Modded Forte vs. what?

[dls123]

Hi all,

I have managed to purchase a pair of original Fortes in near mint condition. The previous owner just had too small a living room for them and is building his own speakers, but he liked them quite a bit. He is also a tube amp builder like me, and he did a very nice job modifying these Fortes. Here is his description of what he did:

"I completely rebuilt the crossovers with point to point
wiring using foil inductors (Goertz) in the tweeter circuit, heavy gauge air
core inductors (Erse) in the woofer circuit, Sonicaps in the mid and tweeter
circuit and Solen caps in the woofer circuit. I upgraded the autoformers in the
mid ("squawker") circuit to the Bob Crites models. I also replaced the tweeter
diaphragms with the new titanium versions (also Crites) which provide a less
peaky and more extended response and are universally considered to be
superior. I also soldered the connections at the speakers rather
than use the push-on connectors. The crossover is fairly simple, just rebuilt
using much higher quality components."

So, I have been listening to them for about a week and they are indeed very good. I have them in a large living room powered by a custom 6SN7 based preamp with full tube power supply and buffer stage, driving a fully restored Citation II with all the McShane kits (I am sort of his authorized installer). The Citation II is in triode with EI KT90 tubes - this is about as good as push pull gets. The combination is very good. While I have heard many horns I have never lived with any. It seems that maybe I could put spikes on them and maybe add a brace to the cabinet or line it with something, but these would yield sublte improvements. The speakers are very, very good, with very deep and contolled bass - that is what a Citation II does. So my question is this. Let us say that cost were no object within reason, but speaker size is - spousal acceptance factor, you know the drill. Is there a Klipsch model that would sound better than the modified original Fortes that I have. For example, would a pair of original Cornwalls sound better if I did all the Crites mods? Or would the general character be the same as the Fortes with perhaps just a bit more bass? I cannot put one of the huge models in my living room, not an option. I like the Fortes, just interested if there is something that is the next step up and not too much bigger. Maybe a tad better imaging or whatever. Clearly some of you have heard, lived with and modified many models. Or are these modified original Fortes about as good as the smaller Klipsch speakers get....? And they are good, I am not discounting them. Or perhaps an additional mod to these Fortes.... Any opinions will be read with interest! Fire away!

cheers,

Don

[aj01]

I like the midrange of the fortes and the bass of the cornwalls. I think if cost was no object and the footprint of a cornwall wasn't too big - I would look at something like this:

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/t/105447.aspx?PageIndex=10

[Frzninvt]

The Forte' is one of Klipsch's best balanced sounding speakers. The Forte' II added a larger 15" Passive radiator in the rear and a Tractix horn and with equivalent mods would certainly be a bit better but not by a huge margin. The Chorus or Chorus II are also certainly a bit more of a step up, and then there is the mighty Cornwall but I suggest listening to a pair prior to purchase to see if they meet your tastes. Then you can get into the DIY stuff like the Cornscala, DBB Cornscala, or a modified Cornwall with a GotHover Midhorn.

Do a search there are lots of opinions and reviews.

[dls123]

Thanks! Many jumping off points to read from. There is a pair of cornwalls for sale not too far away, but it is too soon. I can build anything if I can get my shop up and running again. Been focusing on tube amps the last few years.

cheers,

Don

[BE36]

Forte II will have just as much quality bass as Cornwalls if placed the correct distance from the back and side walls in a corner. The Cornwalls are more flexible on their location. Mod that I would have done if my wife did not like the looks of La Scalas so much would be to build a Fort Scala. Forte II Bass bin with JBL 2404 or Beyma tweeters and Mid Horn Greg's or one of the other forum members that is only 18 inches or less wide, this width could be placed on top of the Forte with doubler boards on the sides and would be taller than stock but only be a couple inches wider than stock. I have a small/narrow space with two corners that this would fit well. That combination with an ALK network with proper corner placement would run with just about any Klipsch or for that manner any speaker under $30,000 a pair. I have hours listening to all the top McIntosh, KEF, Paradigm and B&W speakers in addition to 5 different K-Horn setups 3 sets of cornwalls, owned Forte IIs for 15 years and have 1 pair of Heresy Is and a pair of Heresy IIs.

