what would be a good driver, cost an performance considered? Could you also list off a few things to help me build a safer/better setup? Electronic cross over/limiter etc. I've got a mate at a sound hire shop so I can access pretty much anything untill I can afford to buy. Thanks again, you're a champion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juxta Pose Posted November 4, 2009 Author Share Posted November 4, 2009 Quick update...... Thinking now about these bill fitz maurice tuba 36's, and maybe an eminence definimax 4015LF(rms 700w) Any one know of either of these? Also keen for info on good sub amps, price and transport considered.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Thinking now about these bill fitz maurice tuba 36's, and maybe an eminence definimax 4015LF(rms 700w)...Any one know of either of these?Looks like what the doctor ordered...I haven't seen this company or his designs before, but $14.95 is a pretty low price in order to find out if it is the solution. Folded horn designs are also very good, albeit at a slightly larger size/weight than the tapped horns that I was discussing. FYI - there is a guy in your neck of the woods that has done tapped horn work/designs (diy.cowanaudio.com). Without the internals of the horn defined (i.e., as in looking at the plans), I'm not sure if the eminence driver good or not for the application. There is a freeware program called hornresp (http://www.dmcbean.bigblog.com.au/index.do) that can help you determine the frequency response of the completed unit with the driver that you identified, before you build it. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuyOtherSoundEquipment Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 since I love the bose sub which i beleive is closed and usually carries 3 inches. What is this Bose sub you speak of? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andypanda Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Actually meant 3 8inch woofers. The Acoustimass series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juxta Pose Posted November 4, 2009 Author Share Posted November 4, 2009 FYI - there is a guy in your neck of the woods that has done tapped horn work/designs (diy.cowanaudio.com). Yeah have heard of this Cowan guy, best get on to him an see if he minds giving me some time, thanks so much for your help guys! P.S. You've got one wild lounge Chris! Must be a dream to walk into that room... Good luck with the bose Andy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Must be a dream to walk into that room...Thanks Juxta--it's something that I look forward to each evening. The only deal is that not everyone likes it at the same volume [] . So I have to take advantage of those short moments when I'm the only one at home...Good luck on your subwoofer quest. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andypanda Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Tooshay Boomerang boy and good luck on your horn hunting (that's alliteration). I would never buy a bose in this or any of my reincarnated lives. I own a SVS PB2-ISD so I like my house shaken, not sturred. It's Bond....James Bond. DUUUNN! DUUUNN! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.