[SET12]

Hi all,

I have managed to purchase a pair of original Fortes in near mint condition. The previous owner just had too small a living room for them and is building his own speakers, but he liked them quite a bit. He is also a tube amp builder like me, and he did a very nice job modifying these Fortes. Here is his description of what he did:

"I completely rebuilt the crossovers with point to point wiring using foil inductors (Goertz) in the tweeter circuit, heavy gauge air core inductors (Erse) in the woofer circuit, Sonicaps in the mid and tweeter circuit and Solen caps in the woofer circuit. I upgraded the autoformers in the mid ("squawker") circuit to the Bob Crites models. I also replaced the tweeter diaphragms with the new titanium versions (also Writes) which provide a less peaky and more extended response and are universally considered to be superior. I also soldered the connections at the speakers rather than use the push-on connectors. The crossover is fairly simple, just rebuilt using much higher quality components."

So, I have been listening to them for about a week and they are indeed very good. I have them in a large living room powered by a custom 6SN7 based preamp with full tube power supply and buffer stage, driving a fully restored Citation II with all the McShane kits (I am sort of his authorized installer). The Citation II is in trade with EI KT90 tubes - this is about as good as push pull gets. The combination is very good. While I have heard many horns I have never lived with any. It seems that maybe I could put spikes on them and maybe add a brace to the cabinet or line it with something, but these would yield subtle improvements. The speakers are very, very good, with very deep and controlled bass - that is what a Citation II does. So my question is this. Let us say that cost were no object within reason, but speaker size is - spousal acceptance factor, you know the drill. Is there a Klipsch model that would sound better than the modified original Fortes that I have. For example, would a pair of original Cornwalls sound better if I did all the Crites mods? Or would the general character be the same as the Fortes with perhaps just a bit more bass? I cannot put one of the huge models in my living room, not an option. I like the Fortes, just interested if there is something that is the next step up and not too much bigger. Maybe a tad better imaging or whatever. Clearly some of you have heard, lived with and modified many models. Or are these modified original Fortes about as good as the smaller Klipsch speakers get....? And they are good, I am not discounting them. Or perhaps an additional mod to these Fortes.... Any opinions will be read with interest! Fire away!

cheers,

Don

Hi Don,

So, you said fire away!

While you certainly took your Fortes pretty far, I think you have only just scratched the surface of whats possible from them!

Especially in area of capacitors, While Sonicaps are a good cap they are by no means a final solution. You also don't specify what gauge you have used for your inductors which has been an amazing revelation in my own experience.

I can tell you mine are to the point of where they are competitive with any of the klipsch lines.

Here's some of my work.

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=159340&page=12

If you go to my last page you'll see the new Bob Crites replacement Midrange diaphragm's I guess bob has had them just a couple of weeks! mine should be here today or tomorrow at the latest and that has me really pumped as I like to say lately!

I have been doing some mods to my amplifiers as of late and I continue to be just astounded at what the Fortes can do in that they have created one of the largest sound stages I have ever heard for a speaker of its size, besides a lot of other good traits! such as a very high level of resolve, but the stage just has me beside myself. With my speakers about 9 ft apart I have a sound stage with many recordings that is as wide 25-30 ft, my listening wall is 18 ft wide and I sit 10 ft away.

If I had to do everything all over I'd start with a KLF20's I like their cosmetics and because their network is very similar in parts count to the Forte and of manageable values as to maintain the same quality of parts I am now using in the Fortes.

Cheers

SET12

[popbumper]

Aj01 wrote:

"I like the midrange of the fortes and the bass of the cornwalls"

So do I - which is why I built custom Cornwall cabinets with CNC'd motorboards that allowed me to use a Crites K33 woofer and the Forte Tweeter/Squawker. I had posted pics sometime back, somewhere - if I find them I will repost.

Just as a side note - the crossover is a K-stack for the standard Forte which is WRONG - the K33 woofer does not behave the same as the K23, and I have some rework to do there. Still, it sounds very good.

Chris

[popbumper]

See this thread for what I did as a hybrid between Forte and Cornwall ("CornForte" if you will):

http://community.klipsch.com/forums/p/85013/854991.aspx#854991

Chris

[rhing]

dls123, I replied to your thread on Audio Asylum's High Efficiency Speakers forum, but I'll reply here too. I have performed upgrades on my Forte IIs with Bob Crites' Titanium tweeter diaphragm upgrade and crossover repair kits. It sounds like your pair have some nicer extras than mine. These are some great balanced speakers from 35Hz and up in my modest listening room. If I had a larger room, the Forte IIs could probably go lower. Anyway, I would encourage you to work on optimizing the speaker placement and your room's acoustics. These Forte speakers image extremely well with a huge soundstage, and they have a relatively high efficiency that should easily fill your living room with a Citation II amp driving them. If you want to use spikes, use very short ones to keep the cabinet bases on the floor. I've experimented with elevating the cabinets, and so much bass energy is lost. These speakers are definitely floorstanders.